After 9 Months of Research - Rate My First System (Before I Buy It)!

[Pancreas]

Why cheap out on the speaker yet buy a $800 turntable

 

[Multicore]

- A pair of kh 150 - 2600€ right now no sub needed, end-game stuff
- Fiio SR11 to feed them - 99€
2700€ total
Sorry but when i see 3000€ budget small space that's the first thing that comes to my mind. Buy the rest 2nd hand. When it's about a system's quality, speakers come first, you build your system from the speakers not from your turntable, paying 1,5x more for the vinyl gear than for the speakers is a rookie mistake, yes i know you'll evolve from there, change your in-5 at some point that's what you tell yourself but that's be a waste of money and time, and again speakers come first, make the vinyl part evolve instead.
Been there.

100%

With KH 150 DSP @56suited won't need a WiiM for room EQ so the SR11 is interesting but --- BUT --- how to connect the TV?

And while the AT-LP120XUSB has USB and the SR11 has USB, I suspect they both act as peripherals. One would need to act as host to the other, no?

 

[AnalogSteph]

And I took a whole star off for the nested indentation of your bullet list. You made me get up and go get my lap top to just read it.

LOL, but normally I'd think even a typical smartypants phone ought to be wide enough when rotating it to landscape and zooming out a bit...

Anyway, I agree that speakers + room measurement / EQ should be a top priority. I'd consider primarily playing vinyl ripped in silence, as it would relax anything to do with vibration isolation quite a bit. There are many more decks with quiet, stable drives and so-so isolation than ones sporting a subchassis. (Back in the day that would have been the difference between a Dual 600 and 700 series model, with the latter being a fair bit more expensive.) I mean, you can always get creative and put the player on a concrete slab on halved tennis balls or something, but...

 

[DSJR]

That TT is overpriced and yuck. Either get a new AT-LP120XUSB or if you want to spend more money on a TT, a used SL-1200. We've had this punch up about three times here recently and the low-mass belt-drive brigade took a pasting every time 8^}} The AT-LP120XUSB is truly awsome and you will enjoy it very much for sure so I suggest you save money with that and put it into speakers.

Do you own the AT120XUSB? Having seen and read this, I wouldn't -

https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_reviews.php?make=Audio+Technica&model=AT-LP120-USB

I thought it was too good to be true for three hundred quid as well...

 

[Multicore]

Anyway, I agree that speakers + room measurement / EQ should be a top priority. I'd consider primarily playing vinyl ripped in silence, as it would relax anything to do with vibration isolation quite a bit. There are many more decks with quiet, stable drives and so-so isolation than ones sporting a subchassis. (Back in the day that would have been the difference between a Dual 600 and 700 series model, with the latter being a fair bit more expensive.) I mean, you can always get creative and put the player on a concrete slab on halved tennis balls or something, but...

Good idea! Connect the TT to the computer instead of to the stereo. The deck I recommended plugs right into the computer with a cable included in the box. There are others that will too.

 

[Multicore]

Do you own the AT120XUSB?

Good question. No.

I have a Dual CS-3000 because /me loves semi-auto.

Having seen and read this, I wouldn't -

https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_reviews.php?make=Audio+Technica&model=AT-LP120-USB

I still would. Two say it has motor noise, one explicitly says it does not and the rest are satisfied. I might return it.

If Amir tested TTs I'd buy one for him. I could try one myself but am not set up for testing and am not motivated to get so.

 

[Pancreas]

The project x1b s is $999

Those $1000 should go towards audiophiles speakers which those Kali are not

Speakers matter more than anything else

 

[dominikz]

Be kind to the rookie (please). I've been lurking and reading everything I can, putting off my purchases as long as I can bear...and the moment is finally here. First, some details:

Room Details

• ~5.5-6m sq (small office)
• just a couple acoustic treatments from GIK (not currently installed as they are on their way)
• listening distance is ~1-1.25m
• Disregard the stupid speaker positioning in the picture. I used freeware room design software that expired so I can't change it. The speakers will be next to the TV, and I will be sitting on-axis with a very slight toe-in for the speakers.

