AIYIMA T20 Tube Pre-amplifier Review

[SMen]

But : Wiim streamer-dac-t20 pre amp-then to Kali Audio lp60ii. All connected with xlr cable, this way l lose a lot of signal, is the T20 fault or a bad XLR cable? Now Wiim streamer-dac - Kali. Enormous signal (!)

The Wiim to t20, connected with xlr I am presuming with a converter - must be low output to the t20 surely?

 

[Pulkass]

The Wiim to t20, connected with xlr I am presuming with a converter - must be low output to the t20 surely?

No, all balanced input and output and cables.

 

[Pulkass]

Finally put back the tubed T20 pre amp on my main system. Wiim pro streamer goes to SMSL do 200 pro dac. Then to T20. Then to electronic x over. Then to 3 stereo amps. All XLR cables. One crown sl 1200 on mono and low passed for 18 inch sub. Signal is taken from rca out of smsl 200, never done before, the signal amount is enormous - setting is All out- bass is absolutely enormous have to keep volume on the Crown at 4. My question is : all out on the dac is somewhat inferior than Balanced out only ????

 

[kazsud]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the AIYIMA stereo tube based balanced preamplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $180.
View attachment 482049
This is an unexpected and attractive design! I love the large and stylish volume control which can be managed using the supplied remote control. The volume function is a bit overloaded with it being power button, the input selector, and mute but is manageable. The back really surprised me:
View attachment 482050
Did not expect XLR balanced input and out let alone trigger support! The included external supply is pretty small and nicely sports a ton of safety logos which inspire confidence.

I must say, my bias is that such a products are horror shows when it comes to measurements. Company shows measurements that are too good to be true for the class. Let's see if we can verify them.

AIYIMA T20 Preamp Measurements
I started with the XLR in/out and set the input to 4 volts, and adjusted the volume to get the same voltage out:
View attachment 482051

I expected a SINAD of 40 to 60 dB but here, we are at 81 dB! Yes, we have more distortion than a solid state design but if one wants that, it would not be a tube product. Using RCA produces similar performance:
View attachment 482052

In the interest of time, I focused on balanced I/O from here on starting with SNR measurement:
View attachment 482053
Wow, this is quite good! I don't think I have tested a tube product with such low noise.

Frequency response is also very good for class:
View attachment 482054

As is crosstalk:
View attachment 482055

IMD test shows higher noise than state of the art transistor pre-amp but again, for this class it is quite good:
View attachment 482056

I expected some increase in distortion at low frequencies but it is less than what I thought we would see:
View attachment 482057

The digitally control volume produces perfect channel matching:
View attachment 482058

Conclusions
Amazing what happens when a company is focused on proper engineering building a tube product. No unnecessary noise and distortion are thrown in there as is the standard for this class of product. Modernization is in play with balanced input/output, remote control, digital volume control/display and trigger automation support. Really, can't ask AIYIMA to do more. They show that using tubes in an amplifier doesn't need to bring with it embarrassment in objective performance.

I am going to recommend the AIYIMA T20 preamplifier. Kudos for the company showing that such a product can be done well, outclassing many solid state products!
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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

Does this have a good tube sound or does it not show the tube side as much?

 

[Pulkass]

Does this have a good tube sound or does it not show the tube side as much?

I have it, doesn't show tubic sound. In that respect l prefer the Fosi audio major pre amp, love kristall highs.

 

[SMen]

Does this have a good tube sound or does it not show the tube side as much?

"Good tube sound"? So many tube amplifiers sound different from each other ... and many of the best ones don't sound like "tubes" at all.

For me, and I am not sure it is an enhancement, I use it because broadcast voices sound more natural for some reason - more body. Same with strings (for me subjectively since you ask for a subjective opinion). But I don't get "warmth" or "air" or anything additionally "holographic" that people rave about with tubes!

I get a remote control - easy to view display - balanced outputs for the balanced inputs of my amplifier. No nonsense for such an inexpensive amplifier. The tubes are used in the pre-amplification circuit. Not there for decoration or to distort.

