AIYIMA T20 Tube Pre-amplifier Review

[Mike123]

Do you choose a car by power and length?

Of course. These are the main characteristics.

How do you measure comfort? Drivability?

A description of the existing options and technical solutions. Based on personal experience. Visits to dealerships. Test drives. But certainly not based on reviews from who knows who.

 

[edzoba]

Of course. These are the main characteristics.

A description of the existing options and technical solutions. Based on personal experience. Visits to dealerships. Test drives. But certainly not based on reviews from who knows who.

Agreed. So there are metrics and experience. As we don't have the opportunity neither to measure nor to experience everything, we narrow down the possibilities based on "literature". In this case old and young members' posts, among whom we measure none

 

[RandomEar]

Do you choose a car by power and length? How do you measure comfort? Drivability?

Comfort and drivability would the equivalent of the usability of the UI or the quality feeling of the volume pot on a HiFi device. Again, as mentioned many times elsewhere: It's totally valid to have preferences about that and to prefer a hands-on test for these things. Power or length of a car would be more equivalent to the measured properties of a HiFi device like distortion, noise, power and so on - hard facts which also factor into the buying decision.

Sound quality is easily measured - why would I rely on potentially dozens of subjective opinions about this property which often differ wildly while I know that these same opinions are unreliable and likely straight up wrong due to bias? All the wile objective data is available, reliable and does not differ significantly between sources.

Like: I get it. It's fun to tinker with stuff. It becomes part of the audiophile hobby and adds to the experience. But if it's not based on real differences but just placebo differences, there's always something better out there, more things to test and more money to spend. And if you continue trying new stuff and spending that money, your brain will continue to tell you things got better and better while the actual sound does not change at all. That's just a rabbit hole. There's no end to it. And the majority of the audio industry is perpetuating the lies about specific equiment sounding different to sell you more and more of it. Where's the fun in that?

I want good sound and I'm having fun with tinkering, too - but I tinker with things which actually matter and actually improve the sound. Most of them are cheap or free: A used UMIK-1 here, some EQ there, better speaker placement or an improved subwoofer integration on top.

 

[edzoba]

Sound quality is easily measured

If it would be so, there would be a sound quality meter, and 90% of the manufacturers should close the business, right? I walk down to the showroom with my calibrated qualitymeter and easily ban the impostors. Nevertheless I agree that 90% of the hifi industry is about marketing and brain tricks now. But this is a T20 topic, I'd better give the voice back to the subject matter

 

[RandomEar]

If it would be so, there would be a sound quality meter, and 90% of the manufacturers should close the business, right? I walk down to the showroom with my calibrated qualitymeter and easily ban the impostors.

Nah. As clearly evidenced by this thread and thousand of others on the web, the people wandering those showrooms would not believe what the meter tells them, because they can hear the differences so clearly!

Apart from a few exceptions like Benchmark or Purifi, who have made objective metrics a main point of their marketing, the majority of manufacturers have zero interest in promoting that knowledge. Because who would buy their shiny new toys if they admitted that they sound identical to the old ones and to most other devices of the same category?

Nevertheless I agree that 90% of the hifi industry is about marketing and brain tricks now. But this is a T20 topic, I'd better give the voice back to the subject matter

Let's do so.

 

[SMen]

Nah. As clearly evidenced by this thread and thousand of others on the web, the people wandering those showrooms would not believe what the meter tells them, because they can hear the differences so clearly!

Apart from a few exceptions like Benchmark or Purifi, who have made objective metrics a main point of their marketing, the majority of manufacturers have zero interest in promoting that knowledge. Because who would buy their shiny new toys if they admitted that they sound identical to the old ones and to most other devices of the same category?


Let's do so.

So kind of back to the subject matter. We are talking here about a balanced tube pre-amplifier.

The tubes are a genuine design choice in the amplification circuit. It works (well).

People can chime in and say "you can't hear this or you can't hear that" but quite regardless of any of the tweaks shared by @edzoba ... this is an inordinately inexpensive device.

There is too much emphasis on op amps, or power supplies or other ... but the very same people who decry (please put your hands up if you are reading this) ...

I repeat ... who decry others who talk about hearing component changes ... will nod and affirm their choice of a pre-amplifier many times the price... with ... if I am to understand ... inaudible but slightly better measurements (or, post edit, possibly not).

Same goes for power amplifiers. Oh yes, this or that 1000 dollar or GBP or euro amplifier ... great ...

so where are all the ASR pile ins against these folks ... "you can't hear the difference" ... the measurement of your 1000 dollar device is inaudible versus this 200 dollar one by 3e audio ... or indeed this pre-amp by Aiyima.

