AK4499 Shootout: Topping D90 vs Gustard A18

[Martin]

I like putting together these comparisons to provide a side-by-side view of two similar products. My first was a shootout between DAC chips, AK4499 vs ES9038Pro, both in Gustard units. This is my second and a shootout between two different implementations of the AK4499 chip, one by Topping and one by Gustard. Lets get to the nitty-gritty.

Price (current as of 9/15/2020):
Gustard A18 - $559.99
Topping D90 - $699.99 (non-MQA)

Photos (shoot me, I like silver):
A18 Front

D90 Front

A18 Rear

D90 Rear

Dashboards:
A18

D90

32-tone A18 (left) D90 (right):

THD A18 (left) D90 (right)

Linearity A18 (left) D90 (right)

DR A18 (left) D90 (right)

Jitter A18 coax (left) D90 USB & coax (right)

Once again we see two pretty evenly matched DACs. A few dB here, a few percentage points there, all-in-all they both measure very well and all differences definitely look to be well below the threshold of human hearing.

I've read plenty of subjectivists comparing the "sound" of DAC implementations. A DBX test using these two state of the art DACs would either put those claims to rest or, inconceivably, prove they do indeed sound different.

Hope you found this at least enjoyable if not enlightening.

Martin

 

[sound_engineer]

I am curious how the units for tests were obtained to confirm if no cherry picking happened in DUT (device under test) selection process. I experienced significant (~3dB) difference between two units of the same Brand/Model, particularly in the noise and distortions measurements.

 

[Martin]

I am curious how the units for tests were obtained to confirm if no cherry picking happened in DUT (device under test) selection process. I experienced significant (~3dB) difference between two units of the same Brand/Model, particularly in the noise and distortions measurements.

Both units tested here were provided by the companies.

Wolf’s review of the Gustard A18:
"About two months ago, I got the Gustard A18 prototype. Found some bugs and notified the manufacturer. This DAC is now officially on the market, and I have applied for a device to measure it."

Amir's review of the Topping D90:
"This is a review and detailed measurements of the Topping D90 Balanced USB DAC with Bluetooth. It was kindly sent to me by the company."

Therefore they may, or may not have been, "cherry picked." In either case a 3dB difference in SINAD is inaudible at these levels.

Martin

 

[JohnYang1997]

I am curious how the units for tests were obtained to confirm if no cherry picking happened in DUT (device under test) selection process. I experienced significant (~3dB) difference between two units of the same Brand/Model, particularly in the noise and distortions measurements.

You gotta be specific. Topping measures every single unit on APx555 to verify the performance.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Maybe using Wolf's measurement for both would be better for comparison.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nd-measurements-of-topping-d90-4499dac.10281/

 

[trl]

Kinda old thread, I know, but strictly referring to the measurement graphs, I do like more the D90 graphs more, including the THD+N vs. Freq. @ 90 kHz. Also, by looking to Wolf's measurements, I find the Dynamic graphs between the two DACs being about the same.

The rotary knob is an advantage of the A18 over the D90; same I can say about the pricing. Of course, the tiny differences in the graphs are not telling the entire story here, so I'm sure in an A/B test nobody can tell the difference between the two.

P.S.: I've also ordered a second hand D90 MQA coming soon; I don't need it, but ASR forum is driving me crazy. Hope for the best.

 

[RichB]

I’d like to see trigger out for a power amp.
perhaps that’s to be expected for products that are considered desktop headphone amps.

- Rich

 

[Harmonie]

Kinda old thread, I know, but strictly referring to the measurement graphs, I do like more the D90 graphs more, including the THD+N vs. Freq. @ 90 kHz. Also, by looking to Wolf's measurements, I find the Dynamic graphs between the two DACs being about the same.

The rotary knob is an advantage of the A18 over the D90; same I can say about the pricing. Of course, the tiny differences in the graphs are not telling the entire story here, so I'm sure in an A/B test nobody can tell the difference between the two.

P.S.: I've also ordered a second hand D90 MQA coming soon; I don't need it, but ASR forum is driving me crazy. Hope for the best.

I also thought thought that the rotary knob is an advantage.
It's surely better looking.
But finally, the D90 buttons are very handy and technically better than the rotary knob.
Ask the op his thought about rotary knobs and his prior experience

 

[trl]

are

I vote for the rotary knob anytime of day, especially that these two buttons from Topping will fade-out after few months of daily usage. I would not touch those volume buttons daily, I would use the volume from the external amplifier instead or, if really needed, the remote volume.

