AKG N700nc m2 Measurements

[amirm]

This is a quick review/detailed measurements of the AKG N700nc M2 noise cancelling headphone. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $190.

This is a quick measurement review as I am on a short fuse to ship this unit out. So please pardon lack of listening tests and equalization. Testing was limited to using included wire mode. I did turn on the unit so if there is any DSP correction, hopefully it was active here.

AKG N700NC M2 Measurements
I had a hell of a time getting the two channels to match. Slightest movement of the cups would drastically change the response. Here is the best consistency I got in frequency response:

We have good bit of bass which I like. What I don't like is fair amount of variation from the target and strong channel mismatch past 2 kHz. Here is our relative frequency response for what it is worth:

Typical of noise cancelling headphones, in wired mode they can't handle too much input drive, causing massive distortion once the limit is reached:

Excluding 114 dBSPL, we still have a peak between 1 and 2 kHz I don't like:

Group delay was clean:

Finally, sensitivity is a bit better than average:

Conclusions
Objective performance is hard to get at when the response of the headphone is so variable. The small cups aggravate this. Going by what we have, there is fair bit of variability. But we have good bass so we should be able to EQ and get something good.

Since I didn't listen to the N700nc M2, I have no recommendation for you one way or the other.

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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

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[TonyJZX]

these headphones are about the most used set i've ever had but the problem will be is that I've only used them in BT mode

they are typified by reputedly having a very clean even neutral sound but with average ANC

but right now I just dug out the 2.5 -> 3.5 cable and tried it for the first time on analog... using my Xduoo XD5 and my new M300se

umm... yeah these are amazing for the money.... easy-ish to drive... its maxing out the M300 which says that its probably not that great but the XD05 is better

there were under $100 usd here and when I bought them around the middle of covid I think they were already going EOL

comfort is good too

i cant say i was too impressed at the start because i'm too used to the B&W sound, I have the P5 and P7 but these AKGs are so good

 

[Robbo99999]

Fact that it was so hard to measure in terms of getting a variable frequency response each time you placed it on the GRAS does not bode well for a good listening experience. Plus the measurements you have got shows that it has issues between 1-3kHz, which is quite a fundamental area to get right. These don't look like good performing headphones!

 

[restorer-john]

Amir, you're on fire with reviews lately!

These AKGs appear to be close, but no cigar. They do look reasonably comfortable and feature packed for the money.

 

[thewas]

A typical example of a Harman group headphone with as expected quite good matching to their target curve but some drawbacks in quality, channel matching and wearing comfort.

 

[Moonhead]

Thx Amir... Have been considering these for a long time, but seems that QC35 is the better buy, that is if you can find one!

 

[Maiky76]

Here are some thoughts about the EQ.

Notes about the EQ design:

• The average L/R is used to calculate the score.
• The resolution is 12 points per octave interpolated from the raw data (provided by @amirm)
• A Genetic Algorithm is used to optimize the EQ.
• The EQ Score is designed to MAXIMIZE the Score WHILE fitting the Harman target curve (and other constrains) with a fixed complexity.
  This will avoid weird results if one only optimizes for the Score.
  It will probably flatten the Error regression doing so, the tonal balance should be therefore more neutral.
• The EQs are starting point and may require tuning (certainly at LF and maybe at HF).
• The range around and above 10kHz is usually not EQed unless smooth enough to do so.
• I am using PEQ (PK) as from my experience the definition is more consistent across different DSP/platform implementations than shelves.
• With some HP/amp combo, the boosts and preamp gain (loss of Dynamic range) need to be carefully considered to avoid issues with, amongst other things, too low a Max SPL or damaging your device. You have beed warned.
• Not all units of the same product are made equal. The EQ is based on the measurements of a single unit. YMMV with regards to the very unit you are trying this EQ on.
• I sometimes use variations of the Harman curve for some reasons. See rational here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...pro-review-headphone.28244/page-5#post-989169
• https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...pro-review-headphone.28244/page-6#post-992119
• NOTE: the score then calculated is not comparable to the scores derived from the default Harman target curve if not otherwise noted.

Average L/R match.

I have generated one EQ, the APO config file is attached.

