AIYIMA T20 Tube Pre-amplifier Review

[ICIETDIYEUR]

Personally, I think that if I had been the designer of the T20 my boss would probably have fired me

 

[Tontom]

Personally, I think that if I had been the designer of the T20 my boss would probably have fired me

If you were the designer of your speakers, you would certainly ...

 

[SMen]

Personally, I think that if I had been the designer of the T20 my boss would probably have fired me

That is interesting though that you are using the FiiO BR15 R2R.

 

[ICIETDIYEUR]

Let's just say I also have ears and not just eyes...

 

[pdodo2003]

Thank you Smen , i forgot to say i bought allready the IXI Xpower 12V power source . I ordered a pair of PSVANE Ax27 - but Art Series (seems there is a newer model) , i bought from PSVANE directly . I just have to wait for them to arrive and i'll post the situation after .

 

[SMen]

Thank you Smen , i forgot to say i bought allready the IXI Xpower 12V power source . I ordered a pair of PSVANE Ax27 - but Art Series (seems there is a newer model) , i bought from PSVANE directly . I just have to wait for them to arrive and i'll post the situation after .

Following your first question, I think there might be a theoretical advantage to OPA1656 vs the LME49720 but this is just based on my very basic efforts to understand such things - they are better than the chosen ones for handling higher impedance from the valve's outputs apparently. I am putting my keeping them in place entirely down to my bias!

There has been a lot of conjecture on this thread about, for example, running the valves in a way that was not going to exploit the 'pleasurable' aspect of 2nd harmonic distortion (so I am personally not tempted by tube rolling). There is something about valves that provokes ire, and the FiiO warmer thread here was closed because "ire" became "wrath" on that thread! You may have seen that.

Thank heavens for reviews like this one though (page one)! Having bought a T20 to try and been extremely surprised by it, I'm glad the measurements supported my own impressions (simply excellent channel balance and it drives my power amp well). I have felt absolutely no desire to tinker with anything since changing the power supply, but another member here found no improvement when they did likewise. I hope you feel the same way I did after your changes though ... I look forward to reading.

 

[LtMandella]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the AIYIMA stereo tube based balanced preamplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $180.

Conclusions
Amazing what happens when a company is focused on proper engineering building a tube product. No unnecessary noise and distortion are thrown in there as is the standard for this class of product. Modernization is in play with balanced input/output, remote control, digital volume control/display and trigger automation support. Really, can't ask AIYIMA to do more. They show that using tubes in an amplifier doesn't need to bring with it embarrassment in objective performance.

I am going to recommend the AIYIMA T20 preamplifier. Kudos for the company showing that such a product can be done well, outclassing many solid state products!
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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

OK, I could not resist. Bought it. I enjoy experimenting with inexpensive preamp kits and medium expensive dac/preamps to see how they compare. And I build amp kits also, therefore I usually have more amps than preamps. So I can always use another decent sounding preamp. At the moment I have two JLH HOOD 1969 amp kits in progress, and a recently completed PASS ACA amp kit that has balanced inputs. Plus I have another tube preamp from kit, the famous Grounded Grid preamp, to compare with.

Thanks to Amir for the review!

 

[LtMandella]

OK, I could not resist. Bought it. I enjoy experimenting with inexpensive preamp kits and medium expensive dac/preamps to see how they compare. And I build amp kits also, therefore I usually have more amps than preamps. So I can always use another decent sounding preamp. At the moment I have two JLH HOOD 1969 amp kits in progress, and a recently completed PASS ACA amp kit that has balanced inputs. Plus I have another tube preamp from kit, the famous Grounded Grid preamp, to compare with.

Thanks to Amir for the review!

I bought this in part for the ability it has to convert RCA input into balanced output, and I can confirm that functionality. It does work.
After listening tests using SMSL SU-1 as source and comparing to CREEK passive attenuator vs. accuphase C-3850 clone vs. Grounded Grid tube preamp using three amps: Musical Fidelity A1-2008 version and QUAD 909 (both have only RCA inputs) and PASS ACA mono pair (balanced inputs), I think it is good, but does not beat either the passive attenuator nor the accuphase.
Having said that however, the supplied PSVANE tubes are not typically raved about. And I do have some of the more famous varieties of those tubes available so I will do some swapping.

