AKG K701

[Felix Culpa]

Hi,

I am currently using an AKG K701 and looking for advice on a decent headphone amp (or DAC Headphone amp).
I check the amazing review on the Grace M900, (and will probably go for it) but not sure if I could get similar results with a unit half the price.
Probably not, but would it be audible with my K701? I have a basic audio interface at the moment Tascam US-1608 and use the headphone out.
I feel the unit is fine at lower levels but struggling a bit at higher volume.
I guess it is difficult without testing but any guidance would be appreciated.
Anything is better than what I have at the moment , but just trying to find out where the diminishing return on investment apply in my case.


AKG K701

• Sensitivity F.A.Q. by voltage: 102.45 dB/V SPL
• Sensitivity F.A.Q. by power: 90.65 dB/mW SPL
• Average impedance : 65.99 ohm

Tascam 1608:
PHONES Connector1/4" (6.3mm) stereo phone jackMaximum output level70mW + 70mW or more (THD+N 0.1% or less, 32Ω loaded)

Many thanks

 

[HereYaGo]

i dont understand why people spend thousands on dac amps and preamps. My audio interface is literally less than 200 bucks and performs to my satisfaction and powers my microphone not just headphones. I mean I understand a bad amp can change the sound but there is a lot of good stuff out there for a lot less than 550 bucks.

 

[samwell7]

Hi,

I am currently using an AKG K701 and looking for advice on a decent headphone amp (or DAC Headphone amp).
I check the amazing review on the Grace M900, (and will probably go for it) but not sure if I could get similar results with a unit half the price.
Probably not, but would it be audible with my K701? I have a basic audio interface at the moment Tascam US-1608 and use the headphone out.
I feel the unit is fine at lower levels but struggling a bit at higher volume.
I guess it is difficult without testing but any guidance would be appreciated.
Anything is better than what I have at the moment , but just trying to find out where the diminishing return on investment apply in my case.


AKG K701

• Sensitivity F.A.Q. by voltage: 102.45 dB/V SPL
• Sensitivity F.A.Q. by power: 90.65 dB/mW SPL
• Average impedance : 65.99 ohm

Tascam 1608:
PHONES Connector1/4" (6.3mm) stereo phone jackMaximum output level70mW + 70mW or more (THD+N 0.1% or less, 32Ω loaded)

Many thanks

I've powered my K702 adequately from an apple USB C to 3.5mm adaptor out of my computer (using a USB a to C adaptor) total cost of like $20, might be worth a try - although I don't listen overly loud, with that being said the apple adaptor can output 1V which is ~103dB SPL

 

[Felix Culpa]

i dont understand why people spend thousands on dac amps and preamps. My audio interface is literally less than 200 bucks and performs to my satisfaction and powers my microphone not just headphones. I mean I understand a bad amp can change the sound but there is a lot of good stuff out there for a lot less than 550 bucks.

Hi,
From the reviews on the site it appears that a low impedance from the headphone amp (1/8 of the headphone at least) is key to keep
the frequency response of the headphones in check. All I can find from my audio interface is a max output 70mw and no info about impedance.
From this website calculator :https://www.headphonesty.com/, I need 52 mw power to drive K701 at 110 dBSPL.
It seems to be the only good news because nothing else is mentioned from Tascam website.
I used to have an Mbox (lower level and harsh) before the 1608 and the difference was huge. Not sure if it was a matching problem, or a poor DAC from the Mbox at the time. Still the 1608 is pretty cheap but 10 years technology gap with my mbox.
I have only read excellent reviews from the M900 so far. I heard the RME (ADI2pro) and was very impressed. I guess the M900 is a step further in that direction from where I am at the moment. But I will check for headphones amps with low impedance below £550 as well. Thanks!

 

[Felix Culpa]

I've powered my K702 adequately from an apple USB C to 3.5mm adaptor out of my computer (using a USB a to C adaptor) total cost of like $20, might be worth a try - although I don't listen overly loud, with that being said the apple adaptor can output 1V which is ~103dB SPL

Hi,
Thanks for the info, I will have a look.