 

[Pulkass]

The Wiim to t20, connected with xlr I am presuming with a converter - must be low output to the t20 surely?

Wiim is connected via coax to a separate fully differential Dac - smsl do200 pro, then out via xlr to the t20 tube pre amp!

 

[edzoba]

Let me share with you my fully modded T20 story. I started with tubes and reached Tung-sol (not far...) Parallel I went through 2107, 2134, 2604, OracleII-02, Akliam AK05, Orange DD opamps and finally-as a courtesy of John from Burson-V7Vs. Then I have replaced all Samxon caps by Soner Audio to Audio Note electrolites (14pcs), also 3 DIP8 sockets to BeCu gold plated ones. Finally DC caps (from Panasonic) to a blend of Mundorf Evo Oil and silver mica. It looks a bit madmax, but as expected the sonic result is satisfactory to put it mildly Special thanks to extraclassic and cookieloco88 on diyadio.com for motivation and guidance. Also John B. for the opportunity to possess the red gems.

 

[RandomEar]

Welcome to ASR @edzoba. Neither the op amps nor the caps have any influence on the sound of the pre amp. The tubes maybe, but mostly if they are driven into distortion - which shouldn't happen during normal operation of a pre-amp. Here are some links to read up on:

Audible difference in high-end capacitors? - ABX samples

As announced long ago the last part on the subject of audibility of capacitor upgrade in crossovers. The comparison ranges from a very cheap, decades-old film capacitor to an expensive high-end capacitor. As promised, this time there are short audio samples of each capacitor (in a simple...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Does Op-amp Rolling Work? [Video]

In this video I "upgrade" the 57 cent op-amp in the Douk A5 stereo amplifier with a $49 one. Does it make a measured difference? Watch to find out: Test review at: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/does-op-amp-rolling-work.61518/ Please subscribe to the channel. It...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Does Op-amp Rolling Work?

When I post my last video on review of Douk A5 amplifier, I mentioned that rolling (changing) op-amp ICs in there is fruitless. I got have a dozen comments under that video in youtube asking why so I thought I experiment again with the A5. Note that I have done the same testing with both DACs...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Discrete OpAmp Review: Sonic Imagery vs Sparkos

Recently I reviewed the Nord Three SE 1ET400A Dual Mono Stereo Amplifier. That unit came with the Sonic Imagery's 990ENH discrete operational amplifier ("opamp") in the buffer stage (pre-amplifier). The owner then ordered a set of Sparkos Pro SS2590 discrete opamps. This gave me a chance to...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Sparkos SS3602 Opamp Rolling In Fosi P4

This is a detailed measurements of effect of swapping the stock NE5532P op-amp in Fosi P4 preamplifier with Sparkos SS3602 "discrete" opamp. The SS3602 costs US $79.80 and the NE5532P, US $0.47. Swapping opamps in P4 is more challenging due to back connectors/switches that need to be...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[edzoba]

Welcome to ASR @edzoba. Neither the op amps nor the caps have any influence on the sound of the pre amp. The tubes maybe, but mostly if they are driven into distortion - which shouldn't happen during normal operation of a pre-amp. Here are some links to read up on:

Audible difference in high-end capacitors? - ABX samples

As announced long ago the last part on the subject of audibility of capacitor upgrade in crossovers. The comparison ranges from a very cheap, decades-old film capacitor to an expensive high-end capacitor. As promised, this time there are short audio samples of each capacitor (in a simple...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Does Op-amp Rolling Work? [Video]

In this video I "upgrade" the 57 cent op-amp in the Douk A5 stereo amplifier with a $49 one. Does it make a measured difference? Watch to find out: Test review at: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/does-op-amp-rolling-work.61518/ Please subscribe to the channel. It...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Does Op-amp Rolling Work?

