After 9 Months of Research - Rate My First System (Before I Buy It)!

[kemmler3D]

That might just be it, then. I can't pound music anyway. My wife's a bee itch. 85db is likely the max because all she wants in life is for me to suffer.

If she was really that bad you'd be listening to a pair of JBL Go 3s rigged for stereo.

...and you get the full effect of the bass, even if it's in such a contained space?

That's really where room correction comes in. Room modes cause inherent (large) peaks and dips in the bass, they're unavoidable in basically all rooms. The way to get rid of them is to put more sources of bass around the room and then smooth out the peaks and dips with EQ aka room correction.


In small rooms you can be missing chunks of bass and the only way to get them back is sometimes to add a sub.

That said, without room correction, a sub is no guarantee either.

WITH room correction and a sub, your odds of getting smooth bass are best. But sometimes it takes as many as 3 subs to get things really sorted out. The room dominates, and we do what we can.

I personally have 2 (cheap) subs and use room correction in my small office. I still have some nasty resonances but the bass is more or less even-ish.

The size of the room doesn't limit the bass per se, but it does tend to make things challenging when it comes to the quality of it.

 

[DSJR]

I actually am getting into vinyl from scratch. I received Radiohead's LP collection as a birthday gift a few years ago, and I have a longing for building up my vinyl collection all over again. Nothing wild...I have a buy list of about ~150-200 records. It's also why I am listening to advice and going wild with speakers, and toning down the expense on turntable and the unnecessary phono stage. I think I have landed on a Technics SL-100C for direct drive dependability (and I know where I can get it serviced in Ireland), and I am just undecided on cartridge now.

Upgrade the 95C stylus with an E or ML/SH as soon as possible. The bonded conical tip on the supplied VM95C isn't a dullard, but it's not as accurate up top quality-wise as the ellipticals upwards. If like it's ancestor such as the SL1500 original, it'll see your kids out!

 

[56suited]

Upgrade the 95C stylus with an E or ML/SH as soon as possible. The bonded conical tip on the supplied VM95C isn't a dullard, but it's not as accurate up top quality-wise as the ellipticals upwards. If like it's ancestor such as the SL1500 original, it'll see your kids out!

I'm actually somewhere in between, as I've gotten a local store to price match the Pro-Ject X1 B at ~850, but the SL100C plus the shibata stylus upgrade is ~1.1K. Decisions, decisions.

 

[DSJR]

I'm actually somewhere in between, as I've gotten a local store to price match the Pro-Ject X1 B at ~850, but the SL100C plus the shibata stylus upgrade is ~1.1K. Decisions, decisions.

Get the Technics, live with the stylus it comes with and when savings have improved and you're settled with the rest of the gear you've invested in, THEN update the stylus. I come from once lofty vinyl heights you see (I'm a Decca Gold Microscanner cartridge owner amongst other treasures, so totally potty/bonkers and beyond any redemption )

 

[gsp1971]

My good lad,

First of all welcome to ASR and enjoy the well-deserved audio journey you are about to embark on.

Just some random thoughts ...

There is another thread in ASR (can't seem to find it now) about what advice we would all give to our younger selves if we were to re-start our audio journey from the beginning.
Most people said they would spend more on better speakers really early in the journey, and spend less on silly audiophile thingies like expensive RCA cables and the like.
That says something doesn't it?

Doing the math, you must be in your mid-to-late fifties, like I am. Please, please, get yourself a good pair of speakers so that you won't have to do this again later in your life.

Oh, and make sure you buy well recorded releases. It makes such a difference. Are you aware of the DR Database?

Other than that, I am very happy to see you are so excited and enthusiastic about this new endeavor. Enjoy it to the max! All the best!

Amicably,

GSP

P.S
I am quoting you:

My tastes vary wildly. I am specific about music, but broad in interest. I just went from Frank Sinatra to Massive Attack to Buju Banton, for example.

Why??????????????????????????????

 

[56suited]

My good lad,

First of all welcome to ASR and enjoy the well-deserved audio journey you are about to embark on.

Just some random thoughts ...

There is another thread in ASR (can't seem to find it now) about what advice we would all give to our younger selves if we were to re-start our audio journey from the beginning.
Most people said they would spend more on better speakers really early in the journey, and spend less on silly audiophile thingies like expensive RCA cables and the like.
That says something doesn't it?

Doing the math, you must be in your mid-to-late fifties, like I am. Please, please, get yourself a good pair of speakers so that you won't have to do this again later in your life.

Oh, and make sure you buy well recorded releases. It makes such a difference. Are you aware of the DR Database?

Other than that, I am very happy to see you are so excited and enthusiastic about this new endeavor. Enjoy it to the max! All the best!