 

[SMen]

I bought this in part for the ability it has to convert RCA input into balanced output, and I can confirm that functionality. It does work.
After listening tests using SMSL SU-1 as source and comparing to CREEK passive attenuator vs. accuphase C-3850 clone vs. Grounded Grid tube preamp using three amps: Musical Fidelity A1-2008 version and QUAD 909 (both have only RCA inputs) and PASS ACA mono pair (balanced inputs), I think it is good, but does not beat either the passive attenuator nor the accuphase.
Having said that however, the supplied PSVANE tubes are not typically raved about. And I do have some of the more famous varieties of those tubes available so I will do some swapping.

When first using this T20, I missed a switch option to bypass the valves for comparison purposes. I have a balanced passive stepped attenuator which I simply can't 'hear' when I put it into my system. I have an SMSL Raw Dac1 which probably does not 'sound' dissimilar in character to your SMSL SU-1, but my goal was to achieve a bit more body/naturalness to go with the DAC's pristine clarity - subjective I know but born out of a slight dissatisfaction.

I picked up a FiiO K13 R2R and the interesting bit here has nothing to do with the digital conversion - it is because the FiiO has a proper fully balanced analogue pre-amp stage to drive the balanced and RCA outs, using the same volume control chip used in the Aiyima T20: NJW1195A. So running the FiiO now direct to my power amp, I have a reasonably close approximation to that bypass switch I wanted on the T20.

To my surprise, the T20 is still useful: I was having trouble matching dialog audibility in a stereo mix of a movie I was watching with the kids such that we were not all putting our hands over our ears when effects kicked in! The Aiyima cured this, with no sense of distortion or frequency response shifts it lifted dialog and gave effects more space.

I put in TUNG-SOL 12AX7 valves and a linear power supply, and since I have felt no desire to change - so I will be interested if you try similar.

 

[ICIETDIYEUR]

Hi

See here ->

Bye

 

[jareinertson]

Thanks. I should have known that.

That reminds me of the SMSL sound colour feature on some DACs. They are at most -60dB, as per a chart provided here by @JSmith last year. At that level 2nd and 3rd harmonics are noticeable, but not significantly only just (from subjective personal experience).

Yes. The SMSL RAW-MDA1 I have has these “sound color” setting options. They are very subtle (difficult to hear…) but fun to play with from time to time.

 

[jareinertson]

Yes the fun of tubes and transformers based gear is not technical perfection, but rather minimalism. Something that as a diyer I personally found amazing... Full range loudspeakers too...

Btw, It makes sense to mix opamps DSP and tubes if the target is mass production of a low cost piece of gear. An all tubes equivalent of this AIYIMA would probably cost x100 more... I don't even know if AUDIO RESEARCH still exists...

Obviously too, this preamp is trying to make happy both subjectivists and objectivists, which imho IS not a good marketing strategy, as we all know that all people tend to love what others hate... Probably for this reason the votes are reflecting this, and nobody seem to love nor hate too much enough this AIYIMA...

Audio Research does indeed still exist

 

[jareinertson]

The trigger works fine with Van Damme Tour grade Classic cable and TRS 3.5mm

Also upgraded the valves today.
The Horizon 12ax7-at arrived today.


Immediately notable changes in resolution with the sound. Much more detailed that the already good ECC83 stock tubes.


Cleaner vocals, bass is not as boomy, a much more precise sound with leading edges of notes having more attack and bite. I have left the opa828 in the T20 for now. These are not as warm compared to the stock ECC83, certainly more analytical, slightly drier sounding upon first impressions than the red ECC83 stock valve.


I like them. Vocals are very textured too as with all things source is key and even just listening to talk radio from the Filo SR11 through a Topping E50 dac, the voices come across very, very accurately and clean. Very clean valves. Good soundstage with more accuracy towards the depth which is also deeper, better separation, much more pinpoint overall also good clean air, faster too, more speed to the sound, sharper in a good way, not harsh. Yes, impressive. I am using the Muses 02 in the Aiyima A20 and they are already tight, clean precise sounding chips. These valves may also work with the SX52B full discreet op amp adding a little more bite to their softer leading edges on the notes and bass. Great with faster more intricately arranged music too as well as the more simple stuff, doesn’t seem to miss a trick.

Very impressed overall to be honest and now won’t be touching the T20 with the opa828/Horizon 12AX7-AT combination. Good over all system synergy too with the rather budget but very good Q Acoustics 3020i speakers. The Q Acoustics 3030c will also work well here, just as a recommendation. I also think the Fiio K13 R2R might just be a doozy here too.View attachment 487514

Nice setup

 

[Schlippwhip68]

Which one works better with the Horizon tubes - Muses02 or opa828? I am still enjoying the stock opamps with Sylvania long grays. I am planning to try the Horizons as well.

