Alec Baldwin shooting: Lawyer suggests potential sabotage on ‘Rust’ set.

[amirm]

One of the "funny" things that happened in the trial was defense witness who claimed to have essentially been born with guns. He had brought guns similar to ones used in the movie. After he pulls them out, the judge stops the trial and says to him that everyone is nervous because no one had checked that the guns were empty. Attorneys come to the judge to discuss and the witness literally points to gun at the Jude as he went on trying to explain what he was doing! A deputy was standing next to him and immediately pulled the barrel of the gun down toward the floor. I am sure at that point the attorney and client figured out they had flushed a ton of money down the drain with this guy!

 

[Timcognito]

One of the "funny" things that happened in the trial was defense witness who claimed to have essentially been born with guns. He had brought guns similar to ones used in the movie. After he pulls them out, the judge stops the trial and says to him that everyone is nervous because no one had checked that the guns were empty. Attorneys come to the judge to discuss and the witness literally points to gun at the Jude as he went on trying to explain what he was doing! A deputy was standing next to him and immediately pulled the barrel of the gun down toward the floor. I am sure at that point the attorney and client figured out they had flushed a ton of money down the drain with this guy!

Now that's irony. Wow how could that even happen in this case.

 

[Doodski]

A similar situation is what killed Brandon Lee. During filming, a primer-only load was used in one of the scenes. The primer alone was enough pressure to push the bullet out of the brass into the barrel where it remained. Later, they used the same gun in a scene that required firing blanks. The armorer loaded it with blanks but did not check the barrel was clear. The pressure from blank cartridge fired the bullet remaining in the barrel and killed him.

At least 2 negligent mistakes:
1. The armorer should have checked the rounds removed from the revolver and noticed one was missing its bullet.
2. The armorer should have checked the barrel was clear while preparing the revolver for further filming.

Yes, that seems very plausible and is very concerning. I have used bullet primers as small explosives. They go off with force and make for some interesting hand held stuff. A bullet with the lead removed and then igniting the powder results in a flame show and then when the primer went off it made a nice explosion. I know this from back in my pre-teens days when I was experimenting when the parents where off to the lake fishing or visiting in-town. Then me and my best friend where experimenting with engine starting fluid vapor and making explosives and with oxy-acetylene cutting torch gas mixtures injected into foam milkshake containers and we even used ice cream pails that we would fill with the oxy-acetylene mixture and make fuses from tissue paper. What a bang! We where setting off these gas mixture explosives one night when we where resting from working on our dirt bikes for some hours. and.... it gets kind of funny/ridiculous but shows what can happen.>>> A friend from grade school was a classmate of mine when I attended a college level technical drafting study and he was talking about a night years and years earlier when there was what he thought gunfire outside his home and he and his parents where reallly reallly scared and thought it was a family enemy discharging a rifle outside their home. He said that they closed all the curtains, turned out most of the lights, where terrified and called the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and reported this and the coppers attended their home to take a complaint. He was laughing and chuckling when I told him it was me and my best friend making oxy-acetylene explosives at about the age of 10 or 11. He said he could not wait to get home and tell his parents the good news that it was simply me and my buddy making explosives. So... A couple of pre-teens mucking about with stuff can create a chain reaction the proportions of which could be pretty serious and never even know that did that. Another lesson learned from my youth.

 

[amirm]

Found a video clip of it:

 

[Doodski]

One of the "funny" things that happened in the trial was defense witness who claimed to have essentially been born with guns. He had brought guns similar to ones used in the movie. After he pulls them out, the judge stops the trial and says to him that everyone is nervous because no one had checked that the guns were empty. Attorneys come to the judge to discuss and the witness literally points to gun at the Jude as he went on trying to explain what he was doing! A deputy was standing next to him and immediately pulled the barrel of the gun down toward the floor. I am sure at that point the attorney and client figured out they had flushed a ton of money down the drain with this guy!

I am not religious but I immediately stated, Oh my God! and Holy Crap! That is outrageous.