 

[samwell7]

Hi,
From the reviews on the site it appears that a low impedance from the headphone amp (1/8 of the headphone at least) is key to keep
the frequency response of the headphones in check. All I can find from my audio interface is a max output 70mw and no info about impedance.
From this website calculator :https://www.headphonesty.com/, I need 52 mw power to drive K701 at 110 dBSPL.
It seems to be the only good news because nothing else is mentioned from Tascam website.
I used to have an Mbox (lower level and harsh) before the 1608 and the difference was huge. Not sure if it was a matching problem, or a poor DAC from the Mbox at the time. Still the 1608 is pretty cheap but 10 years technology gap with my mbox.
I have only read excellent reviews from the M900 so far. I heard the RME (ADI2pro) and was very impressed. I guess the M900 is a step further in that direction from where I am at the moment. But I will check for headphones amps with low impedance below £550 as well. Thanks!

Hey just note the 1/8th rule of thumb is just a rule of thumb, it really depends on the headphone specifically and whether or not it has impedance with large variations.

If you look here you'll see that for the K701 the frequency response isn't really impacted by output impedance.

When not using the Apple converter I run the K702s out of a receiver which I can almost guarantee will have an output impedance of >120 ohms and I don't notice a difference in sound between the two.

 

[Felix Culpa]

Hey just note the 1/8th rule of thumb is just a rule of thumb, it really depends on the headphone specifically and whether or not it has impedance with large variations.

If you look here you'll see that for the K701 the frequency response isn't really impacted by output impedance.

When not using the Apple converter I run the K702s out of a receiver which I can almost guarantee will have an output impedance of >120 ohms and I don't notice a difference in sound between the two.

Great link, thanks! So now I just wonder if I should get a new headphone amp at all. Or ...may be just trying to improve the frequency response of k701 with sonarworks directly. It's probably a better investment.

 

[samwell7]

Great link, thanks! So now I just wonder if I should get a new headphone amp at all. Or ...may be just trying to improve the frequency response of k701 with sonarworks directly. It's probably a better investment.

I'd still recommend trying the apple USB C to 3.5mm adaptor and USB A to C adaptor if you can spare the cash, there might be other issues with your amp causing it to distort the signal or having a non-flat FR, the apple adaptor is an easy way to see what your headphones should sound like.
Sonarworks might sound worse if your amp has a non-flat frequency or response or some other issue.

 

[EZ Meno]

I have Q701, which are very similar (or identical?) to K701. I've been using Schiit Magni 2U (cost me $99 USD a few years ago). Very happy with the pair and the Magni has more power than I need.

 

[Felix Culpa]

Thanks, I will check that too.

 

[DeepShadow]

Yes,Schiit Magni 2 Uber will be ok for yours AKG K701...

 

[FrantzM]

Hi Felix

Welcome!

Satisfied user of the cheap, powerful and reliable JDS Labs Atom. It is capable of powering most headphones on the market with ease and utter reliability. About $100. You will never look back.

Spend the same on a DAC, Topping comes to mind, and you are set.

 

[Jimbob54]

I have Q701, which are very similar (or identical?) to K701. I've been using Schiit Magni 2U (cost me $99 USD a few years ago). Very happy with the pair and the Magni has more power than I need.

Q701 are technically closed I believe (or semi closed)

Edit. No, they are open. See below .

 

[Jimmy]

They are not closed, the difference that I know of is that the Q701 has pieces of round foam below the outer grills, that may explain the perception of some extra bass.

If someone wants to try some tweaks in that area, grills can be removed without pliers or screwdrivers, I use just a piece of thick and wide double sided tape and after applying it, they can be rotated counter clockwise without much difficulty.

Anyway, I must say that I don't like these (K701/K702) with low impedance headphone amplifiers, they tend to sound unnatural and with an emphasis in the upper mids and lower treble that makes them unpleasant. In my experience they sound much more balanced with high impedance SS or tube amps.

K712 are a further tweak and the different foam material makes them sound warmer and less peaky, but they still share the same family sound, so these are probably not the best choice for someone that loves let's say something like the HD600/HD650.

 

[Felix Culpa]

Yes,Schiit Magni 2 Uber will be ok for yours AKG K701...

Thanks, I didn't know that company. Website is nice. They have a wide range of prices too. very interesting indeed.

