After my first step, my first stumble. Help please.

[VrilDox]

This is my first post here, and I am a beginner in all audio matters.
I started to get interested in audio and to read the basics about 1 month ago, prior to that the only thing that I already had to listen some music was a speaker set from Edifier (M601DB).
I was sending the music directly to the speakers using the Bluetooth from my smartphone.
But then I read that it was better to get an external DAC and let it do the conversion.
Some days ago I found a used Topping d10 balanced been sold for a quarter of its normal price, and I bought it.
Now that I have it in my hand, I discovered why it is called balanced...
The speaker only have the following inputs: Line In, AUX, Optical, Coaxial, Bluetooth.
So, my first problem is: how can I connect this DAC to my speakers with maximum possible audio quality and without spending too much?

Thanks.

 

[Vini darko]

Hi welcome to asr. You need a ts to rca cable to connect the dac to the speakers.
Here's one for reasonable money that is nice and flexible and doesn't pick up noise. Use these visiosound in my system and have no complaints.
2 x 6.35mm 1/4" Mono Jack to 2 x RCA Phono Plug Twin Lead/Audio Signal Cable 1.5m https://amzn.eu/d/fHUwGce

 

[NTK]

The "official" words from @JohnYang1997 of Topping regarding using TRS to RCA adapters are "don't do it".

Topping D10 Balanced Review (USB DAC)

It was pretty obvious from the delay and conversation after Wolf's posting that something was being awaited. Out of the possibilities there aren't any more likely than the launch of the product itself

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Eetu]

Since the speaker has digital inputs the analog input likely goes through an extra AD conversion as well. So something like the WiiM Mini for the optical in would have been optimal.

 

[voodooless]

Since the speaker has digital inputs the analog input likely goes through an extra AD conversion as well. So something like the WiiM Mini for the optical in would have been optimal.

He can use what he already has: the D10 has both optical as well as coaxial output. At a quarter the price it’s a fine USB spdif interface.

 

[JayGilb]

Purchase a TOSLINK optical cable to interface the two units.

 

[Eetu]

He can use what he already has: the D10 has both optical as well as coaxial output. At a quarter the price it’s a fine USB spdif interface.

Oh you're right, totally forgot about that.

Still, if the OP has used BT via a smartphone the question is what the OP plans to use as source. For example using a smartphone connected via USB to the D10B seems like a step back from a usability point of view, compared to using the phone as remote only (+ an inexpensive streamer).

 

[Steven Holt]

If you keep the D10 I favor the TOSLINK option. Then again, u could sell the unit and get the DX3 pro plus and be a happy man.

 

[VrilDox]

@Vini darko , thanks for the suggestion. It is the kind of simple and affordable solution that I was looking for in a first moment. But...
as @NTK kindly remembered, the official word from Topping here is "don't do it" or as I read on their page "the balanced output of D10 balanced does not support any adapter to convert to single-ended".
Probably it would work as normal. But as I already made a small mistake, it would be wise on my part that with my limited knowledge I do not try anything that could transform it in a big mistake.

Now, I need to ask some questions:

@Eetu:

Since the speaker has digital inputs the analog input likely goes through an extra AD conversion as well.

Why the analog input should be converted to a digital input inside the speaker?
Should not be the opposite, only the digital input converted to an analog input?

@voodooless, @JayGilb, @Eetu, @Steven Holt:

"Use the s/pdif output of the D10 balanced"

When fed with a digital signal, the speaker should not use some kind of internal DAC at some point?
And if so, what is the advantage of having an external DAC like the D10 balanced?

Thanks, to all the users above that already replied my first post here. It is a really nice and welcoming community.

 

[voodooless]

When fed with a digital signal, the speaker should not use some kind of internal DAC at some point?

An internal DAC will always be used, regardless of the input. Even the analog input will sample the sound, process it and feed it to some DAC’s again.

And if so, what is the advantage of having an external DAC like the D10 balanced?

Nothing at all. That’s why the toslink option is the best. You didn’t waste any money, though since you can still use the D10.

You can also use coax. If you have an RCA cable at hand, you can test that right now.

 

[VrilDox]

As I said in my first post, for some time and until 3 weeks ago, I was listening music using only my smartphone connected to the speakers with the Bluetooth.
Then I had this "idea" to start to read and learn about the audio basics and in the process get, one step at a time, a better music experience.
One of the first things that every website said as a good first upgrade is to buy an external DAC.
In this process, I found this site, and a very recommended DAC here for beginners is the Topping D10 balanced.
Now I am told that the DAC does not give any advantage.

Some notes:
- I have some coaxial cables with RCA connectors and tested the s/pdif output of the DAC.
- After connecting my smartphone to the DAC (for test only) and then to the speakers with the coax cable, some music worked, some not.
- Reason: in the speaker manual, it is written: "Only the standard PCM audio signals (44.1KHz/48KHz) function in optical/coaxial mode". Some of my music is at 96k or more...