Although, I know that during the time rotary knobs might start to heretically change the volume level up-down due to wear, but well...time will tell.

 

[Harmonie]

I vote for the rotary knob anytime of day, especially that these two buttons from Topping will fade-out after few months of daily usage. I would not touch those volume buttons daily, I would use the volume from the external amplifier instead or, if really needed, the remote volume.

Although, I know that during the time rotary knobs might start to heretically change the volume level up-down due to wear, but well...time will tell.

Nope,

The best option is using the remote control.
Can't find any cheaper and instant replacement.
For 25$ you get a new one which is even upgraded in aluminium !

 

[raif71]

If I have the d90 or A18, I will either set it 0 db or in DAC mode (if there is such a thing). That way I don't have to play with the DAC's volume and let any amp connected to the DAC to control the volume

 

[Harmonie]

If I have the d90 or A18, I will either set it 0 db or in DAC mode (if there is such a thing). That way I don't have to play with the DAC's volume and let any amp connected to the DAC to control the volume

I considered that.
D90 in dac mode and adding the Pre90.
But there wouldn't be any sonic benefit; so,
maybe I'll just stop seeking, admit that I can be happy as it is and concentrate on it's function:
listening to MUSIC.

 

[Tks]

I’d like to see trigger out for a power amp.
perhaps that’s to be expected for products that are considered desktop headphone amps.

- Rich

At this point all I want to see is Benchmark dethroned after half a decade of landslide dominance basically. Just to see if it's possible. Though they have some particulars in their power amp I fear Topping might not be keen on matching (small details that seem to bring costs high very quickly)

You still have yours btw? Your setup was sick last I seen it.

 

[trl]

If I have the d90 or A18, I will either set it 0 db or in DAC mode (if there is such a thing). That way I don't have to play with the DAC's volume and let any amp connected to the DAC to control the volume

This is because you probably don't need to drive active speakers.

 

[raif71]

This is because you probably don't need to drive active speakers.

I have active speakers and it is connected to the amp. The amp can control the volume.

 

[RichB]

At this point all I want to see is Benchmark dethroned after half a decade of landslide dominance basically. Just to see if it's possible. Though they have some particulars in their power amp I fear Topping might not be keen on matching (small details that seem to bring costs high very quickly)

You still have yours btw? Your setup was sick last I seen it.

At this point all I want to see is Benchmark dethroned after half a decade of landslide dominance basically. Just to see if it's possible. Though they have some particulars in their power amp I fear Topping might not be keen on matching (small details that seem to bring costs high very quickly)

You still have yours btw? Your setup was sick last I seen it.

Yes. My main system has 4 Revel Salon2s, Voice2, and now two custom Salk Sound Rythmik E22 (dual 12) subwoofers with mahogany sides to match the Salon2s.
I am still working with REW/PEW to optimize it. I have not tried Dirac, but I was not a fan in the XMC-1.

Life is good

- Rich

 

[Ron Texas]

The two dac's are equivalent in my view. I've had good luck with 2 Topping dac's.

@RichB I bet that system can put out lots of volume without distress.

 

[RichB]

The two dac's are equivalent in my view. I've had good luck with 2 Topping dac's.

@RichB I bet that system can put out lots of volume without distress.

Is surely does. I bi-amp the front 3 with AHB2s and I never see clip indicators at any level my family can stand with movies. I can clip with music if I try but that is way past anything I find enjoyable. Clipping is predictable with digital sources (those are the only kind I have).

Currently, the dual E22s are used for LFE and two subs has made a big difference. They are huge step up from a single Velodyne HGS-15 which I could localize. The dual subs are amazing. Here is the measurement of each and the REW prediction of the response adding 1ms delay to the left channel.

There is absolutely no option to move the subwoofers in my room and stay married.

- Rich

 

[Ron Texas]

How did you determine a 1ms delay on the left sub was beneficial? I look at the graphs in REW, and haven't a clue.

 

[RichB]

How did you determine a 1ms delay on the left sub was beneficial? I look at the graphs in REW, and haven't a clue.

Folks on the AVS Rythmik thread pointed me to the latest REW 5.2 beta that includes an "Alignment Tool" on the controls when viewing the All SPL page. I had measurements from the left and right subs with some basic PEQ filters applied. The tool allows you to adjust the phase to predict the delay affects. I'll have to measure with delay in place but it looks like a killer feature and great time saver.

- Rich