I really like the op828 to be honest. Its a super neutral chip and very fast (high slew rate). It has the best bass control on any chip I have heard so far and cheaper than the now discontinued Muses 02. The Muses 02 also works very well but it has a very low slew rate and so switching dynamically is a little slower and when you compare them both you will hear it. It will sound like the same track is playing slower with the Muses 02.

I have the opa828 in my Fosi Audio P4 preamp too and that thing sounds super clean! The bass is incredibly precise and vocals have space as the instrument separation is not blurry in any capacity. I match the P4 with the Audiolab M-PWR and Q Acoustic 5020 and it is a killer combo for precision and clarity.

Both op amps work well with the Horizon valves so it just depends what your tastes are. The Muses 02 will give you a slightly softer, warmer presentation while the opa828 will increase in instrument precision and overall clarity with excellent bass control, much more defined than the Muses 02.

 

[pdodo2003]

Hello. I just wanted to share some updates in hopes maybe someone can benefit from this info .

So my sistem is source PC Foobar player - Topping D50 III Dac - Aiyima T20 preamp - Audiophonics class D amplifier LPA S450 purify chip - Polk Audio R700 speakers .

It goes like this, I was very skeptical about tubes and opamp swapping , and so far . I said let's try some , big was my surprise about the impact it makes . In my opinion the opamp is more noticeable as compared with tubes , at least for Aiyima preamp .

I will elaborate , I tried Psvane Horizon tubes in aiyima T20 with stock opamps , yes the treble got hotter , cleaner but also a lot of fatiguing and could not last an hour of listening .
Then I tried the Art Series PsVane , the sound was much better , treble was acceptable , not so harsh , but still not what I wanted ...
After that I tried the Opa 2134 with art series tubes , my God the bass wass absolutely phenomenal at low volumes , soundstage , everything superb . That was until I got the volume up - 90 db , at that volume the bass was extremely loud and punchy , but it covered the mids , bot a good sound at all , again at high volumes 90-95 db , until around 75 db was superb . In this combination I tried also the Horizons tubes , yes got back the detail and spark , but the bass remained too strong ( I know how it sounds) .
Last I tried the Opa 828 and Art series , and I found this to be the perfect match at least for me . The sound is warmish , great detail, soundstage and the sound is fast , bass is exactly right, not too hard but no slouch in any case.

So what the idea was , that in my sistem I really could hear the difference between opamps and tubes , and the audible differences are real . I would be curios of Art series tubes and Burson Classic opamps ...! I think that would be interesting , but at the moment I will stay as is for now , the price for the Bursons are substantial.

Thank you

 

[RandomEar]

Hello. I just wanted to share some updates in hopes maybe someone can benefit from this info .

So my sistem is source PC Foobar player - Topping D50 III Dac - Aiyima T20 preamp - Audiophonics class D amplifier LPA S450 purify chip - Polk Audio R700 speakers .

It goes like this, I was very skeptical about tubes and opamp swapping , and so far . I said let's try some , big was my surprise about the impact it makes . In my opinion the opamp is more noticeable as compared with tubes , at least for Aiyima preamp .

I will elaborate , I tried Psvane Horizon tubes in aiyima T20 with stock opamps , yes the treble got hotter , cleaner but also a lot of fatiguing and could not last an hour of listening .
Then I tried the Art Series PsVane , the sound was much better , treble was acceptable , not so harsh , but still not what I wanted ...
After that I tried the Opa 2134 with art series tubes , my God the bass wass absolutely phenomenal at low volumes , soundstage , everything superb . That was until I got the volume up - 90 db , at that volume the bass was extremely loud and punchy , but it covered the mids , bot a good sound at all , again at high volumes 90-95 db , until around 75 db was superb . In this combination I tried also the Horizons tubes , yes got back the detail and spark , but the bass remained too strong ( I know how it sounds) .
Last I tried the Opa 828 and Art series , and I found this to be the perfect match at least for me . The sound is warmish , great detail, soundstage and the sound is fast , bass is exactly right, not too hard but no slouch in any case.

So what the idea was , that in my sistem I really could hear the difference between opamps and tubes , and the audible differences are real . I would be curios of Art series tubes and Burson Classic opamps ...! I think that would be interesting , but at the moment I will stay as is for now , the price for the Bursons are substantial.

Thank you

Repeat blind, level matched and with short switching times. You will be surprised how those "big differences" simply disappear. Louder simply sounds better, sighted testing gives you strongly biased results and our echoic memory is too short to reliably compare small differences in sound over more than a couple of seconds.

In case of tubes, there may be audible difference because their performance isn't stellar even for simple stuff like audio. Op amps? Nope.