When I post my last video on review of Douk A5 amplifier, I mentioned that rolling (changing) op-amp ICs in there is fruitless. I got have a dozen comments under that video in youtube asking why so I thought I experiment again with the A5. Note that I have done the same testing with both DACs...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Discrete OpAmp Review: Sonic Imagery vs Sparkos

Recently I reviewed the Nord Three SE 1ET400A Dual Mono Stereo Amplifier. That unit came with the Sonic Imagery's 990ENH discrete operational amplifier ("opamp") in the buffer stage (pre-amplifier). The owner then ordered a set of Sparkos Pro SS2590 discrete opamps. This gave me a chance to...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Sparkos SS3602 Opamp Rolling In Fosi P4

This is a detailed measurements of effect of swapping the stock NE5532P op-amp in Fosi P4 preamplifier with Sparkos SS3602 "discrete" opamp. The SS3602 costs US $79.80 and the NE5532P, US $0.47. Swapping opamps in P4 is more challenging due to back connectors/switches that need to be...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Thanks for the welcome and sharing those articles! In my experience with T20, opamps made significant and consistent difference in a small group blind test. Akliam AK05, Orange DD and Burson was on comparison. We started with AK05, one of the members wanted to gome because he considered the rig unsuitable for the test purpose. Bursons made them smile. Like so many others mine is just an opinion

 

[RandomEar]

Thanks for the welcome and sharing those articles! In my experience with T20, opamps made significant and consistent difference in a small group blind test. Akliam AK05, Orange DD and Burson was on comparison. We started with AK05, one of the members wanted to gome because he considered the rig unsuitable for the test purpose. Bursons made them smile. Like so many others mine is just an opinion

You should really check out the links I posted. There really isn't a plausible mechanism for the differences you describe to exist. Apart from op amps severely distorting or oscillating due to being a bad fit for a circuit, they will all perform well enough to be audibly transparent. These chips all have bandwidths in the MHz range, rise times more than an order of magnitude better than required for audio applications and noise and distortion so incredibly small (unless overdriven) that no listening test would ever be able to detect it.

Doing reliable, controlled listening tests which give consistent results isn't an easy thing to do, especially at home. Due to echoic memory being only a couple of seconds, you need pretty much instant switching to allow for a fair comparison. Listening to setups a couple of minutes apart or using long listening sessions to evaluate "details" will give you exactly the opposite of what you would expect: Results will end up unreliable and biased.

Audio Blind Testing - You Are Doing It Wrong! (Video)

Just uploaded a video on the basics of performing controlled tests in audio. It was motivated by saving myself text in having to write all of this down when telling someone who to do these tests right. And as a counter to a few online personalities to keep saying they do "blind" tests yet when...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[edzoba]

Hifi is like religion. Part of our set of values Can create serious arguments. One can believe in data, other his/her own ears. i.m.o. the measured parameters does not cover the full spectrum of the flow that music brings to us. But I'm not here to start a religious controversy 4 sure, maybe choosen a wrong platform to share(?)

 

[RandomEar]

Hifi is like religion. Part of our set of values Can create serious arguments. One can believe in data, other his/her own ears. i.m.o. the measured parameters does not cover the full spectrum of the flow that music brings to us. But I'm not here to start a religious controversy 4 sure, maybe choosen a wrong platform to share(?)

Religion works because you can neither prove nor disprove the existence of an all mighty being. The same is not true for HiFi and the question of audibility of certain parameters. There's ample evidence and scientific literature pertaining to the most relevant questions of psychoacoustics and hearing.

What brings you joy and "flow" is the content of the music, the environment in which you listen, your mood of the day and also biased impressions about the equipment you use. I'm not disputing that tinkering and getting the (placebo) impression of having improved your system doesn't bring you joy. It's just that this is a science-minded forum and posting opinions and impressions suggesting things which are factually incorrect will result in some pushback.

 

[SMen]

Hifi is like religion. Part of our set of values Can create serious arguments. One can believe in data, other his/her own ears. i.m.o. the measured parameters does not cover the full spectrum of the flow that music brings to us. But I'm not here to start a religious controversy 4 sure, maybe choosen a wrong platform to share(?)