 

[Jimbob54]

They are not closed, the difference that I know of is that the Q701 has pieces of round foam below the outer grills, that may explain the perception of some extra bass.

If someone wants to try some tweaks in that area, grills can be removed without pliers or screwdrivers, I use just a piece of thick and wide double sided tape and after applying it, they can be rotated counter clockwise without much difficulty.

Anyway, I must say that I don't like these (K701/K702) with low impedance headphone amplifiers, they tend to sound unnatural and with an emphasis in the upper mids and lower treble that makes them unpleasant. In my experience they sound much more balanced with high impedance SS or tube amps.

K712 are a further tweak and the different foam material makes them sound warmer and less peaky, but they still share the same family sound, so these are probably not the best choice for someone that loves let's say something like the HD600/HD650.

I take it back. Not closed at all.

 

[Felix Culpa]

Hi Felix

Welcome!

Satisfied user of the cheap, powerful and reliable JDS Labs Atom. It is capable of powering most headphones on the market with ease and utter reliability. About $100. You will never look back.

Spend the same on a DAC, Topping comes to mind, and you are set.

wow their design is really sleek. Element II looks amazing. Thanks.

 

[Felix Culpa]

Thanks guys for sharing all this!
Now, I have some serious options ( JDS Labs and Schiit )for amp+ DAC and can definitely see alternatives to the M900.
Tech specs must be very close.
Just need to find out if I can find distributors in UK.
Great.

 

[xaviescacs]

Hi Felix,

I would like to share my experience with this headphones and different amps.

I have two amps: the Lake People G100 and the Pathos Aurium (yes, quite expensive). I bought the Pathos because I went to a store and tried some headphone amps, just for fun, not expecting much improvement over my G100. I've tried some Lehmann and Icon Audio (tube) and they didn't make a lot of difference to me, not worth the investment, as the G100 are really good. With the Pathos however the story was different.

For the test I used few seconds of some classical musical tracks, one of them being the first Trombone notes of the Tuba Mirum of Mozart's Requiem of the Karl Bohm recording. I tried this passage with all the amps and always had to stop when the Pathos was hooked. It's all subjective of course, but I found this amp to reveal a lot more in terms of texture, like the real sound of a Trombone. It also gave that feeling (repeat, feeling) of slow motion, like it's more going on there and the brain just needs more time. I ended purchasing the amp despite the cost and I'm very satisfied with it. The listening with the Pathos compared to the G100 is far more enjoyable and relaxed with all kinds of music. To my ears, they offer the same level of detail than the G100, although the latter is more neutral. Perhaps one is the truth, or close to it, and the other is that kind of lie that you would call a dream, a very pleasing one.

Going back to the headphone itself. In the same store I tried some expensive headphones, like one Technics of about 1000 €, and it sounded the same in all amps, and clearly, to my ear, below the AKG. To sum up, in my opinion, the 701 are a great pair of headphones that are quite transparent, in the sense that they deliver to you what the amp and the system is giving. With them, you listen the system and the music, so if you don't like the sound, don't blame the headphones, change the amp.

 

[Frank Dernie]

To sum up, in my opinion, the 701 are a great pair of headphones that are quite transparent, in the sense that they deliver to you what the amp and the system is giving. With them, you listen the system and the music, so if you don't like the sound, don't blame the headphones, change the amp.

Weird, I have had Q701 for many years. I chose them by auditioning a wide range of headphones at a dealer using my DAP and felt they had the most accurate cello timbre of all the headphones he had in stock.
I have subsequently listened to them using an iPhone (that gives an idea how long I have owned them it is a long time since iPhones had headphone sockets!), my laptop my DAPs (both Astell and Kern and Colorfly Classic which has a lot of power) and headphone amps I have, RME ADI-2 Pro and SMSL S9 and have never had the impression that the amp had any impact on the sound quality at all.
I had read that it required a lot of power but nothing I have tried has run out of steam yet.
We obviously have completely opposite experiences.

I feel the unit is fine at lower levels but struggling a bit at higher volume.

I own an Apple Dongle which can be used with an iPad, I haven't tried it with the Q701 but if you are interested if it is power limited (the only possible shortcoming IMHO) let me know and I'll give it a try.