Look back on this thread ... it got slammed for not distorting correctly!

Just gotta laugh at the "objectivists" too.

 

[edzoba]

HELP: AI states that: "

Critical Warning for Burson V7V Compatibility Do not install Burson V7 Vivid op-amps inside the AIYIMA T20. While the AIYIMA T20 supports rolling op-amps via standard DIP-8 sockets, it uses a 12V DC power adapter split internally. The Problem: The Burson V7V requires a minimum total differential voltage of 8VDC (±4V) to power on safely, but it runs best at ±12V to ±15V. Miniature budget preamps like the T20 typically supply lower internal rail voltages (often around ±5V to ±9V) which heavily limits the headroom of power-hungry discrete Class-A op-amps." Is there a measurement of rail voltage at replaceable OPAs? @amirm ? Anyone else?
Aiyima replied briefly: "The op-amp is rated for a wide supply voltage range, so operating within that range is perfectly fine."

 

[RandomEar]

HELP: AI states that: "

Critical Warning for Burson V7V Compatibility Do not install Burson V7 Vivid op-amps inside the AIYIMA T20. While the AIYIMA T20 supports rolling op-amps via standard DIP-8 sockets, it uses a 12V DC power adapter split internally. The Problem: The Burson V7V requires a minimum total differential voltage of 8VDC (±4V) to power on safely, but it runs best at ±12V to ±15V. Miniature budget preamps like the T20 typically supply lower internal rail voltages (often around ±5V to ±9V) which heavily limits the headroom of power-hungry discrete Class-A op-amps." Is there a measurement of rail voltage at replaceable OPAs? @amirm ? Anyone else?
Aiyima replied briefly: "The op-amp is rated for a wide supply voltage range, so operating within that range is perfectly fine."

You're worried that the op amp is being used within the specified voltage range and already got confirmation from the circuit designer that this op amp will work fine?

This "critical warning" is laughable. The worst that could happen here is that voltage would be on the lower side of the specced range, in which case there would be no danger at all. (Current) AI is sadly utter crap when it comes to audio topics. Also, please include the prompt as requested by the AI policy.

 

[edzoba]

You're worried that the op amp is being used within the specified voltage range and already got confirmation from the circuit designer that this op amp will work fine?

This "critical warning" is laughable. The worst that could happen here is that voltage would be on the lower side of the specced range, in which case there would be no danger at all. (Current) AI is sadly utter crap when it comes to audio topics. Also, please include the prompt as requested by the AI policy.

No, worries, I'd like to know the rail voltage. "Fine" is not a voltage in my universe. Is it (again) a wrong question here? Then I stop questioning.
I did not find in my browsing history the prompt, sorry. AI policy will be respected in the future,.

 

[RandomEar]

No, worries, I'd like to know the rail voltage. "Fine" is not a voltage in my universe. Is it (again) a wrong question here? Then I stop questioning.
I did not find in my browsing history the prompt, sorry. AI policy will be respected in the future,.

It's totally fine to ask about the voltage. But consider how it may sound silly to ask about something which you discovered to be in spec and which has even been approved by the manufacturer. "Working fine" in this case means "working correctly within the specified operating conditions", which is really all you could ask for from an op amp or any other chip.

In addition, since you have the device on hand you could simply use a multimeter to measure it yourself. At least if you've got one in your toolbox.

 

[Lorenzo]

First of all, thank you, Amirm, for this detailed analysis, as always.

What caught my attention was, firstly, the skepticism before the analysis:

"I must say that, from my point of view, this type of product is often disastrous in terms of measurements. The manufacturer advertises measurements that are too good to be true for this category of product. Let's see if we can verify them."

Then, from one surprise to another:

"I was expecting a SINAD of 40 to 60 dB, but we're at 81 dB!"

" Wow, that's really excellent! "I've never tested a tube product with such low noise."

"I was expecting some increase in distortion at low frequencies, but it's less than I imagined."

And to finish the conclusion " I am going to recommend the AIYIMA T20 preamplifier. Kudos for the company showing that such a product can be done well, outclassing many solid state products ! "

So I decided to try it out, taking advantage of an Amazon offer at €135.99, to see if I would be surprised too, and I was!
I waited for the delivery of a pair of Tungsol 12AX7 widely praised in forums as
"high-gain, high-quality with ultra-low microphonic effects, ensuring a wide soundstage and a warm, musical sound reproduction," t
to give my opinion.

I'm using the available XLR inputs/outputs.
I'm absolutely delighted with the system! Amazing performance at this price!
Thank's again !

