AKM vs ESS

[JSmith]

It is usually a missed opportunity for the poster, because he sticks to his subjective assessment

Yeah, but... the poster who commented has been a member since 2019, so there's that.


JSmith

 

[mk05]

One has a built-in headphone amp the other does not.
The chipset used is of no real importance but is used as a sales argument.
Measurements of both devices are far, far below any audible thresholds (and too close) to make any audible difference when using a 'proper' reconstruction filter at 44.1kHz.

Hey! I don't listen to headphones, so the only "differentiator" left - at least to me who has not paid attention to advances in audio tech for past several years - was just ESS vs AKM chipset. It has been about 4 years since I purchased SMSL SU-8s, so I wasn't sure if there were new "breakthroughs." I remember back when I was buying a DAC, ASR was going through a discovery phase of the ESS hump, and I had waited until they fixed it.

most of the tradeoffs have been dealt with to the point that they will not be audible...buy the one that's cheaper

Thanks, this is pretty much what I figured at this point of tech advancement. I can't seem to point why I'd spend $200 more for the AKM chip (for my very basic needs). A member told me to wait for the dx5 ii if I can, since it has PEQ controls. That seems like a feature that would be worth spending more on.

Comparing two DACs without controls is like comparing two brands of distilled water, and then pretending one tastes better than the other.

What are these controls? Could you explain, I don't have an engineering degree. I'm just here to learn what's new out there now.

 

[solderdude]

What are these controls?

1: level matched outputs within 1% (0.1dB) requires test equipment (could be as easy as an ADC input).
2: blind testing (so you don't know which DAC is playing). For this you need someone to assist you and (randomly) swap (or not swap) outputs of 2 DACs.
There can't be any 'tells' (like a relay clicking or other sounds giving away which is playing)
3: statistical relevant amount of 'switches' say 20x . Preferably spread over periods of 5 attempts with 'rest' in between.

 

[voodooless]

What are these controls? Could you explain, I don't have an engineering degree. I'm just here to learn what's new out there now.

Controls are mechanisms to minimize bias. The most important one is to make sure that the output voltages of the devices precisely match. Volume is an important metric because our hearing is not linear with volume. So any difference, even small ones, will yield subtle differences in tonality that are not the result of differences in DACs.

Another important one is no peeking. The fact that you know what DAC is playing influences your judgement, and there is nothing you can do about it.

 

[mk05]

output voltages of the devices precisely match.

I don't know if I can run those tests since I don't have the tools/know how to do that. I assume matching volume in the beginning via test tone with a decibel meter is not enough?

 

[voodooless]

I assume matching volume in the beginning via test tone with a decibel meter is not enough?

Nope, it’s not. We’ve had multiple instances here at ASR that showed that a dB meter is not good enough. Do you have a DMM? If so, you have all the tools you need.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

Nope, it’s not. We’ve had multiple instances here at ASR that showed that a dB meter is not good enough. Do you have a DMM? If so, you have all the tools you need.

DMM = Digital Multimeter. There are other threads that provide detail on how close the voltages need to match for it to be a valid test, since even a very tiny bit louder will bias the outcome. (I'd post that number, but I don't remember it and don't want to risk adding wrong info.)

 

[mk05]

DMM = Digital Multimeter. There are other threads that provide detail on how close the voltages need to match for it to be a valid test, since even a very tiny bit louder will bias the outcome. (I'd post that number, but I don't remember it and don't want to risk adding wrong info.)

Thank you for that. I was sweating over here looking up Direct Metal Mastering.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

... since it has PEQ controls. That seems like a feature that would be worth spending more on.

This is the key! Once quality DACs are being used (i.e., no measurable audio difference within range of human hearing, effective choice of filters, correct firmware settings, etc.), the decision is now driven by the features, build quality, anticipated reliability, support policies, price, form factor, etc. rather than the DAC or OPAMP chipset itself.

 

[kemmler3D]

member told me to wait for the dx5 ii if I can, since it has PEQ controls. That seems like a feature that would be worth spending more on.

Pretty worth it if you're not primarily using a PC as your source, yeah! Otherwise you can run EQ there, that's what I do on my DX5.

 

[mk05]

I think you guys have sold me on waiting . This new DAC will be connected to my TV and phones mostly, so the PEQ feature will be nice to have. Until now, the rew and dirac sounded like a "nice to have," but I had no hardware/software for application. Would I be able to make changes for room modes and whatnot with this feature

 

[kemmler3D]

Would I be able to make changes for room modes and whatnot with this feature

Yep, basically you do your measurements with REW, generate an EQ curve, then copy the EQ settings to the DAC. For speakers and especially if you have a sub it can be pretty night and day. I do my EQ in the living room with a WiiM Pro but I'm using active speakers with digital input so I don't need any DAC functions on top of that.

 

[GabrielPhoto]

Uh huh...


JSmith

 

[JSmith]

View attachment 460353

... this should be the default meme when people post subjective nonsense at ASR.


JSmith

 

[GabrielPhoto]

View attachment 460369

... this should be the default meme when people post subjective nonsense at ASR.


JSmith

Thanks lol

 

[fritobugger]

Why would that difference matter to you?

Do the ESS still pop when the bit rate changes from song to song?

 

[Chrispy]

Just looked at SMSL RAW DAC1 vs RAW MQD1 (and Topping dx5 ii). Looks like the only difference that would matter to me at the moment is the AK4499ex vs ES9039Q2M chiset. Are there differences/benefits/tradeoffs at this point?

This a diy project?

 

[Westsounds]

Don't worry about it, get the best deal

 

[Mike_Trueman]

These days they are selling DAC's where you can replace the chipset module. (AKM, ESS, Burr Brown, ...)
So you tell me that you can not hear a difference with headphones between a Burr Brown and ESS chipset?
They are selling fantasy and dreams?

Example:

 

[solderdude]

These days they are selling DAC's where you can replace the chipset module. (AKM, ESS, Burr Brown, ...)
So you tell me that you can not hear a difference with headphones between a Burr Brown and ESS chipset?
They are selling fantasy and dreams?

Example:

View attachment 467193

Before any of us can say anything meaningful ....

A: these modules need to be measured in that device
B: Is the output level the same (within 1% = 0.1dB)
C: Is the existence of a 'sound' verified with properly controlled blind tests.

until then ... it all falls in the 'subjective found differences / marketing' bin.