The arguments here can get quite tiresome but your post and responses have been measured. I'm interested in your blind testing.

While it might be tempting to try and pick flaws in this, I'm from the camp that says that this is the "fun" part of HiFi and to be encouraged. Group think can play a part though.

I stopped at Tung-sols too. I also put in a nice linear for the placebo effect ... very happy. Greater sense of naturalness all round since I introduced the T20 with no soggy anything, or muddy such and such ... or airy holographic what nots!

 

[edzoba]

The arguments here can get quite tiresome but your post and responses have been measured. I'm interested in your blind testing.

While it might be tempting to try and pick flaws in this, I'm from the camp that says that this is the "fun" part of HiFi and to be encouraged. Group think can play a part though.

I stopped at Tung-sols too. I also put in a nice linear for the placebo effect ... very happy. Greater sense of naturalness all round since I introduced the T20 with no soggy anything, or muddy such and such ... or airy holographic what nots!

Just asked RandomEar to delete my posts in a DM I missed the door.

 

[SMen]

Just asked RandomEar to delete my posts in a DM I missed the door.

Ah okay. It is a bit difficult coming on here and getting a barrage! But again ... I thought the blind testing bit was worth a discussion. Happy listening.

 

[edzoba]

I

Ah okay. It is a bit difficult coming on here and getting a barrage! But again ... I thought the blind testing bit was worth a discussion. Happy listening.

As you, I intended to be here to learn. But did not do enough preliminary studies on the forum's spirituality 4 sure DM sent.

 

[Winemaker]

Hifi is like religion. Part of our set of values Can create serious arguments. One can believe in data, other his/her own ears. i.m.o. the measured parameters does not cover the full spectrum of the flow that music brings to us. But I'm not here to start a religious controversy 4 sure, maybe choosen a wrong platform to share(?)

While acknowledging that numbers are incontrovertible and that scientific data is beyond debate (even though in the scientific field there are still many things that cannot be explained—irritable bowel syndrome being a prime example, whose genesis remains unexplained to this day, yet it is still science), I believe there is a personal component that varies for each individual. This component, stemming from one's life experience, causes certain things to affect us differently and trigger distinct reactions (whether these specific things are present or replaced by others). This cannot always be explained empirically or through numbers, but it exists nonetheless. After all, when large groups participate in blind listening tests and, without being influenced, all respond the same way, that has to mean something.

I believe that every 'numerical' review should include a section dedicated to personal listening, detached from cold numbers, to describe what that listening experience evoked in us. This has nothing to do with measurements, but is rather the product of personal background. Ultimately, music should perform the art of maieutics on each listener, extracting from the musical folds what cold measuring instruments cannot perceive or see, and what no measuring instrument ever will.

 

[Mike123]

I believe that every 'numerical' review should include a section dedicated to personal listening, detached from cold numbers, to describe what that listening experience evoked in us.

This doesn't make sense. If I see Amir's measurements and take my own, and theirs differ only slightly, then my device is fine. If they differ significantly, then my device (or his ) is faulty. And what do the emotions of an unknown person from another country with completely different emotions and memories than mine mean to me? Are he happy? Well, I'm happy for him . But this doesn't tell me anything about what I would experience if I used the same device.

 

[edzoba]

This doesn't make sense. If I see Amir's measurements and take my own, and theirs differ only slightly, then my device is fine. If they differ significantly, then my device (or his ) is faulty. And what do the emotions of an unknown person from another country with completely different emotions and memories than mine mean to me? Are he happy? Well, I'm happy for him . But this doesn't tell me anything about what I would experience if I used the same device.

Do you choose a car by power and length? How do you measure comfort? Drivability? What do you think/feel/measure about Julia Roberts saying: "Man, this baby must corner like it's on rails!" (Pretty woman-Lotus Esprit)