Alec Baldwin shooting: Lawyer suggests potential sabotage on ‘Rust’ set.

[Doodski]

That last sentence is not credible.

About the grains of powder in the shell? I have heard it but it's not really noisy.

 

[Blumlein 88]

About the grains of powder in the shell? I have heard it but it's not really noisy.

Yes, in a large cartridge like the 45 long colt which will not need a full powder charge with modern powder it can make a sound though not very loud. Also nothing like even 1 bb in an empty. If she had trouble with those two she was incompetent.

 

[Petrushka]

45 long Colt rounds. You may notice the length of the brass. Single BB in place of powder will make a noticeable rattle when shaken. No rattle may mean a live round and call for stopping action to investigate further.

I guess my big question would be, WTF were live rounds doing on the set, and why wouldn’t their presence generate a higher level of caution? The word cowboy used to connote an emotionally stunted overgrown child. A western made by real cowboys.

 

[Sal1950]

And if it was not a gun, but a sword, what then?
How about a hand grenade?
How many know how to handle those?
People with personal experiences with guns, are looking at this in a wrong light.
There was no gun. Without live rounds, a gun is just a harmless prop! Just wood and metal.
all and any of those precautions, become irrelevant,

Agreed. Although a case might be made that Baldwin didn't provide due-diligence for not checking the weapon, it was the idiot that handed him a real loaded gun on the set that is most responsible. As I stated earlier,

Someone, if not a number of people here, are guilty of either first degree, premeditated murder, or reckless homicide.

So either someone planned to murder that actor ?, or it was so stupid a mistake that someone should be criminally responsible?
After a 100 years of movie filming I would think there should have been some reasonable safety measures in place?
This ?accident? is stupid beyond belief.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

I guess my big question would be, WTF were live rounds doing on the set, and why wouldn’t their presence generate a higher level of caution?

Now you are making sense!
Live rounds presence on the set, is the issue, was the issue, the only issue.
If it can be proven or shown that Baldwin had any reason to suspect that live rounds could have been anywhere on the set, then he becomes answerable, as to why the set was not immediately shutdown, or all weapons not double inspected.
Otherwise, he is not guilty in my opinion.
I know, nothing of the law, but do know, that laws are sensible, or they would not last.

 

[Bob from Florida]

I guess my big question would be, WTF were live rounds doing on the set, and why wouldn’t their presence generate a higher level of caution? The word cowboy used to connote an emotionally stunted overgrown child. A western made by real cowboys.

I thought that question was already answered. Live rounds were around because there was some target practice during breaks. Which, if it can be proved that Alec - quick draw - Baldwin participated in shooting at shit in the desert.... That would not cast a favorable light on his defense.

 

[Petrushka]

Now you are making sense!
Live rounds presence on the set, is the issue, was the issue, the only issue.
If it can be proven or shown that Baldwin had any reason to suspect that live rounds could have been anywhere on the set, then he becomes answerable, as to why the set was not immediately shutdown, or all weapons not double inspected.
Otherwise, he is not guilty in my opinion.
I know, nothing of the law, but do know, that laws are sensible, or they would not last.

This trial is about Baldwin’s state of mind.

There are at least three elements required to find guilt

He aimed at a person.
He pulled the trigger
He was aware that he was handling a deadly weapon and failed to take appropriate precautions.

The first is undisputed.
The second is partially disputed. I say partially, because he would have to take the stand. I doubt he will.
The third is disputed, and this is where the jury earns its big bucks.

 

[Petrushka]

I thought that question was already answered. Live rounds were around because there was some target practice during breaks. Which, if it can be proved that Alec - quick draw - Baldwin participated in shooting at shit in the desert.... That would not cast a favorable light on his defense.

His state of mind is the issue to be decided by the jury.

 

[Sal1950]

I thought that question was already answered. Live rounds were around because there was some target practice during breaks. Which, if it can be proved that Alec - quick draw - Baldwin participated in shooting at shit in the desert.... That would not cast a favorable light on his defense.

Now there we have the big question, why and who allowed it?
Most probably a repercussion of the cockeyed CA gun laws and being on-set is one of the few options those there have an opportunity to shoot them. Untrained, inexperienced weapon handling is a recipe for a tragedy.

 

[Bob from Florida]

His state of mind is the issue to be decided by the jury.

True, but OJ Simpson got away with something more serious courtesy of a jury.

