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AIYIMA T20 Tube Pre-amplifier Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Yes - I'd quote this as pretty much summing it up too from Amir's review:
"I expected a SINAD of 40 to 60 dB but here, we are at 81 dB! Yes, we have more distortion than a solid state design but if one wants that, it would not be a tube product."
It's just a great fun product that works - criticize it if you will for inaudible distortion ... but it sure does make voices and strings sound fuller bodied than when going directly from my DAC with volume control, or indeed my passive ladder volume control.
So what you really want is an effects device with a certain distortion characteristic. Nothing wrong with that - just admit it to yourself. Then there's plenty of options without having to buy an extra box that then isn't even adjustable in its characteristic. It's like buying a guitar distortion pedal with one fixed setting and no controls. Kinda silly, isn't it?
ICIETDIYEUR
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Exactly Ropeburn 
I know a bunch of free programs for PC that know how to do this and much more
I know a bunch of free programs for PC that know how to do this and much more
This is a misrepresentation of the review, and of the conclusions of the review, and even the measurements outlined in the review!
I mean, people have been complaining about distortion in the T20 being below the thresholds of human hearing and what is the point in that, while at the same time saying that it is an effects box with a distortion characteristic and what is the point in that? This is kinda silly too don't you think?
Channel balance is really excellent at all volumes as far as I can tell listening. Believe me, this is not my kind of product - bought on a hunch - but I'm not getting answers from comments about bias or indeed it's measured distortion characteristics. Maybe just a well designed pre-amp that happens to use valves - for a very low price.
You posted at the same time as me ... exactly my pointExactly Ropeburn
I know a bunch of free programs for PC that know how to do this and much more
-dial in the distortion levels as measured here into one of your free programs and report back here.Blind testing mind you ... volume matched ... and believe me at the levels measured in this review, I will have no conclusion other than to presume listening bias.
Dude. I wasn't referring to the review, but to what you said about the sound. This specifically, that's why I quoted only that paragraph:
If you really hear that, then it's distortion, of a type you like. And I'm telling you that you can get exactly that in better, adjustable ways, without being limited to the one fixed characteristic.
Regarding latter, that would be a different product to the one under review here. I'd be all for one of those if I did not have to go through a PC or Mac!
Have you come across any DACs with meaningful filters - I mean really useful filters. I've yet to hear of one ... again, a different product sure, but still. Has anyone come across one with a 'tube' filter option they would prefer to listen to?
No the interesting thing for me is:
1 - this is all taking place below audible hearing thresholds - SINAD is excellent as measured here surely / good enough to be inaudible surely?
2 - so perhaps I am just hearing a well designed pre-amp with excellent channel matching, and good xlr outputs to drive my 3e A7 amplifier? With merits vs a balanced passive pre-amp.
Perhaps there have been two many comments that are based on bias? Too many assumptions and presumptions.
I don't think the distortions people are referring to here (often) should be audible in this product. This would / should be interesting.
lol - you are passing the buck! There have been presumptions here about people hearing distortion. Yes, I am hearing more body vs the passive pre-amp but it may just be the active pre-amplification vs passive, and not distortion related.
There have been presumptions that have taken this thread down all kinds of rabbit holes related to audible distortion. Please don't take me down a listening bias rabbit hole!
Benefits of a well designed active line pre-amplifier good enough for me
! Even if it has valves in the circuit!
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Noske
Active Member
Is it? I guess I could google, but I actually don't know what a guitar distortion pedal does. From what you suggest, it plays around with the mix of harmonic distortion. I thought they were more than that, but I could be wrong. Could be interesting to see a FFT analysis. It'd probably come out making Carver Crimson or the Pass ACA looking pretty good.
A long long time ago (5+ years?), when SMSL first introduced sound colour into their DACs (magically making 2nd and 3rd harmonics in the digital domain in a variety of settings) there was some genuine consternation from some erudite commentators here about this at some complicated technical level which went whoosh straight over my head. I'll find it one day, probably not this side of Christmas.
Is that another type of effect that you may be referring to?
ICIETDIYEUR
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Hi.
We all have different 'levels' or 'qualities' of hearing as well as different preferences or tastes:
what matters is that the person concerned finds satisfaction.
Everything else is just 'dressing up' because the purpose of an audio device is to reproduce music that is appreciated by that person and nothing else
We all have different 'levels' or 'qualities' of hearing as well as different preferences or tastes:
what matters is that the person concerned finds satisfaction.
Everything else is just 'dressing up' because the purpose of an audio device is to reproduce music that is appreciated by that person and nothing else
AAAaarrgh! I've just taken a break from completing a backlog of PC compliance courses at work and what do I find here on ASR ????Hi.