 

[xlinknz]

Can anyone confirm

1. Is input switching (including on the remote) to allow changing between 2 input devices i.e. one on RCA and one on XLR (so 2 sources can be used)?
2. Can the large display be disabled by remote?

 

[Winemaker]

Can anyone confirm

1. Is input switching (including on the remote) to allow changing between 2 input devices i.e. one on RCA and one on XLR (so 2 sources can be used)?
2. Can the large display be disabled by remote?

I'm confirming both.

 

[SMen]

First of all, thank you, Amirm, for this detailed analysis, as always.

What caught my attention was, firstly, the skepticism before the analysis:

"I must say that, from my point of view, this type of product is often disastrous in terms of measurements. The manufacturer advertises measurements that are too good to be true for this category of product. Let's see if we can verify them."

Then, from one surprise to another:

"I was expecting a SINAD of 40 to 60 dB, but we're at 81 dB!"

" Wow, that's really excellent! "I've never tested a tube product with such low noise."

"I was expecting some increase in distortion at low frequencies, but it's less than I imagined."

And to finish the conclusion " I am going to recommend the AIYIMA T20 preamplifier. Kudos for the company showing that such a product can be done well, outclassing many solid state products ! "

So I decided to try it out, taking advantage of an Amazon offer at €135.99, to see if I would be surprised too, and I was!
I waited for the delivery of a pair of Tungsol 12AX7 widely praised in forums as
"high-gain, high-quality with ultra-low microphonic effects, ensuring a wide soundstage and a warm, musical sound reproduction," t
to give my opinion.

I'm using the available XLR inputs/outputs.
I'm absolutely delighted with the system! Amazing performance at this price!
Thank's again !

+1 for those Tungsol 12AX7's - they are not for those seeking "warmth" etc. Nothing 'muddy' or 'cuddly' about them! Suit the modern design of the T20 well ... I might have been tempted by the Fosi Audio ZP3 but at low listening levels, the T20 offers a more refined volume taper ... something that gets lost in the judgement mix too often imo (volume control).

 

[Lorenzo]

+1 pour les Tungsol 12AX7 ! Elles ne sont pas faites pour ceux qui recherchent un son « chaleureux ». Rien de « boueux » ou de « doux » là-dedans ! Elles s’accordent parfaitement avec le design moderne du T20… J’aurais pu être tenté par les Fosi Audio ZP3, mais à faible volume, le T20 offre une variation de volume plus subtile… un détail qui, à mon avis, est trop souvent négligé lors du choix du réglage

Thank you, this gives me the opportunity to elaborate on my opinion.
After hundreds of hours of listening, they are even more analytical, without being coldly precise.
The soundstage is even more expansive.
I was truly surprised by a new listen to an album I know by heart,
"Electric Guitar of the Eclectic Elek Bacsik"
The Guitar Guild sounded like I'd never heard it before!

 

[SMen]

Thank you, this gives me the opportunity to elaborate on my opinion.
After hundreds of hours of listening, they are even more analytical, without being coldly precise.
The soundstage is even more expansive.
I was truly surprised by a new listen to an album I know by heart,
"Electric Guitar of the Eclectic Elek Bacsik"
The Guitar Guild sounded like I'd never heard it before!

Yes, the forum here is quite rigorously non-subjective, which I understand because that is its premise.

A good pre-amp and (my bugbear) volume control in particular, should drive a power amp and then speakers better for audible improvements. It is just that the price point is so much lower with a pre-amp like this - balanced as well as rca .. independently driven (I understand). And Amir makes the points very clearly as you point out in your earlier post.

I brought up the Fosi because it measures better, but I doubt it sounds the same, and for me, no matter how well it measured with volume set to maximum, the lack of gradation at low volumes would be more of a negative than a bit better SINAD.

But still, there is something more at play here with valves providing amplification in the circuit, and I like how the T20 combines in my system.

Out of interest, what power amp are you using? I am using a 3e Audio A7 with the volume set to max. I find this combination excellent.

 

[Lorenzo]

Hello, I'm using a clone of the Breeze Audio Pass Labs A3, exactly like the one in the picture.

[Review] Breeze Audio Pass Clone

Breeze Audio Nelson Pass First Watt clone, review by Mark Wheeler on TNT-Audio - Internet HiFi magazine - www.tnt-audio.com

www.tnt-audio.com

This version is no longer available on AliExpress, and has been replaced by other versions.

The appearance is exactly the same, but my model has two power transformers instead of one.
2 x 26 Watts into 8 Ohms.
This fully satisfies me when combined with the T20.
It's a temporary setup for the summer on my patio, in addition to the one in my living room.