 

[Petrushka]

Now there we have the big question, why and who allowed it?
Most probably a repercussion of the cockeyed CA gun laws and being on-set is one of the few options those there have an opportunity to shoot them. Untrained, inexperienced weapon handling is a recipe for a tragedy.

I’m going to state my meanest, nastiest thought and leave the discussion. There’s a thing called punitive damages. It goes beyond compensation for an injury. It’s purpose is to raise the stakes for bad behavior and hopefully, prevent it.

Even with a not guilty verdict, this trial sends a message and calls attention to bad behavior. If it doesn’t stop on set gun horseplay, then Hollywood is hopeless.

 

[Petrushka]

True, but OJ Simpson got away with something more serious courtesy of a jury.

There’s a separate but equal justice system for the rich and famous. A poor person would feel lucky to get a plea with no jail time.

Florida is considered a gun happy state, but a Florida woman got three years for firing a warning shot. Her ex-husband, having a restraining order, broke into her house, and she fired a shot into the ceiling.

Warning shots are illegal in Florida.

 

[Sal1950]

True, but OJ Simpson got away with something more serious courtesy of a jury.

How very sad that was.

then Hollywood is hopeless

We already knew that.

Warning shots are illegal in Florida.

He was already on a restraining order, She should have shot him! No Problem
Warning shots have no idea who might be on the receiving end.

 

[Bob from Florida]

He was already on a restraining order, She should have shot him! No Problem
Warning shots have no idea who might be on the receiving end.

Exactly correct. Warning shots are a waste of ammo and a danger to bystanders. Especially in that situation.

 

[EJ3]

Handling guns on sets does not bring an actor any kind of expertise

Failure to know the law has nothing to do with the law being broken.

Not knowing the speed limit in an area does not exempt you from a speed limit ticket if you were speeding.

It's a special circumstance (it's not cut and dry): which is why there is a trial.

To figure out the non-binary nature of this special circumstance.

 

[EJ3]

Check out how similar the live and dummy rounds are with the only distinction being the more flattened tops one vs the other:
View attachment 380441

How would an actor be able to tell such a difference?

And if it is already in the revolver's cylinder: I am pretty sure "no one" is the correct answer.

 

[Moonbase]

I can safely say Ive never seen dummy rounds like the ones above, they have always been with pinched heads.

An actor should check the gun on being handed it and if not sure ask. I cant see there ever reason point a gun at anyone. Changing camera angles etc can be used to make it look realistic.

 

[Duke]

True, but OJ Simpson got away with something more serious courtesy of a jury.

How very sad that was.

[tangent] I know the public's consensus is that OJ got away with murder, and I thought so too, but now I think the evidence just wasn't there.

Ron Goldman was a black belt in karate, and his knuckles were bruised and lacerated. He had obviously landed multiple powerful blows on his assailant, but OJ had no marks or injuries indicative of having been in a fight. Imo that's grounds for reasonable doubt.

See the book at this link. The author, private investigator William Dear, makes the case that it was OJ's oldest son Jason, whose alibi was apparently a false statement from a co-worker and who kept out of sight for a few days presumably while his face healed up:

Amazon.com

[/tangent]

 

[Groove01]

Baldwin didn't provide due-diligence for not checking the weapon

An actor should check the gun on being handed it and if not sure ask.

This point has been brought up multiple times throughout this thread. I think on the surface it might make sense, but in what should be very controlled environment with tight safety protocols, and a documented chain of custody- I don’t think it’s realistic.

Once a gun (or anything for that matter) has been “certified” safe by the expert. Does it make sense to have the actor open the weapon, remove and inspect rounds, and then rechamber them? Could the armorer still deem that gun safe after someone else has de-chambered and then re-chambered rounds.

That just would not make sense to me at all. The weapon has been tampered with by a non-expert after being certified safe.

 

[Petrushka]

This point has been brought up multiple times throughout this thread. I think on the surface it might make sense, but in what should be very controlled environment with tight safety protocols, and a documented chain of custody- I don’t think it’s realistic.

Once a gun (or anything for that matter) has been “certified” safe by the expert. Does it make sense to have the actor open the weapon, remove and inspect rounds, and then rechamber them? Could the armorer still deem that gun safe after someone else has de-chambered and then re-chambered rounds.

That just would not make sense to me at all. The weapon has been tampered with by a non-expert after being certified safe.

The whole set was incompetent with regard to safety. Horsing around with a real gun is inexcusable. Firing a blank at a person is inexcusable. Blanks are not harmless.