 

[MRC01]

... I have used bullet primers as small explosives. They go off with force and make for some interesting hand held stuff. ... it was simply me and my buddy making explosives. So... A couple of pre-teens mucking about with stuff can create a chain reaction the proportions of which could be pretty serious and never even know that did that. Another lesson learned from my youth.

As someone born in the 1960s, I resemble that and sometimes wonder that we survived our "free range" upbringing. That's not a bad thing. My wife and I made sure to raise my daughter in a similar way.

 

[amirm]

I think Alec Baldwin has some issues facing him in his trial:

1. Defense brought OSHA (safety regulators in US) saying they fined the company the maximum they could for not having proper safety.

2. He seemed to run things on his own. In one of the shots, pun intended, the director calls "cut" but Alec goes on to shoot again while demanding to be reloaded to keep going.

3. SAG Union rules apparently stipulate that the actor himself must examine the gun before using it.

4. When the accident happened, it was during the planning of a shot and there was no reason to point the gun at anybody. And that even if they were recording the actual movie, there was nothing in the script about him doing this.

Given this, I think it is proper for him to get sentenced to something as to get others to follow the best safety practices. It doesn't have to be much, and can even be probation but I think this is merited.

 

[Doodski]

I think Alec Baldwin has some issues facing him in his trial:

1. Defense brought OSHA (safety regulators in US) saying they fined the company the maximum they could for not having proper safety.

2. He seemed to run things on his own. In one of the shots, pun intended, the director calls "cut" but Alec goes on to shoot again while demanding to be reloaded to keep going.

3. SAG Union rules apparently stipulate that the actor himself must examine the gun before using it.

4. When the accident happened, it was during the planning of a shot and there was no reason to point the gun at anybody. And that even if they were recording the actual movie, there was nothing in the script about him doing this.

Given this, I think it is proper for him to get sentenced to something as to get others to follow the best safety practices. It doesn't have to be much, and can even be probation but I think this is merited.

To indicate the absurdity of what happens. I worked with a guy for several years and he became a best friend. He is albino and legally blind. I had not seen him for several months because I was a workaholic working >70 hours per week for years and we got together for a evening of pints and snooker at the legion. He was telling me that he took up guns and was even @ home reloading his 9mm Beretta shells and really wanted a Desert Eagle handgun. He said he had the barrel of the 9mm Beretta replaced because he was cramming too much gun powder into the reloads and fractured/split the barrel. He said he was using the gun club outdoor range for months before they realized he's legally blind and removed/escorted him from the gun range. I was boggled with the stupidity of all of it and told him to never ever do something like that again.

 

[Blumlein 88]

The idea the actor should check the weapon themselves is a bit muddied. SAG came out with a statement saying actors are not expected to check a firearm. That is the primary responsibility of the professional armorer and the property master. The property master is supposed to keep firearms and ammo locked in a safe when not in use on the set.

Yet SAG guidelines say actors should be shown and follow all safety rules including never pointing a firearm at someone. Older guidelines included the actor seeing a firearm test fired before filming or being able to request a test firing or perform a test fire had one not been witnessed. That language was modified since then.

Also the way Brandon Lee was killed as I recall it was they were using blanks which fire a cap with no bullet in place. Thinking it was safe he pointed it at his head and fired in some sort of joking around. Blanks at close range have enough pressure to be dangerous and deadly.

{I misremembered the Brandon Lee case. Here is the correct account of what happened in the latter half of this web page
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/why-blank-ammo-can-be-deadly/}

Here is the SAG statement from about 1 year ago.

SAG-AFTRA Statement on 'Rust' Charges

News

www.sagaftra.org

Now I'll add were I an actor then I would have to confirm the safety of the firearm personally or I would not continue. But that doesn't mean that is how it is done on movie sets.

And the actions of the "expert witness" shown above are beyond belief. What in the world was he thinking?

 

[Doodski]

The idea the actor should check the weapon themselves is a bit muddied. SAG came out with a statement saying actors are not expected to check a firearm. That is the primary responsibility of the professional armorer and the property master. The property master is supposed to keep firearms and ammo locked in a safe when not in use on the set.