Amicably,

GSP

P.S
I am quoting you:

Why??????????????????????????????

It's my 'Liked Songs' playlist. It went to Hank Williams after that.

 

[gsp1971]

It's my 'Liked Songs' playlist. It went to Hank Williams after that.

well I guess variety is the spice of life

 

[AnalogSteph]

I'm currently using a ****** Bose SoundLink speaker like this on my desk right now, controlled via Bluetooth from my tablet...so anything I buy will sound excellent.

Had to look up what's inside these. Looks like twin beefy 37ish mm wideband speakers plus a weighted passive radiator? Seems decently service-friendly, too. No foam around cables as a potential negative.

Overall I'd say we've had plenty worse in the past as far as radio and such go. (I have one of these in the kitchen, which gets used a fair bit.) It's obviously not "proper hi-fi" yet, and some proper monitors will be able to go waaaay louder as well (keep in mind they're aiming for 85 dB average levels in a well-treated studio with considerable absorption).

Anyway, on the discussion re: sub or no sub... decent coverage of the 40-80 Hz octave is super important, beyond that it's diminishing returns as far as music goes... applying a ca. 40 Hz highpass even is somewhat common in music production. Staying well away from tonearm resonance (usually around 10 Hz depending on cartridge compliance and arm moving mass) may even be explicitly considered a good idea when it comes to live vinyl playback.

 

[56suited]

That might just be it, then. I can't pound music anyway. My wife's a bee itch. 85db is likely the max because all she wants in life is for me to suffer.

...and you get the full effect of the bass, even if it's in such a contained space?

@kemmler3D what if I went totally wild and did this set-up instead? Would I be alright in such a small space, knowing I wouldn't be cranking it past 85db?

• KEF Kube 8 Sub
• KEF LS50 Meta
• WiiM Amp
• Technics SL1500C (built in phono)

That's right about 3K and incl. a sub that will fit in my shelf.

Maybe that's crazy and I should stick with the Neumanns and the WiiM Ultra. The death spiral of over-analyzing.

 

[Karmacoma]

@kemmler3D what if I went totally wild and did this set-up instead? Would I be alright in such a small space, knowing I wouldn't be cranking it past 85db?

• KEF Kube 8 Sub
• KEF LS50 Meta
• WiiM Amp
• Technics SL1500C (built in phono)

That's right about 3K and incl. a sub that will fit in my shelf.

Maybe that's crazy and I should stick with the Neumanns and the WiiM Ultra. The death spiral of over-analyzing.

Whatever choice you'd make between those two wouldn't be a bad choice.

 

[kemmler3D]

@kemmler3D what if I went totally wild and did this set-up instead? Would I be alright in such a small space, knowing I wouldn't be cranking it past 85db?

• KEF Kube 8 Sub
• KEF LS50 Meta
• WiiM Amp
• Technics SL1500C (built in phono)

That's right about 3K and incl. a sub that will fit in my shelf.

Maybe that's crazy and I should stick with the Neumanns and the WiiM Ultra. The death spiral of over-analyzing.

That is definitely a respectable setup, but I think the Neumanns are better speakers (not by a ton) so I would really hesitate to suggest you stray from that path.

The nice thing about using room correction / EQ is you can tame pretty much any sub to work with your mains. I have 2x BIC F12 in my room (not considered all that great, a "bargain" sub) but with enough EQ they do the job fine.

If you don't need to go past 85dB then almost any decent sub will do the job.

 

[JeremyFife]

Post #19 'there are many ways to skin a cat' ... this is another good one, you wouldn't be disappointed.
Don't overthink it now or you'll never get anything

 

[56suited]

Post #19 'there are many ways to skin a cat' ... this is another good one, you wouldn't be disappointed.
Don't overthink it now or you'll never get anything

I picked my wife that way, and I ended up with a dragon. Good point.

 

[Multicore]

Oh, I'm getting the Neumanns. Just humming and hawwing over a path to a sub.

Digital daisy chain. Trust me. It's gonna be fine.

 

[Multicore]

Active KEF's ?

kef ls50 wireless ii
kef LSX ii

Because based on a few reports of failures and the following detailed report of service I have the impression that KEF not as good at engineering active boxes as it is at passive. KEF clearly does excellent performance and value for money in passives so if it were me I'd prefer to use separate amps.