So, some questions:
- Why after being fed with an analog signal, instead only amplifying the signal, the speaker convert it again to digital then again to analog?
- Why every website says that I should buy an external DAC?
- In what hypothetical scenario, the D10 balanced has any utility to improve the sound?
- What can I do to get a music listening experience that is better from what I was using until now?

 

[voodooless]

So, some questions:
- Why after being fed with an analog signal, instead only amplifying the signal, the speaker convert it again to digital then again to analog?

Because it's a multichannel system with digital filters. And as it happens, the amplifier used, TAS575N, is a digital input chip and probably also houses the DSP.

- Why every website says that I should buy an external DAC?

Because that brings in advertiser money. ASR is different. It does not rely on advertisers. I doubt most people here would just claim that you always need a DAC.

- In what hypothetical scenario, the D10 balanced has any utility to improve the sound?

By using the digital output and setting your source to resample everything to say 48 kHz. That will let it play higher sample rate material as well and should sound excellent. Will it be audibly better than Bluetooth? Who knows... Technically it is the better solution though, but also a lot less convenient.

- What can I do to get a music listening experience that is better from what I was using until now?

Buy better speakers. They are the dominating factor in sound quality, next to your room. Alternatively, you could look at EQ'ing your speakers. For that, you'll need to run some EQ software on your phone, see here. And you'll also need to measure your speakers, so you know what you are correcting. A measurement microphone is needed in that case as well (plus some software like REW to use it).

 

[Steven Holt]

I made a mistake. I first thought that the D10 had a bluetooth receiver. I now see that it does not. This complicates matters. The signal chain is source>dac>amp>speakers. If the source is your phone, I don't see any way to get the signal to that DAC. You're in a pickle. The optical cable will not work (my bad). The only clear way out of it is to buy a DAC with bluetooth reception. Say, do u remember the dx3 pro plus that I mentioned? Your choices are clear : you either use the internal DAC of the Edifier, or u upgrade your DAC.

 

[voodooless]

I made a mistake. I first thought that the D10 had a bluetooth receiver. I now see that it does not. This complicates matters. The signal chain is source>dac>amp>speakers. If the source is your phone, I don't see any way to get the signal to that DAC. You're in a pickle.

Why, he had it working, it’s just a matter of having the right USB cable..

The optical cable will not work (my bad).

It will

The only clear way out of it is to buy a DAC with bluetooth reception.

What would be the point? The speaker already has Bluetooth .

Say, do u remember the dx3 pro plus that I mentioned? Your choices are clear : you either use the internal DAC of the Edifier, or u upgrade your DAC.

You will always use the internal DAC, getting another external one will not change that.

 

[Zek]

You will always use the internal DAC

And using a better external DAC will not improve anything in the sound, because everything depends on the DAC in the speakers and its limitations.

 

[Steven Holt]

This is going to be my last comment on this, I'm afraid that we've confused this poor guy enough. Take my Sprout 100. On the rear, it has DIGITAL INPUTS (USB AND OPTICAL) and it has ANALOG INPUTS (turntable and aux). Now, here's a surprise for you guys : only the digital inputs hit the internal DAC. The analog inputs go straight to the amp. Think about it : why in heaven's name would you send an analog signal from your turntable to the DAC? It stands to reason, if the OP sends a bluetooth signal to the EXTERNAL DAC, where it is decoded into analog and then sent to his speaker's amplifier via the ANALOG inputs, his music will be decoded using the EXTERNAL DAC. 'Everything depends on the DAC in the speakers' What the hell? What if u just have a turntable and records?? I am so hoping that one of our Technical Experts jumps into this thread and settles this issue.

 

[voodooless]

This is going to be my last comment on this, I'm afraid that we've confused this poor guy enough.

Please stop! The only one confusing the matter is you!

Take my Sprout 100. On the rear, it has DIGITAL INPUTS (USB AND OPTICAL) and it has ANALOG INPUTS (turntable and aux). Now, here's a surprise for you guys : only the digital inputs hit the internal DAC. The analog inputs go straight to the amp.

That is a totally different device. We’re not talking about the Sprout 100, we’re talking about a particular 2.1 active speaker system.

Think about it : why in heaven's name would you send an analog signal from your turntable to the DAC?

That was explained… 1: the speaker uses DSP for filtering, 2: the amps only have digital input.

It stands to reason, if the OP sends a bluetooth signal to the EXTERNAL DAC, where it is decoded into analog and then sent to his speaker's amplifier via the ANALOG inputs, his music will be decoded using the EXTERNAL DAC.

No!

'Everything depends on the DAC in the speakers' What the hell? What if u just have a turntable and records??

Then you connect it via RCA, and ADC digitizes it, it goes though a DSP for filtering, and then digitally into the amplifiers.

I am so hoping that one of our Technical Experts jumps into this thread and settles this issue.

People did, stop confusing with broken logic.