AKM is DEAD!

[Lossless]

Thread 'AKM new flagship AK4191 + AK4499EX' https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/akm-new-flagship-ak4191-ak4499ex.38702/

Unfortunately that thread is mostly marketing hype from the manufacturer.

 

[virtua]

Did I say “AKM is out of business”? NO I did NOT. The old AKM chips we used to know are history.
Would you want your Bugatti made in an GM factory?

I don't really think it matters which fab the chip comes from. If not having your own fab was a measure of success, I don't think AMD would be doing so well, since they are getting all their chips from TSMC. There's a lot of reasons why a smaller scale semiconductor company might not choose to run their own fab, it may be more efficient for them to outsource chip production and ultimately it doesn't change their designs - if anything they're likely able to design for more advanced lithography than what they'd be capable of with their own fab as larger fabs will have access to that technology they otherwise wouldn't.

 

[TonyJZX]

Correct, you said AKM is "dead". It is a bit inflammatory, would be good to acknowledge and move on!
Can you tell me what process technology these new chips are fabricated on? I would particularly like to know what the metal stack is, and the packaging, because that matters with respect to pinout.
Also, you are comparing a 4-channel DAC to a stereo DAC so that makes this a pretty apples to oranges comparison for pincount.
And, can you point exactly where the architectural differences that lead to degraded performance are on those block diagrams? I'm not seeing it. The product brief contains very little detail, which is pretty typical of product briefs, and the block diagram rendering is not useful to compare.

i think mores the point is that... does this have a measureable effect on performance

he didnt seem to make such a point... the implication may be there

as i say..... there may be some avenues worth looking into but OP clearly does not have the technical knowledge nor the art of the argument to make such a point

instead he's a monkey jumping up and down screaming "AKM is DAED"

 

[Geert]

Unfortunately that thread is mostly marketing hype from the manufacturer.

The diagram explains the DAC chip is now split into 2 separate chips, hence less blocks/pins in the new chips.

 

[oleg87]

I don't really think it matters which fab the chip comes from. If not having your own fab was a measure of success, I don't think AMD would be doing so well, since they are getting all their chips from TSMC. There's a lot of reasons why a smaller scale semiconductor company might not choose to run their own fab, it may be more efficient for them to outsource chip production and ultimately it doesn't change their designs - if anything they're likely able to design for more advanced lithography than what they'd be capable of with their own fab as larger fabs will have access to that technology they otherwise wouldn't.

Well, for specialized analog/more exotic stuff, you often want a customized process. No real reason AKM couldn't collaborate with a 3rd party fab for that though, chip companies do it all the time.

 

[sq225917]

.....Sadly the audiophile industry still has dishonest snake-oil sales teams who’s only intention seems to be to upsell their products.

Your final sentence pretty much sums up your entire post.

You sound like an industry shill for another party, attempting to spread FUD about AKM's future and their ability deliver an improved product.

All that matters are the specs, no one gives a shit about where its made or how many pins it has.

The AKM fab fire removed choice from the industry through the loss of not only their best DAC chip lines but also the most popular ADC chip lines. More choice is better for the industry, for designers, brands and the buying public. It increases competition, enhances innovation and drives down price.

 

[Blumlein 88]

look in the mirror = brain dead

 

[TonyJZX]

I think a more sane way to look at this is that AKM lost a state of the art factory.

They are perhaps using less sophisticated fabs outside of Japan to make up.

The processors may or may not approach the performance of the Japanese originals.

Therefore there's an argument to be had that AKM is selling less performant products under the same 'branding'.

I get that. The OP clearly isnt successfully conveying the above. We should be more sympathetic to those 'different abled'.

 

[Lossless]

Correct, you said AKM is "dead". It is a bit inflammatory, would be good to acknowledge and move on!
Can you tell me what process technology these new chips are fabricated on? I would particularly like to know what the metal stack is, and the packaging, because that matters with respect to pinout.
Also, you are comparing a 4-channel DAC to a stereo DAC so that makes this a pretty apples to oranges comparison for pincount.
And, can you point exactly where the architectural differences that lead to degraded performance are on those block diagrams? I'm not seeing it. The product brief contains very little detail, which is pretty typical of product briefs, and the block diagram rendering is not useful to compare.

