After 9 Months of Research - Rate My First System (Before I Buy It)!

[56suited]

It's looking like the Neumann KH 120 II. I'll report back when I'm done with the rest. Follow-up questions:

• Are isolation pads worthwhile for these speakers? If so, any recommendations?
  • If I isolate the speakers, do I also need to go beyond the isolation provided by turntable feet to isolate the turntable?
• Curious about RCA to XLR cables (there are no RCA inputs for the KH 120)...is this simply an RCA cable with a different end to it, or do I actually benefit somehow?
  • Follow-up...should I use the Wiim Ultra as a streamer, and go into a Topping A70 so I can use XLR/XLR to the speakers, or is that overkill? I suppose I could also just go with a WiiM Pro Plus in that sort of a set-up, but then I lose HDMI eARC

 

[dominikz]

Curious about RCA to XLR cables (there are no RCA inputs for the KH 120)...is this simply an RCA cable with a different end to it, or do I actually benefit somehow?

• Follow-up...should I use the Wiim Ultra as a streamer, and go into a Topping A70 so I can use XLR/XLR to the speakers, or is that overkill? I suppose I could also just go with a WiiM Pro Plus in that sort of a set-up, but then I lose HDMI eARC

As far as I understand, WiiM Ultra supports digital S/PDIF (Coax) output, and Neumann KH 120 II supports digital S/PDIF (Coax) input and output.
So I'd personally connect the loudspeakers with S/PDIF, thereby avoiding one unnecessary DA/AD conversion step and also simplifying gain-staging.
Please refer to Neumann KH 120 II Instruction Manual for details (including connections and switch settings).
EDIT: I suggest to also check if you will be able to set volume level in WiiM Ultra if using a digital connection. I expect it should be possible, but it is worth double-checking in advance!

Are isolation pads worthwhile for these speakers? If so, any recommendations?

In my experience, the main thing is to lift loudspeakers from the table (to decrease comb filtering due to table bounce) and to bring them to ear level. Otherwise I can't say I ever perceived any big difference with or without isolation pads. BTW, I own and love the older Neumann KH 120A. IMHO you chose really nice speakers!

If I isolate the speakers, do I also need to go beyond the isolation provided by turntable feet to isolate the turntable?

Probably not, unless perhaps if the surface it goes on is very wobbly/vibration-prone. My turntable is on the same surface as my bookshelves and I can't say I ever had any feedback due to this.

 

[Wolf11Man]

With all these accessory stuff you are a welcome victim to any HIFI shark. You are in the UK (?), so have a look into the Thomann online shop. They got all kinds of wires, stands, isolation things, but at a pro, not shark price. You can for example fill one of their stands with fine sand and add a digit to the price tag. If they do not have something, it usually doesn't have any value for perfect audio reproduction.
There are cinch to XLR cables, this is a common way of connecting gear. If the wire runs are 50 yards long and run through an electronically polluted studio, pure XLR is an advantage. Otherwise nothing to win with it.

 

[Karmacoma]

It's looking like the Neumann KH 120 II. I'll report back when I'm done with the rest. Follow-up questions:

• Are isolation pads worthwhile for these speakers? If so, any recommendations?
  • If I isolate the speakers, do I also need to go beyond the isolation provided by turntable feet to isolate the turntable?
• Curious about RCA to XLR cables (there are no RCA inputs for the KH 120)...is this simply an RCA cable with a different end to it, or do I actually benefit somehow?
  • Follow-up...should I use the Wiim Ultra as a streamer, and go into a Topping A70 so I can use XLR/XLR to the speakers, or is that overkill? I suppose I could also just go with a WiiM Pro Plus in that sort of a set-up, but then I lose HDMI eARC

The cheapest solution for a streamer with coaxial out is the Fiio SR11, dlna support is not yet implemented but it's in development (beta available if you ask fiio) for 99€ you get a volume knob and a remote. The big downside is there is only very little other connectivity, but boy it's so cheap. Wiim pro would be the wiser choice 179€ + 20€ for the remote (no volume knob though), and using the coaxial. You get a neat UI and EQ.

For the pads have also a look at pads like these, they're good if you need to orient the speakers perfectly at your ears' height and are pretty cheap, check the kh120 measurements to find the ones that fit them best.

t.akustik ISO-Pad 6

Pad de découplage Pour découplage acoustique d'enceinte de monitoring, Composé de 2 éléments, ce qui crée différentes combinaisons possibles : installation horizontale et 2 inclinaisons différentes (4° et 8°), Poids admissible: 14 kg, En mousse,...

www.thomann.de

 

[Eckerslad]

In my experience the room size is your biggest challenge here. A friend of mine had a 2x3 metre space, and struggled to get a balanced sound that wasn’t harsh/fatiguing.

The solution was LOTS of home-made acoustic absorber panels, similar to GIK, on pretty much every first reflection point, and a near field listening position. With eyes closed this resulted in a realistic soundstage that extended outside the room boundaries, and lots of detail.