KEF LSX Teardown and Repair

A friend of mine gave me these speakers for repair if possible, or at least to understand what was happening. According to him, the speakers would operate for a couple of minutes, then the sound would fade away progressively to 0. After a few tries and a firmware update the speakers no longer...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Multicore]

Get the Technics, live with the stylus it comes with and when savings have improved and you're settled with the rest of the gear you've invested in, THEN update the stylus. I come from once lofty vinyl heights you see (I'm a Decca Gold Microscanner cartridge owner amongst other treasures, so totally potty/bonkers and beyond any redemption )

The Technics comes with a detachable headshell, a must have if you find yourself drawn into the game of messing with carts and needles. It means you can have two or three on the simmer and determine from your own experience with your own subjective evaluation using your own vinyl with your speakers in your room what you like and dislike about whatever you choose to try. That's the way to play the game for maximum fun[1]. What other people say about this or that is maybe somewhat interesting but other people say so much you can support almost any proposition by choosing among their statements.

And a good TT will out last you. All needles wear out.

[1] Like the recording engineer choosing mics.

 

[MattHooper]

Not falling for lies. Going in with eyes wide open, purposely wanting to build a vinyl collection because I miss having one. That's illogical perhaps, but it makes me happy having a routine of going to a record store, crate diving, finding a gem, bringing it home, and physically interacting with the medium while I read the jacket notes.

There is absolutely NOTHING illogical about buying something that will give you pleasure.
Including a turntable. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

Buying something that is interesting and will give you pleasure why you are buying the Soundsystem in the first place!

It was predictable when your system featured a turntable that you’d get a number of ASR members downplay the relevance of the turntable. But if you want one, especially if your eyes are open in terms of not falling for bullshit, it makes sense go for it!

For what it’s worth, in my case, getting back into records several years ago revitalized this Hobby (audio gear and listening to music ) for me. I find it tremendously satisfying as an alternative to listening to my digital source (which I listen to a lot as well). It’s nice to mix things up - the record playing experience gives me something different than what I get from streaming through my DAC. And with a good record player, records can sound surprisingly compelling!

That doesn’t mean you’ll end up as enthusiastic as I am, or that will work out for you. But as a Thailand guide once reminded me while offering me some cooked jungle rat: “ never try never know.”

As to turntable recommendations versus what you’ve already listed, I’d have to have vastly more experienced than I do to make any recommendation.

And in way I can appreciate it that it’s tough to weed out the recommendations here too.
If you care about sound quality for your vinyl, then it is sensible to get a good quality record player. On one hand, you may get a knowledgable recommendation that “ you can get just a good sound quality from X player over y.” On the other hand, you may get some here just recommending you spend a lot less on the turntable simply because they themselves don’t think vinyl is worth much effort anyway. And that might not be helpful to you. Best of luck.

 

[Karmacoma]

Or maybe it's just that the speakers are the cornerstone of a sound system. My two cents.

 

[MarkS]

The OP's proposed turntable and phono pre-amp has a fully-balanced signal path, which raises the cost considerably and IMO has no audible benefits. Also, the signal becomes unbalanced at the proposed amp, and even those who promote balanced signals will say you should not unbalance them in this way.

 

[56suited]

The OP's proposed turntable and phono pre-amp has a fully-balanced signal path, which raises the cost considerably and IMO has no audible benefits.

This revelation I've arrived at, thanks to ASR, is what has me leaning toward a Technics SL-1500C. No fuss, direct drive, detachable headshell so I can futz around with cartridges later, and built in phono stage (if I go WiiM Amp to passives rather than WiiM Ultra to actives).

The challenge here is I've got a 300EUR price match discount to take advantage of on a great belt drive TT (Pro-Ject X1 B) that could go balanced from TT to phono (if I wanted it to in the future)...and so if I go that route, it pretty much determines the Ultra path, because I need a phono stage of some sort, even if the investment in a balanced input one comes later.

Also, the signal becomes unbalanced at the proposed amp, and even those who promote balanced signals will say you should not unbalance them in this way.

A balanced output from a TT with a MC cartridge to a phono stage drops the noise floor considerably. I want the cleanest and strongest sound from the TT, in whatever way that manifests...so is a balanced signal from a quality phono stage into the WiiM Ultra/Amp outweighed by an unbalanced signal from a higher quality cartridge directly to the Wiim Ultra/Amp?

I know that depends on the phono stage and the cartridge in question. I also know that the safest answer I am going to get is "you should let your ears determine that"...but if there is NOT a clear answer to the above, I might look at this from a "what do I get for my money right now?" perspective:

1. Pro-Ject X1 B > balanced mini XLR output > Pro-Ject S3 B = ~1.1K
2. Technics SL1500C = ~1.1K

The best way to determine this is working from speakers backward - in my restricted listening space "are Revel M16 speakers +200EUR savings equal to or better than Neumann KH 120 II speakers?" If they are, TT option 1 wins. On the other hand, if KH120s are far and away the best choice even considering the 200EUR premium, then that settles it, and I go with TT #2.