I gave you the basics. I’m not here to debate architectural differences, AKM factory FAB processes, or metal stacking . Do your own homework if you sincerely want to know more. It doesn’t require any knowledge of rocket science. The numbers speak for themselves.

 

[TonyJZX]

DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH SHEEPLE.

The calling card of Karens everywhere.

 

[MAB]

i think mores the point is that... does this have a measureable effect on performance

he didnt seem to make such a point... the implication may be there

as i say..... there may be some avenues worth looking into but OP clearly does not have the technical knowledge nor the art of the argument to make such a point

instead he's a monkey jumping up and down screaming "AKM is DAED"

Correct.
But seriously, when I heard AKM was DEAD, I was thinking:

And we were going to get some serious munchkins, and witches, and magic, with all of us trippin' on poppies on the way to the emerald city.

 

[KSTR]

The new AKM-AK4499EX chip is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT 64pin outsourced chip, compared to the original AK4499EQ 128pin chip. The vague 5 page EX data sheet tells the sad story.

You might want to know that splitting up the complexity of the original 4499EQ into two smaller chips (a front-end and a final output DAC core) was decided long before the fire. It seems '99EQ was just too big a chip and too complex a design to be mastered reasonably, with best possible specs (not just "good enough" ones), high yield rates, moderate end price, feasibility to redesign/upscale... Isolating the final output DAC stage into a separate chip is the most logical thing to do as this section is very sensitive to even tiniest fluctuations on the supply and reference voltages and to electromagnetic and electrostatic crosstalk. Even a different silicon base process better suited to the task than the high speed digital section process might be enough of reason to do the split.

Without the fire, the '99EQ might have been available for some time but the route AKM would go for their SOTA converters, for good reasons, was already pinned out.

As for chip fondry location, it doesn't matter and distributing the manufacture across multiple silicon chip production sites (self-owned or contract-based) is a move that AKM should have done right from the start which they didn't which is the reason the fire was such a catastrophe.

 

[sq225917]

The only numbers you presented is numbers of pins. That has nothing to do with dac performance.

 

[oleg87]

I think a more sane way to look at this is that AKM lost a state of the art factory.

They are perhaps using less sophisticated fabs outside of Japan to make up.

The processors may or may not approach the performance of the Japanese originals.

Therefore there's an argument to be had that AKM is selling less performant products under the same 'branding'.

I get that. The OP clearly isnt successfully conveying the above. We should be more sympathetic to those 'different abled'.

That's an argument that can be started on the testing bench, not from irrational hyperventilation about, uh... the pin counts of completely different chips.

 

[Lossless]

I think a more sane way to look at this is that AKM lost a state of the art factory.

They are perhaps using less sophisticated fabs outside of Japan to make up.

The processors may or may not approach the performance of the Japanese originals.

Therefore there's an argument to be had that AKM is selling less performant products under the same 'branding'.

I get that. The OP clearly isnt successfully conveying the above. We should be more sympathetic to those 'different abled'.

Simply because my choice of words, grammar, or approach isn’t up to your standards doesn’t give you the right to talk down to me with your condescending remarks. I can easily recognize pretentious jerks by the intent of their speech.

 

[TonyJZX]

That's an argument that can be started on the testing bench, not from irrational hyperventilation about, uh... the pin counts of completely different chips.

as pointed out by another observant gentlemen there, OP is comparing a stereo dac with a 4 channel dac

which might explain the different component count

 

[MCH]

+ ESS does not even have a fab, what are we going to do now??!!

 

[MAB]

Simply because my choice of words, grammar, or approach isn’t up to your standards doesn’t give you the right to talk down to me with your condescending remarks. I can easily recognize pretentious jerks by the intent of their speech.

Look, you said some technically incorrect things. And made an over simplistic argument from a pin count. And click baited it with really strong language in the title. And you got people with actual semiconductor experience here trying at first to gently redirect. But it seems you just are digging in.

 

[MAB]

as pointed out by another observant gentlemen there, OP is comparing a stereo dac with a 4 channel dac

which might explain the different component count

There are at least three layers of apples to oranges comparisons going on here.

 

[TonyJZX]

Simply because my choice of words, grammar, or approach isn’t up to your standards doesn’t give you the right to talk down to me with your condescending remarks. I can easily recognize pretentious jerks by the intent of their speech.

sir, your own demeanour betrays yourself more than anyone else ever could