Alec Baldwin shooting: Lawyer suggests potential sabotage on ‘Rust’ set.

[HiFidFan]

Let's calm down a bit. No reason to get so passionate. This thread is about a legal case.

I agree with @KellenVancouver, all there is at this point is conjecture about what truly happened.

 

[sq225917]

There's a difference between shooting with friends and being handed a gun by the person legally responsible for gun safety on a film set.

 

[Helicopter]

I always check them, and have been surpised they were loaded several times, most recently in August.

 

[bunnyfuzz]

I wonder how many total deaths by “accident” have occurred on sets in Hollywood over time? Their profession “The Craft”, is, after all, making the unreal appear real. Wonder if they’re just as talented making the real appear “unreal”?

craft

krăft

noun​

1. Skill in doing or making something, as in the arts; proficiency. synonym: skill.
2. Skill in evasion or deception; guile.
3. An occupation or trade requiring manual dexterity or skilled artistry.
4. The practitioners of such an occupation or trade considered as a group.
5. A boat, ship, or aircraft.
6. Items made by craftspeople.

transitive verb​

1. To make or construct (something) with care or ingenuity.

 

[LTig]

This makes me think back to the Chernobyl series and how catastrophic accidents are almost always the consequence of a chain reaction of mistakes made on multiple levels. It seems a situation like the Rust incident might show a similar pattern.

Correct. It's the same in alpinism - most fatal accidents in the mountains result from a chain of mistakes, otherwise the number of alpinists would be much lower.

 

[Destination: Moon]

I wonder how many total deaths by “accident” have occurred on sets in Hollywood over time? Their profession is making the unreal appear real. Wonder if they’re just as talented making the real appear unreal?

A surprising amount of carnage. I don't understand the focus on only deaths. As with all shootings - not just on movie sets, It masks the extent of the problem and the extent of the harm done. And many, many more are psychologically injured in shootings, despite suffering no physical harm..... Here's an article about on set shootings. 43 deaths according to this

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2021/10/24/how-dangerous-film-sets-alec-baldwin-shooting/

 

[Gorgonzola]

For the the target practice they were reportedly doing the day before? Also, apparently some of the crew quit over lax safety protocol and negligent discharges prior. Sounds like everyone still around were aware.

There can be no excuses on account of the target practice. The armorer is still primarily to blame.

 

[jkasch]

Even if AB isn’t charged, he’ll get his ass sued from here to Kingdom Come in civil suits. I’d be surprised if he works again in the industry.

 

[HiFidFan]

Even if AB isn’t charged, he’ll get his ass sued from here to Kingdom Come in civil suits. I’d be surprised if he works again in the industry.

He'll work again if the industry deems him profitable. But he very well may not be.

 

[Fregly]

Even if AB isn’t charged, he’ll get his ass sued from here to Kingdom Come in civil suits. I’d be surprised if he works again in the industry.

A wealthy, politically connected Hollywood elite, with a PR firm muddying the waters, and a legal team creating deliberate confusion and diffusing culpability around the incident. Color me cynical.

 

[jkasch]

A wealthy, politically connected Hollywood elite, with a PR firm muddying the waters, and a legal team creating deliberate confusion and diffusing culpability around the incident. Color me cynical.

You might be right, but I think the Hollywood elite will throw him under the bus as they are quick to do these days. (a la Kevin Spacey) Time will tell.

 

[sq225917]

It's a legal matter the Hollywood elite won't get involved. There but for the grace of God...

 

[KellenVancouver]

I wonder how many total deaths by “accident” have occurred on sets in Hollywood over time?

The deadliest movie ever made was The Viking in 1931. 27 people died.

 

[RayDunzl]

List of film and television accidents - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[amirm]

List of film and television accidents - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Wow, what an incredible database of injuries. Had no idea so many people were hurt in so many movies.

 

[617]

This whole mess has transformed my semi-sleepy town of Santa Fe, so I stay inside.

At any rate, even if some sick person placed a live round in one of the guns, it is the armouer's responsibility to check all the rounds in the cylinder before handing off the firearm. I assume that dummy rounds lack a primer, and if so, spotting the difference should be relatively easy if someone is paying attention. That the gun got past two people who were supposed to inspect it is unforgivable.

The armourer and the ADs careers are thankfully over.

Yeah there are certain jobs where your compensation is based almost completely on accepting liability and I suspect this is one of them.

 

[617]

Also, setting aside what Baldwin should have done, what are actual legal responsibilities for handling guns in this context?

I am familiar with the 'laws' that gun enthusiasts memorize; don't point guns at people, assume gun is loaded, etc.

Are actors legally required to undergo training before handling firearms? Presumably not in New Mexico, since a state senator has only just introduced a bill mandating it. Is it against the law to point a firearm at someone without the intent to intimidate (the legal requirement for 'brandishing') There is clearly no intent to intimidate here.

Baldwin is possibly guilty of running a movie production so shoddily that injury risk was elevated, but I am failing to see what possible laws he actually broke. He didn't intend to kill anyone, and he hired someone to ensure the harmlessness of the weapons on set.

Involuntary manslaughter is a complex crime to define, but my understanding is that it requires someone to die due to negligence or recklessness. Given that there was a paid armorer on site, I don't see the argument for this charge to be particularly strong.

My prediction is that the armorer may face charges of negligence depending on the contractually defined expectations of their job, they will be unlikely to work in that capacity ever again. Baldwin will endure elevated levels of scorn.

I'm sorry but I can't see how this is anything more than an incredibly stupid workplace accident. OSHA regulations cover movie sets, but again, what OSHA regulation was violated?

 

[amirm]

Baldwin is possibly guilty of running a movie production so shoddily that injury risk was elevated, but I am failing to see what possible laws he actually broke. He didn't intend to kill anyone, and he hired someone to ensure the harmlessness of the weapons on set.

That is my thought. To the extent there are experts hired to make sure things are safe, then there should be no liability for the actor. What if the loaded gun was sitting somewhere and a kid picked it up and shot someone? That guilt then squarely lands on the shoulders of whoever loaded that gun.

 

[Blumlein 88]

That is my thought. To the extent there are experts hired to make sure things are safe, then there should be no liability for the actor. What if the loaded gun was sitting somewhere and a kid picked it up and shot someone? That guilt then squarely lands on the shoulders of whoever loaded that gun.

I think the difference is Baldwin was also a co-producer. If only an actor, he probably is in the clear. As a producer who had a say in hiring people, and various other aspects that may have contributed to an unsafe climate cutting corners on safety he might be liable in some other ways. The assistant director who handed Baldwin the pistol had been fired from the previous film he worked on due to an accidental firearm discharge that fortunately didn't injure anyone permanently. The person they hired for handling firearm safety was somewhat inexperienced and clearly didn't do the things that is normal practice for safety checks. All of which could put that person and producers of the film at some additional liability. I'm no lawyer so don't know how far any of that would go. It is possible however since he was not just a hired actor.

 

[amirm]

Wouldn't anyone who would know anything about guns know not to put a live bullet in a gun? And to check for the same? Surely you don't need to look high and low to find someone and pay them for that job.