Yet SAG guidelines say actors should be shown and follow all safety rules including never pointing a firearm at someone. Older guidelines included the actor seeing a firearm test fired before filming or being able to request a test firing or perform a test fire had one not been witnessed. That language was modified since then.

Also the way Brandon Lee was killed as I recall it was they were using blanks which fire a cap with no bullet in place. Thinking it was safe he pointed it at his head and fired in some sort of joking around. Blanks at close range have enough pressure to be dangerous and deadly.

Here is the SAG statement from about 1 year ago.

SAG-AFTRA Statement on 'Rust' Charges

News

www.sagaftra.org

Now I'll add were I an actor then I would have to confirm the safety of the firearm personally or I would not continue. But that doesn't mean that is how it is done on movie sets.

And the actions of the "expert witness" shown above are beyond belief. What in the world was he thinking?

I read that a gun can create about 14KPSI to about 20KPSI in the barrel and so yes that could be deadly.

 

[Doodski]

and... @Blumlein 88 When butchering the farm pigs I used a 22 long rifle when shooting them between the eyes and up the forehead a little to get the brain. To experiment I was shooting a already dead pig with the 22 long in the fatty soft fleshy area at close range to see if there was discharge gas damage and yes there was for sure.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I read that a gun can create about 14KPSI to about 20KPSI in the barrel and so yes that could be deadly.

My memory of the Brandon Lee case was wrong and I conflated it with another actor death from earlier on another movie. Here is the full explanation for Brandon Lee which was a series of mishaps and once again nobody checking what they were doing or checking the barrel.

Why Blank Ammo Can Be Deadly - Lucky Gunner Lounge

How blank ammo works, why it's dangerous, and what part blanks played in three separate gun-related deaths in the movie industry.

www.luckygunner.com

 

[MRC01]

My memory of the Brandon Lee case was wrong and I conflated it with another actor death from earlier on another movie. Here is the full explanation for Brandon Lee which was a series of mishaps and once again nobody checking what they were doing or checking the barrel. ...

That is also consistent with the description on Wikipedia, and what I mentioned earlier, which I learned about in a firearms training class.

 

[AdamG]

Found a video clip of it:

He broke every safety rule in the book in under 60 seconds. He mishandled the revolver. He muzzle flashed the Judge and a dozen or so court attendees. In that video he never released the cylinder magazine and opened and inspected to visually inspected the handgun to be certain it was completely and fully unloaded and safe. So many safety violations by their “Expert”. How did he get past Court House Security? He just walked in with a bag full of handguns? Was this a Saturday Night Live Skit?

Even when you go to a gun range to shoot. You have to check in and they will conduct a visual inspection to make sure you have “Empty Chamber Indicators” in every gun you come in with. Like this:

Weapons expert my ass. His actions and gun handling behavior should be used by the Prosecution as additional evidence of how reckless and negligent the defendant is when it comes to weapons safety and proper handling behavior. I believe that bringing any functional firearm into a Courthouse without checking the weapons in as evidence and properly unloaded and secured is a crime and possibly a felony.

 

[Ron Party]

This is not a case for monetary damages where the claimant must prove their case by a preponderance of the evidence, i.e., 50.1% (so to speak). Instead this is a criminal case where the defendant is presumed innocent and the prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt the defendant committed the crime. Beyond a reasonable doubt? No 2 reasonable people could disagree? Hmmm....

It is my understanding he was indicted on a charge of involuntary manslaughter. I don't know if that is what he is being charged with or whether he is being charged with other crimes as well. On the charge of involuntary manslaughter, New Mexico law reads:

Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection.

New Mexico law requires criminal negligence (and not civil negligence) when assessing "without due caution and circumspection."

We don't know what the evidence will be, but in a vacuum I think beyond a reasonable doubt is a tall mountain to climb.