So my advice would be to spend time or money on acoustic absorption before anything else, in a room this size.

A bit of a left-field suggestion might be to experiment with a “BBC Dip” - this was conceived as a solution to a small listening space I believe. You can use DSP to experiment with this.

 

[somebodyelse]

I'm with @dominikz on using the digital connection to the KH 120 II and lifting the speaker reference axis to ear level. Usually that's the tweeter axis, but sometimes with waveguides it's somewhere between the drivers so check the Neumann manual.

Isolation pads between speaker and furniture depend on the furniture. Some furniture is dead and it makes no difference. Others can turn into a soundboard that you can hear and feel, or start things buzzing at resonance. For those a simple foam pad will probably do the job. The IsoAcoustics stands reputedly work for this too, and you might prefer the look to a stack of books if you need to raise the speakers further than the foam will.

If I isolate the speakers, do I also need to go beyond the isolation provided by turntable feet to isolate the turntable?

Probably not, but it may depend on the turntable.

Curious about RCA to XLR cables (there are no RCA inputs for the KH 120)...is this simply an RCA cable with a different end to it, or do I actually benefit somehow?

This is often asked, so pointing to a previous answer. I'd use the digital connection though. No need for an A70.

 

[56suited]

I'm with @dominikz on using the digital connection to the KH 120 II and lifting the speaker reference axis to ear level. Usually that's the tweeter axis, but sometimes with waveguides it's somewhere between the drivers so check the Neumann manual.

Isolation pads between speaker and furniture depend on the furniture. Some furniture is dead and it makes no difference. Others can turn into a soundboard that you can hear and feel, or start things buzzing at resonance. For those a simple foam pad will probably do the job. The IsoAcoustics stands reputedly work for this too, and you might prefer the look to a stack of books if you need to raise the speakers further than the foam will.

Probably not, but it may depend on the turntable.

This is often asked, so pointing to a previous answer. I'd use the digital connection though. No need for an A70.

Miraculously, my listening place will be on-axis, even if I slouch, so the only reason for isolation pads would be to reduce resonance, and I probably won't need to. My cabinets are IKEA shelves (Kallax), with no wobble. I could always grab some later.

I have to do some more reading on the digital connection to the speakers. How do I get channel separation? Is it because the SPDIF goes to one speaker, and I use the SPDIF output from that to the other's input?

 

[Multicore]

The cheapest solution for a streamer with coaxial out is the Fiio SR11,

OP needs to connect also the TV and analog TT as inputs.

 

[56suited]

Miraculously, my listening place will be on-axis, even if I slouch, so the only reason for isolation pads would be to reduce resonance, and I probably won't need to. My cabinets are IKEA shelves (Kallax), with no wobble. I could always grab some later.

I have to do some more reading on the digital connection to the speakers. How do I get channel separation? Is it because the SPDIF goes to one speaker, and I use the SPDIF output from that to the other's input?

I think i found my answer here - you can control volume through the app or remote for the Pro so I assume the same goes for the Ultra.

 

[Multicore]

It's wall mounting the speakers an option? Avoids the isolation pads and frees up desk space.

Does the WiiM connect to KH 120 or 150 with digital?

As far as I understand, WiiM Ultra supports digital S/PDIF (Coax) output, and Neumann KH 120 II supports digital S/PDIF (Coax) input and output.
So I'd personally connect the loudspeakers with S/PDIF, thereby avoiding one unnecessary DA/AD conversion step and also simplifying gain-staging.
Please refer to Neumann KH 120 II Instruction Manual for details (including connections and switch settings).
EDIT: I suggest to also check if you will be able to set volume level in WiiM Ultra if using a digital connection. I expect it should be possible, but it is worth double-checking in advance!

It looks like it should work with two RCA (coax) SPDIF cables. One cable connects the first speaker to the WiiM and the other cable daisy chains the second speaker to the first.

To confirm: volume control like you mentioned (I recall WiiM can be set to work either way but confirm) and how to assign L and R channels to speakers.

In my experience, the main thing is to lift loudspeakers from the table (to decrease comb filtering due to table bounce) and to bring them to ear level. Otherwise I can't say I ever perceived any big difference with or without isolation pads. BTW, I own and love the older Neumann KH 120A. IMHO you chose really nice speakers!

Can we mount the speakers on the wall? (It's a really nice way to go.) Obviates iso stands and saves desk space. Iso for the TT might be needed especially if speakers are on the same sloppy desk as it but you can work on solving that problem after verifying that you really have the problem. There are DIY methods that work well (concrete blocks on foam).

 

[56suited]

As far as I understand, WiiM Ultra supports digital S/PDIF (Coax) output, and Neumann KH 120 II supports digital S/PDIF (Coax) input and output.
So I'd personally connect the loudspeakers with S/PDIF, thereby avoiding one unnecessary DA/AD conversion step and also simplifying gain-staging.
Please refer to Neumann KH 120 II Instruction Manual for details (including connections and switch settings).
EDIT: I suggest to also check if you will be able to set volume level in WiiM Ultra if using a digital connection. I expect it should be possible, but it is worth double-checking in advance!

