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Age of Universe - Big Bang theory is childish and wrong

andreasmaaan

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#41
...unless the concepts of "something" and "nothing" themselves are odd/specific/misguided constructions that hinge on the very particular circumstances (physical, biological, linguistic, etc) in which we happen to find ourselves.
 

pkane

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#42
...unless the concepts of "something" and "nothing" themselves are odd/specific/misguided constructions that hinge on the very particular circumstances (physical, biological, linguistic, etc) in which we happen to find ourselves.
That is precisely it. Obviously, something exists, or else we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Therefore ‘nothing’, being the opposite of ‘something’, cannot be the state of the universe, or at least, not in the sense we mean ‘nothing’.
 

SIY

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#44
Is it possible that somewhere on a cosmology forum they are poking fun at ASR, same way that here on ASR we have our fun at the expense of the cable people and the audio voodoo crowd?
If they notice, sure. Nothing like non-physicists trying to argue about deep issues in physics using excerpts from Wikipedia.
 

DKT88

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#45
I'm not a physicist and have read several popular non-mathematical books on astrophysics and quantum mechanics. I am left unconvinced that the antirealistic (Copenhagen) interpretation of QM could be correct. Einstein was a realist and thought that quantum mechanics was incomplete and didn't buy the antirealistic stuff.
 

Snarfie

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#46
Same here

If it didn't exist what was there before? Whatever brought "it" to existence had to come from something.
Ther you touch a paradox Basicly you think in deterministic way ( as we all do) try to think in a superposition ( which for us is extreem dificult). It is the same thing with 2 dimensional beeings that try to figuer out a maze put the 3th dimension in an you see the way out imediatly. So probaly it is an non issiue (asking you what was ther before) for beeings that live in a supperposition (possible live in the 4th or higher dimension where you exist in muliple existence in time and space). Ha ha if time exist. I guess that living in a superposition is the same thing as boeddhisme tries to reach entlightment.
 
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Juhazi

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#47
Big Bang Theory is childish and wrong

Sheldon ?
No, this topic is not related to the TV series The Big Bang, and it's character PhD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheldon_Cooper
It was shown also here in Finland 2009-12, but I never watched (I'm too old to watch sitcoms)

About fiction, or actually folklore - we Finns have the saga Kalevala, which contains explanation for the beginning of universe.
A goldeneye duck made her nest on goddess Ilmatar's lap and laid six golden and one iron eggs. When Ilmatar moved, the eggs fell to sea and got broken. So were born land, water, air, sun, moon and stars. (Actually original saga tells that eggs were laid on the first man Väinämöinen's knee when he was already in the sea. Väinämöinen was son of goddess Ilmatar. (the saga obviously has some logical issues...)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalevala
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalevipoeg

An egg is most popular saga for the origin of universe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_egg
 

PierreV

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#48
I used to have opinions too, no I don't. Recommended reading for anyone who wants to ever express an opinion about "relativity" and anything that builds upon it, apparently conflicts with it or is in any way related.

https://www.amazon.com/Most-Incomprehensible-Thing-Introduction-Mathematics/dp/0957389469

Once you finish it, probably not earlier than 2020 and realize you still can't understand a thing in contemporary physics papers, you realize how pointless having any opinion is. :)
 

solderdude

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#49
It was shown also here in Finland 2009-12, but I never watched (I'm too old to watch sitcoms)
a great comedy series. Still aired today in the Netherlands. Absolutely love the series.

Understood the show has nothing to do with it but could not resist ... Sheldon ... childish and wonderfully wrong... had to make the comment.

My brain is too puny to really understand the universe and don't feel any need to theorise over its origin either. I reckon all 'theories' out there are probably far from the truth anyway... or simulated truth...
 

FrantzM

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#50
Ther you touch a paradox Basicly you think in deterministic way ( as we all do) try to think in a superposition ( which for us is extreem dificult). It is the same thing with 2 dimensional beeings that try to figuer out a maze put the 3th dimension in an you see the way out imediatly. So probaly it is an non issiue (asking you what was ther before) for beeings that live in a supperposition (possible live in the 4th or higher dimension where you exist in muliple existence in time and space). Ha ha if time exist. I guess that living in a superposition is the same thing as boeddhisme tries to reach entlightment.
I looooove ASR :D
I read your interesting reply ... The movie "Arrival" hints as such BTW... Regardless of how we superpose in my view and even if time is non linear.. Anything define a space, a universe, a state for anything to happen ... This space, thing, universe, etc ... may well be determined by the phenomenon still the existence suppose something ... a "pre" requisite.

After reading a few posts .. Now let me go listen to my femto-clock controlled DAC ... powered by my Nordost Quantum Purifier .. Its sound comes from a dark matter background :cool::)
 

watchnerd

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#51
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Well., that's what most scientists think now, or have calculated with man-made formulas. The molecules and nuclear particles, gravity, time etc. don't know anything about these formulas and reactions they should follow.
Does the sun need to be sentient in order to understand and obey the laws of physics?

Do I need to understand gravity to be affected by it?
 
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Juhazi

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#53
I used to have opinions too, no I don't.
...
Once you finish it, probably not earlier than 2020 and realize you still can't understand a thing in contemporary physics papers, you realize how pointless having any opinion is. :)
I agree and understand you. Actually I don't care what others think about theories, or about making theories. The universe obviously smiles inside when looking at this and other cosmological blabberings. By the way my neighbor is a professor in nuclear physics, has worked at CERN etc., but he has life too, playing Beatles songs with his band, taking care of grandchildren etc. I have never bothered to ask him about what he thinks about the "birth" of universe... now I must do that!
 

Ron Texas

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#54
I think that the universe has always existed and it is in a fluctuating state.
I am not a scientist, but I just can't take either theory - static or big bang. What we consider expansion is just a too local and short-time observation.

Philosophically it is also fruitless to think about WHY the universe exists (if it exists in the first place). The nature and universe, including life and evolution on the planet Earth, don't have any reason intrinsically, no agenda or purpose. It just exists.

PLEASE, keep this discussion polite and free of religious proclamations. If your explanation includes the creator (a god of some kind), that is okay to tell.
How is it that the big bang theory is childish? Click bait? No religious proclamations, but god is OK is contradictory. The end is near. Don't ask me why.
 

andreasmaaan

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#55
Does the sun need to be sentient in order to understand and obey the laws of physics?

Do I need to understand gravity to be affected by it?
Perhaps thinking in terms of natural laws, relying on binaries like something/nothing etc, are in fact components of our very limitation?
 

Snarfie

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#57
Ignorance is Bliss
 

watchnerd

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#58
Perhaps thinking in terms of natural laws, relying on binaries like something/nothing etc, are in fact components of our very limitation?
We didn't evolve to understand how the universe works in a sophisticated way, but biological evolution doesn't require theoretical knowledge.

Dolphins are not aquadynamic because they undersand fluid dynamics.
 

Snarfie

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#60
I agree and understand you. Actually I don't care what others think about theories, or about making theories. The universe obviously smiles inside when looking at this and other cosmological blabberings. By the way my neighbor is a professor in nuclear physics, has worked at CERN etc., but he has life too, playing Beatles songs with his band, taking care of grandchildren etc. I have never bothered to ask him about what he thinks about the "birth" of universe... now I must do that!
Some weeks ago i was invited at the Delft university Qtech to bring us uptodate regarding the progression to keep quantumbits as long as posible in an entangeld state. The first thing one of the proffesor said about this entangeld state/ superposition was If you think you understand this weird state you don't understand it.
 
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