Score no EQ: 82.9
Score with EQ: 104.0

AKG N700NC M2 EQ Flat 96000Hz
June082023-202813

Preamp: -6 dB

Filter 1: ON PK Fc 199.31 Hz Gain 2.69 dB Q 1.21
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 386.72 Hz Gain -1.35 dB Q 2.06
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 1032.27 Hz Gain 2.51 dB Q 4.97
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 2343.44 Hz Gain 5.92 dB Q 1.49
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 5888.42 Hz Gain 5.69 dB Q 5.91

 

[192kbps]

I firmly believe in Haman's research, but their headphones are more like a joke.

 

[Dazerdoreal]

Surprised about this one, I have heard very positive things about these.
I have heard about the variability issue though which is why I didnt bought them as I wear glasses.

 

[ugur38]

I wish you had more time with these.

According to Crinacle's measurements it follows Harman target very closely with extra bass boost and according to RTings' measurements it follows their target very closely too. Also both have almost perfect channel matching.

Additionally RTings says analog audio is supported but USB audio is not supported so I think DSP wasn't active when you tested these with wired. I wish you tested these with wireless.

 

[Robbo99999]

I wish you had more time with these.

According to Crinacle's measurements it follows Harman target very closely with extra bass boost and according to RTings' measurements it follows their target very closely too. Also both have almost perfect channel matching.

Additionally RTings says analog audio is supported but USB audio is not supported so I think DSP wasn't active when you tested these with wired. I wish you tested these with wireless.

View attachment 290901

That is really very different from Amir's measurement, even in the bass. I wouldn't say that Crinacle's measurement of them follows the Harman Target well though, it doesn't. Very different measurements between Crinacle & Amir here for this headphone. Crinacle's measurement looks more fixable with EQ whereas Amir's measurement is showing a more erratic headphone both in smoothness of frequency response (dips & peaks) and of course the poor channel matching. I'd be inclined to stay away from this headphone for variability reasons, both in the difficulties Amir had in measuring it and the fact that the measurements between Crin & Amir are so different too. Seems like an unreliable headphone.

As to your idea that Amir might have tested without the internal DSP activated, well he thought he had activated it......I can't really comment one way or another, doesn't give me much faith in the headphone at this point.

 

[ROOSKIE]

That is really very different from Amir's measurement, even in the bass. I wouldn't say that Crinacle's measurement of them follows the Harman Target well though, it doesn't. Very different measurements between Crinacle & Amir here for this headphone. Crinacle's measurement looks more fixable with EQ whereas Amir's measurement is showing a more erratic headphone both in smoothness of frequency response (dips & peaks) and of course the poor channel matching. I'd be inclined to stay away from this headphone for variability reasons, both in the difficulties Amir had in measuring it and the fact that the measurements between Crin & Amir are so different too. Seems like an unreliable headphone.

As to your idea that Amir might have tested without the internal DSP activated, well he thought he had activated it......I can't really comment one way or another, doesn't give me much faith in the headphone at this point.

You don't think that chart @ugur38 posted follows the Harman curve well?

I sure do.

It also tracks Amir's fairly well and the bass boost and overall midrange and trebble zones would reasonably match if Amir's graph was lifted a couple DB.

These may be better than the review here suggests. A hurried review is ultimately incomplete and not truly comparable with full reviews. (Better than nothing though.)

These look quite decent to me. I agree with @ugur38 that they may need A 2nd look from ASR if time and circumstances allow.

 

[Robbo99999]

You don't think that chart @ugur38 posted follows the Harman curve well?

I sure do.

It also tracks Amir's fairly well and the bass boost and overall midrange and trebble zones would reasonably match if Amir's graph was lifted a couple DB.

These may be better than the review here suggests. A hurried review is ultimately incomplete and not truly comparable with full reviews. (Better than nothing though.)

These look quite decent to me. I agree with @ugur38 that they may need A 2nd look from ASR if time and circumstances allow.

Nope, it definitely doesn't follow the Harman Curve well according to Crinacles measurement. It's around 4dB out all the way from 300Hz down to 20Hz, and it's 3 or 4dB out all the way from 4kHz-10kHz. Those are very wide band areas that are showing significant deviation from Harman, it would be extremely noticeable from a listening perspective if you were to compare it EQ'd to Harman vs Stock - it's a major tonal deviation. (Also falls below the curve at 2kHz, but less significantly, but again that will only add to the tonal deviation trend already in place.)