In my experience, the main thing is to lift loudspeakers from the table (to decrease comb filtering due to table bounce) and to bring them to ear level. Otherwise I can't say I ever perceived any big difference with or without isolation pads. BTW, I own and love the older Neumann KH 120A. IMHO you chose really nice speakers!

Probably not, unless perhaps if the surface it goes on is very wobbly/vibration-prone. My turntable is on the same surface as my bookshelves and I can't say I ever had any feedback due to this.

@dominikz I found this thread on Reddit, and it sounds like DA/AD conversions aren't much to stress about from a sound quality perspective. Follow-up:

• I suppose I could just go with the analog inputs on the speakers and test it out versus SPDIF daisy-chaining and try to hear a difference, right?
• what does 'gain-staging' mean? Is that a fluctuation in gains from component to component as signals convert? I am such a dumb-ass rookie.

 

[somebodyelse]

I have to do some more reading on the digital connection to the speakers. How do I get channel separation? Is it because the SPDIF goes to one speaker, and I use the SPDIF output from that to the other's input?

That's right for the connection. Get the manual from https://www.neumann.com/en-gb/serviceundsupport/file-finder?productName=KH+120+II for details. There's a switch to set whether the speaker is left or right. If you add a KH 750 later you can add it to the spdif daisy chain.

 

[56suited]

That's right for the connection. Get the manual from https://www.neumann.com/en-gb/serviceundsupport/file-finder?productName=KH+120+II for details. There's a switch to set whether the speaker is left or right. If you add a KH 750 later you can add it to the spdif daisy chain.

There will likely never be a sub in this small space. I will have to be satisfied with the frequency range I get from the speakers. I'm currently using a ****** Bose SoundLink speaker like this on my desk right now, controlled via Bluetooth from my tablet...so anything I buy will sound excellent.

The image of daisy-chaining behind the TV, and then lacing from the daisy-chained speaker down to the floor where a sub would go has me twitching. Soooo much cables.

 

[Wolf11Man]

I'm currently using a ****** Bose SoundLink speaker like this on my desk right now, controlled via Bluetooth from my tablet...so anything I buy will sound excellent.

Now you got me so far I feel sorry for you. They should be abolished by the Geneva convention.

 

[Multicore]

@dominikz I found this thread on Reddit,

WAT?!

You're checking up on us at with Reddit? The cheek!

It's true that you won't hear the difference using analog or digital connection but from a systems engineering point of view it's revolting to DA -> cable -> AD.

I had a long conversation about that on The Gear Page w.r.t. stomp boxes. Design a new 1/4" TS phone connector with an optical threaded out to the tip and then the digital boxes on your pedal board can negotiate to talk to each other in ones and zeros and ignore the analog.

 

[Multicore]

The image of daisy-chaining behind the TV, and then lacing from the daisy-chained speaker down to the floor where a sub would go has me twitching. Soooo much cables.

I don't see why it should worry you. You can route the cables however you like and hide them away. It makes little difference if you're chaining them or hub-and-spokeing.

 

[somebodyelse]

A cautionary note on the spdif interface - some people have trouble with it not waking from sleep, even after Neumann's attempted firmware fix. There's some coverage here including a possible workaround. I don't think it happens with the analog connection.

The image of daisy-chaining behind the TV, and then lacing from the daisy-chained speaker down to the floor where a sub would go has me twitching. Soooo much cables.

Same number as if you went direct from the Ultra to each of them.

 

[56suited]

WAT?!

You're checking up on us at with Reddit? The cheek!

It's true that you won't hear the difference using analog or digital connection but from a systems engineering point of view it's revolting to DA -> cable -> AD.

I had a long conversation about that on The Gear Page w.r.t. stomp boxes. Design a new 1/4" TS phone connector with an optical threaded out to the tip and then the digital boxes on your pedal board can negotiate to talk to each other in ones and zeros and ignore the analog.

ASR was my first-ever audio forum, and my one true love (when I can understand what's being talked about...I might name my next dog Klippel)...but I am a forever skeptic, kicking the tires on everything not to make it fall apart, but to make sure whatever car I am in will stay on the road.

 

[AdamG]

This is the Value of ASR. 6 pages of detailed and well thought out advice, analysis and guidance on a new system setup all in under two calendar days.

OP, best luck with your new Audio System. Sounds exciting!

 

[56suited]

This is the Value of ASR. 6 pages of detailed and well thought out advice, analysis and guidance on a new system setup all in under two calendar days.

OP, best luck with your new Audio System. Sounds exciting!

I am feeling a sizzle and buzz of energy and being anxious all at the same time - while cliché, it's true - I haven't felt this alive for decades.