This setup particularly satisfies me because I prioritize very high-quality sound rather than sheer power.
I should add that this configuration includes a pair of Magnat Vector 203 / 91 dB speakers and,
as the source, a Hidizs AP80 Pro Max DAP, recommended by @amirm.

Hidizs AP80 Pro Max DAP Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Hidizs AP80 Pro Max stereo Digital Audio Player & DAC. It was sent to me by the company and is on sale for US $189. The pictures from company and elsewhere makes you think this is the size of a mobile phone but it is much smaller and lighter. It...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The recording formats are FLAC, High Res, and DSD. The equipment used clearly distinguishes between the different formats.

Finally, I'd like to add that it's a great pleasure to listen to music outdoors without any reverberation.

 

[RandomEar]

This setup particularly satisfies me because I prioritize very high-quality sound rather than sheer power.

If you prioritize high sound quality, you should absolutely not use that amp. The original was really, really bad already for a transistor amplifier. The clones aren't any better. Even good tube amps are better than that.

The recording formats are FLAC, High Res, and DSD. The equipment used clearly distinguishes between the different formats.

Those aren't all different formats. FLAC is losslessly compressed PCM, so called "high res" is also just PCM. Only DSD is actually a different format. They also won't sound different unless different masters were used. That is often the case for DSD, because it was meant to be pressed on SACDs which had a different audience than your typical CD release.

In any case, that amplifier is so bad and distorts so much that it would mask any potential differences there could be. It will definitely not "clearly distinguish" between different formats or masters.

Today, you can get extremely well performing and fully transparent amps for astonishingly small amounts of money. If you'd like to get actual High Fidelity reproduction out of your system, you should think about ditching the tube pre-amp and replacing that clone amp with a Mini 300 or an A5.

 

[DoubleCeeJay]

Hello all, following forum for several years, just created my account, first post. Greetings from Brazil, São Paulo.

After reading all this thread, I got a T20 two weeks ago. First 3 days on standard equipment, then someone here convince me to replace stock valves to 12AX7 ECC83 Genalex - Gold Lion. Stock valves improved voice over previous setup (upper midrange). Gold Lion also improves voice but brings excitement to midbass, bass and sub. You can feel the bassist striking the strings. There´s no placebo, T20 improves overall sound stage, I recommend to everyone. With T20 also got a volume dial and remote control. Evaluated on concerto (amazing clarity on Vivaldi Le quattro stagioni), jazz, 90´s dance music, reggae, bossa nova, blues.

Setup on this audition: Yamaha CD S-303 -> RCA to P10 -> T20 -> Yamaha HS8 (P10 output)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------> JL Audio Subwoofer (RCA output)

 

[Pulkass]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the AIYIMA stereo tube based balanced preamplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $180.
View attachment 482049
This is an unexpected and attractive design! I love the large and stylish volume control which can be managed using the supplied remote control. The volume function is a bit overloaded with it being power button, the input selector, and mute but is manageable. The back really surprised me:
View attachment 482050
Did not expect XLR balanced input and out let alone trigger support! The included external supply is pretty small and nicely sports a ton of safety logos which inspire confidence.

I must say, my bias is that such a products are horror shows when it comes to measurements. Company shows measurements that are too good to be true for the class. Let's see if we can verify them.

AIYIMA T20 Preamp Measurements
I started with the XLR in/out and set the input to 4 volts, and adjusted the volume to get the same voltage out:
View attachment 482051

I expected a SINAD of 40 to 60 dB but here, we are at 81 dB! Yes, we have more distortion than a solid state design but if one wants that, it would not be a tube product. Using RCA produces similar performance:
View attachment 482052

In the interest of time, I focused on balanced I/O from here on starting with SNR measurement:
View attachment 482053
Wow, this is quite good! I don't think I have tested a tube product with such low noise.

Frequency response is also very good for class:
View attachment 482054

As is crosstalk:
View attachment 482055

IMD test shows higher noise than state of the art transistor pre-amp but again, for this class it is quite good:
View attachment 482056

I expected some increase in distortion at low frequencies but it is less than what I thought we would see:
View attachment 482057

The digitally control volume produces perfect channel matching:
View attachment 482058

Conclusions
Amazing what happens when a company is focused on proper engineering building a tube product. No unnecessary noise and distortion are thrown in there as is the standard for this class of product. Modernization is in play with balanced input/output, remote control, digital volume control/display and trigger automation support. Really, can't ask AIYIMA to do more. They show that using tubes in an amplifier doesn't need to bring with it embarrassment in objective performance.

I am going to recommend the AIYIMA T20 preamplifier. Kudos for the company showing that such a product can be done well, outclassing many solid state products!
------------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

I have it, not sounding bad at all, but doesn't reach at all Topping pre 90 heights!