I don't have too much of an opinion on whether Amir's review was rushed or not, or if that compromised the measurement or whether active DSP was really on properly or not, I can't really judge that from the measurements - someone who's measured the headphone in passive & active mode should be able to tell though.

 

[KiyPhi]

Amir, you're on fire with reviews lately!

These AKGs appear to be close, but no cigar. They do look reasonably comfortable and feature packed for the money.

I got a pair for $80 on sale and they didn't quite sound like these measure but I only used them in BT mode so maybe there is different processing. That said, the ANC was sub-par and the comfort was not there after more than 15 or so minutes. The small cups were the limiting factor. Sony XM line + EQ is a bit better of an option I think. If you don't have access to EQ, they aren't bad.

 

[GaryH]

@Resolve 's measurements (note, not using the proper Harman target in the bass):

 

[usersky]

To me these seem like an atempt to fix the failed headband design of AKG K361/371. They feel and sound rather similar to me (used exclusively on BT). Cups a bit smaller, much improved headband and clamp/positioning on ears. I prefer them over K371 but comfort is not all that good. Mine did some noises at the coups swevel when i stepped, sratches of plastic on plastic, yuck. Tried to lube them, put some presure, force some wear, nothing helped so I abandoned them for some months. Now the bad sounds are gone but so is the magic. Not bad overall but their implementation, as expected from JBL, AKG & Co is far below Harman's reputation for research. AKG trully neads an impecable executed very high quality model to save them from this mediocre position on the market IMO. Thanks a lot for the review, I expected this for some time.
PS: do I sound a bit biased? Maybe because today my JBL Tune 230NC just died (4 months old)? No, I am sure I am totally objective!

 

[MatthewS]

Just some input as these are mine.

The DSP is active when powered in wired mode. I'm 99.9% certain, and can double check it when they get back.

They have an app with headphone stored EQ. The UI isn't great, but you can dial in a correction and save it to the headphones and it works across BT and Wired. I cleared it out before I sent to Amir.

My subjective experience is more inline with Crincle's measurements. The bass is a little pushed--it may just be as @ROOSKIE said, the graph needs to move up a few DB.

I settled on this EQ and have been very happy with the headphones:

In edit mode, you can actually set your filters at any frequency and control the dB cut or rise.

 

[Robbo99999]

@Resolve 's measurements (note, not using the proper Harman target in the bass):

View attachment 290928

Hard to tell how Crinacle's / Resolve's / Amir's all line up without putting them all on the same graph. To me it looks like Resolve's measurements is the closest to Harman of the bunch. Certainly some differences between all 3.

 

[Robbo99999]

Just some input as these are mine.

The DSP is active when powered in wired mode. I'm 99.9% certain, and can double check it when they get back.

They have an app with headphone stored EQ. The UI isn't great, but you can dial in a correction and save it to the headphones and it works across BT and Wired. I cleared it out before I sent to Amir.

My subjective experience is more inline with Crincle's measurements. The bass is a little pushed--it may just be as @ROOSKIE said, the graph needs to move up a few DB.

I settled on this EQ and have been very happy with the headphones:

View attachment 290941

In edit mode, you can actually set your filters at any frequency and control the dB cut or rise.

Definitely gave you a "Like" for sending them in, as well as giving the information that they're in DSP mode when powered through wired. That EQ look a bit weird though overall, what frequency is the peak you're putting in & how many dB? How did you work out your EQ?

 

[MatthewS]

Definitely gave you a "Like" for sending them in, as well as giving the information that they're in DSP mode when powered through wired. That EQ look a bit weird though overall, what frequency is the peak you're putting in & how many dB? How did you work out your EQ?

The UI draws it really weird. In the edit mode it is less strange. It is a shelf about 200hz to bring down the bass a bit and I want to say the other one is up around 8k. I based it off existing measurements and some A/B testing. It is easy to turn the EQ on and off and listen to the impact. You could probably skip the high frequency filter and just put the bass shelf in. I'll play with it more when they are back based on Amir's measurements and see what the sound is like.

I have these: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/truthear-x-crinacle-zero-iem-review.37380/

So I can do some side-by-side with very compliant (though in-ear) headphones.