 

[Doodski]

He broke every safety rule in the book in under 60 seconds. He mishandled the revolver. He muzzle flashed the Judge and a dozen or so court attendees. In that video he never released the cylinder magazine and opened and inspected to visually inspected the handgun to be certain it was completely and fully unloaded and safe. So many safety violations by their “Expert”. How did he get past Court House Security? He just walked in with a bag full of handguns? Was this a Saturday Night Live Skit?

Even when you go to a gun range to shoot. You have to check in and they will conduct a visual inspection to make sure you have “Empty Chamber Indicators” in every gun you come in with. Like this:

View attachment 354886

Weapons expert my ass. His actions and gun handling behavior should be used by the Prosecution as additional evidence of how reckless and negligent the defendant is when it comes to weapons safety and proper handling behavior. I believe that bringing any functional firearm into a Courthouse without checking the weapons in as evidence and properly unloaded and secured is a crime and possibly a felony.

I was flabbergasted and repulsed with his manner and operation of handling the stuff. Really dumb!

 

[AdamG]

I was flabbergasted and repulsed with his manner and operation of handling the stuff. Really dumb!

If they choose that Guy as their Star Expert in Safe Weapons Handling. The Prosecution can show this video on a wall projector and say “Case Closed, the Prosecution rests. This has to be one of the dumbest in court moments ever and is a close tie with the glove and OJ Simpson.

I’m calling it early. Guilty! Alec Baldwin is going to jail where he can “Method” prepare to play himself in the future Movie about this sad story. Because he couldn’t be bothered to learn how to safely and properly handle firearms and negligently killed Halyna Hutchins. She was 42 years young and left behind a Husband and a 10 year old Son. All because he was too lazy to properly learn the skill set of safe weapons handling and a belief that he is above the law and part of the Hollywood elite.

There is no such thing as an “accidental discharge”. There are only “Negligent Discharges” and “Weapon malfunction” where the gun can be proven to have discharged on its own without any human contact or interaction. The latter being as rare as Unicorns and Cables that alter the sound. Can’t wait for the GoFund Me effort to fund Alec’s Jailhouse Commissary account. Hope he likes Ramen noodles and the smell of “sweaty man feet” saturating every breath he takes.

 

[Doodski]

There is no such thing as an “accidental discharge”.

As I mentioned earlier in a previous comment that I was always raised to have consequences for bad judgement, preventable errors, not acknowledging authority and to follow orders or face repercussions that included pain (But not grounding for some reason.) in the form of punishment or in the case of when at the armory and not following orders properly it was being forced to endure severe stress, being outed and losing privileges as well as some really nasty long duration parade maneuvers or standing at attention for extended periods of time as punishment and this, "Accidental discharge" reeks of denial from somebody that has no discipline or respect and is also rooted in sanitization of the facts.

 

[KellenVancouver]

There seems to be some confusion about what was supposed to be fired on the Rust set. Most newspaper articles refer to the gun as having "dummy" ammunition, but it appears the Rust set intended to use blanks, not dummies. Huge difference. A dummy round is intended for training muscle control when firing a weapon (e.g., smooth trigger pull) while protecting the pin, and has absolutely nothing in it which can fire, no primer, no powder. Thus a dummy round is referred to as "inert." A blank round, on the other hand, has a primer and may include a very small amount of powder so that it does actually fire. Blank rounds are used to provide a more realistic training experience, but do not include a projectile* (i.e., bullet) like a live round would. That does not mean blank rounds are entirely safe. Since blank rounds actually fire there can be burnt residue emitted out of the barrel that could wound someone's eye, for example. As many previous posters have commented, ALL firearms MUST be handled as if loaded with live ammunition, but if indeed the Rust set was using blank ammo, not dummy ammo, then this simple rule was even more important because those rounds had hazardous potential regardless. There is never an excuse for unsafe handling of a gun, but if blank ammunition was being used on that set instead of dummy ammunition, there is at least an exclamation mark on the cavalier way that Baldwin handled the firearm he was responsible for.

*In rare instances blank rounds may be made with a projectile. Typically, that would be a small piece of paper or plastic which is intended to mark a target when the round is fired, but the projectile is considered nonlethal if it strikes a person.