We all have different 'levels' or 'qualities' of hearing as well as different preferences or tastes:
what matters is that the person concerned finds satisfaction.
Everything else is just 'dressing up' because the purpose of an audio device is to reproduce music that is appreciated by that person and nothing else
(Not that you are entirely wrong of course
).Noske
Active Member
AAAaarrgh! I've just taken a break from completing a backlog of PC compliance courses at work and what do I find here on ASR ????
(Not that you are entirely wrong of course
Not entirely wrong? Logically, completely right. It is a motherhood statement - it is hard to disagree with. And therefore, actually quite vacuous.
Noske
Active Member
Does the T20 exhibit overtones?
Of course it does. Not even "good" ones either. 3rd harmonic dominating is not what you want for "tube sound". Gladly, it isn't high enough to be audibly relevant. Heh.
In all seriousness could you reference this to measurements?
- Explain "3rd harmonic dominating" as opposed to 2nd from the measurements?
- And explain not "high enough to be audibly relevant"
Regarding point 1: I understood this not to be the case. 2nd harmonic dominating but questionably audible...
and regarding point 2 - supports the questionably audible, but kind of makes 90 % of the opinions on this thread totally irrelevant!
A good wind up
!Easily explained. From Amir's measurements, harmonics marked by me:In all seriousness could you reference this to measurements?
I genuinely come to this thread for enlightenment but not getting it I don't think here. I really would like to know / see it substantiated because I am not understanding it...
- Explain "3rd harmonic dominating" as opposed to 2nd from the measurements?
- And explain not "high enough to be audibly relevant"
Regarding point 1: I understood this not to be the case. 2nd harmonic dominating but questionably audible...
and regarding point 2 - supports the questionably audible, but kind of makes 90 % of the opinions on this thread totally irrelevant!
A good wind up
3rd harmonic (odd) is louder than the 2nd (even). Ideally for "tube sound", that is "pleasant" distortion, you'd want the 2nd be louder and the 3rd be lower. And then an evenly decaying spectrum above that. This here doesn't do that. Even the remaining spikes are 5th, 7th, and 9th harmonics. All odd. Meh. Why have tubes when the whole thing doesn't even show typical tube distortion?
Then, actual audibility: even the highest spike, the 3rd harmonic, is so low in level (-80dB), it will be inaudible in all but very high playback levels, and then it gets easily masked by everything else: speakers, room, ears.
So, you get exactly nothing from this device that resembles "tube sound". Neither is the distortion spectrum the "right" type, nor is it high enough to be relevant for listening. It's a nothingburger.
Compare to "proper" tube distortion
From this thread https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-world-tube-preamplifier-about-2-7-thd.18392/
That's what you'll want for "real tube sound". The difference should be easy to see. A nicely decaying spectrum with 2nd dominating, high enough to be barely audible. Overdrive it a little bit, and it becomes obvious.
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ICIETDIYEUR
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Hi.
Bravo and thank you Ropeburn: You have been able to summarize my remarks in a concise way that is much more understandable to all
All I want to say is that this device does meet expectations regarding a certain aesthetic, but absolutely not the expectations that is required of a device that would correctly reproduce the 'sound' of a tube device worthy of the name with a circuit designed in 'the rules of the art' and the 'technical constraints' from which it stems.
That said, at the price at which it is offered, only a well-designed software (provided that it is well understood and used) will be able to give a user the correct and expected results to simulate listening to a lamp device, but of course you will not have made any visual and aesthetic changes to your installation
Finally, the important thing is that this device pleases its user, that it has very correct measurements despite the use of tubes as Amirm has pointed out so well, although it does not technically bring the characteristics that this device should offer to the listener, i.e. a 'typical tube sound'
Bravo and thank you Ropeburn: You have been able to summarize my remarks in a concise way that is much more understandable to all
All I want to say is that this device does meet expectations regarding a certain aesthetic, but absolutely not the expectations that is required of a device that would correctly reproduce the 'sound' of a tube device worthy of the name with a circuit designed in 'the rules of the art' and the 'technical constraints' from which it stems.
That said, at the price at which it is offered, only a well-designed software (provided that it is well understood and used) will be able to give a user the correct and expected results to simulate listening to a lamp device, but of course you will not have made any visual and aesthetic changes to your installation
Finally, the important thing is that this device pleases its user, that it has very correct measurements despite the use of tubes as Amirm has pointed out so well, although it does not technically bring the characteristics that this device should offer to the listener, i.e. a 'typical tube sound'
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