View attachment 391757

Budget & Other Details

• ~€2,500 - €3,000
• Vinyl, and streaming from Spotify Connect. I want the tactile vinyl experience. Non-negotiable.
• Saving space by going with active studio monitors, and limiting number of components without sacrificing upgrade paths. Also, monitors with dip switches seem more forgiving of placement near walls.
• Upgrade paths cannot include larger spaces. My office is my cave, and my wife asserts dominance over design decisions for the rest of the house. My office has a lock for my own safety.

The System

• Pro-Ject X1 B Turntable (note: getting it price matched to €850 from richersounds.ie)
  • mini-XLR
    • Pro-Ject Phono Box S3 B
      • RCA
        • WiiM Ultra (with HDMI eARC from Samsung Smart TV)
          • RCA
            • Kali IN-5s (not included in the screengrab; I am getting them from Thomann for ~€344/ea)

View attachment 391758
Final Thoughts

• I considered Neuman KH120 II as an option pretty hard, but that is way too evolved a monitor for my rookie capabilities. I also do not have a personal computer to take full advantage. I will covet them from a distance.
• I considered Adam A7V pretty hard as well due to their great warranty and various reviews (here as well as elsewhere).
• I landed on the Kali IN-5 (instead of the IN-8) because of space limitations. Worried I will regret this decision, as I know a sub is out of the question for such a small space, not to mention tricky placement (ex: under the desk is pretty much the only place).
• I contemplated a WiiM Pro Plus and a Topping A70 Pro as an alternative to the WiiM Ultra, and decided against it because of no HDMI eARC.
• Room correction through the WiiM app will have to be good enough, as well as the dip switches on the Kalis. I cannot justify the spend on miniDSP products (but appreciate and respect their quality). Maybe a consideration for the future.

So...tell me what you think. I'm excited to actually buy something, just in time for my birthday. Thank you for embracing rookies in this wild and lovely world of HiFi.

I'd second the advice from most here to select (much) cheaper cables and a cheaper turntable.
WiiM Ultra already has a built-in phono input so I'd drop the separate phono box completely. WiiM products also implement both Room EQ, bass management and even a manual 10-band PEQ - I don't believe you would necessarily get any better results with miniDSP.

Loudspeaker placement near the wall behind them is not an issue (actually it is usually even preferable in such small rooms - see this article by Genelec).

Regarding speakers - for such a small room and short listening distance, I believe ~5" woofers should be perfectly fine - assuming you don't plan to blast it to very high listening levels. Even 4" woofers might work, depending on how loud you listen and whether or not you have a sub.

Here's my view on woofer size, which I guess some will see as controversial: going up for a 7" or 8" woofer on the loudspeakers won't provide as much additional bass extension as you may think, and IMHO doesn't ever truly replace a subwoofer. In this case a bigger speaker mainly means it can play louder without noticeable distortion.
So you'd need to know how loud you want to listen (and how far away you want to sit) to make an informed decision if you need a bigger speaker or not. E.g. Neumann and Genelec both have official guides on speaker size selection which are based on listening distance and required SPL.

To illustrate, here's an example of Neumann KH 120 II vs KH 150 (source) - you can see that with the larger woofer you'd get only 5-6Hz lower extension:

A subwoofer on the other hand should gives you an extra octave below, and it can also be used to offload the bass from the loudspeakers, smooth out the upper bass response and in some cases even to combat SBIR effects (I wrote about this a little before). Here's how adding a tiny sub helped me greatly reduce audible bass-suckout in my desktop system.
With multiple subwoofers (optimized with measurement and DSP) you can even achieve a consistent bass response across a wider listening area - though this is not necessary if you have only one listening position.

All of the above can go a long way towards taming the undesirable room effects on the bass, which has a significant influence on sound quality.

However, properly integrating a subwoofer for the first time is not trivial (there's a learning curve to it), and could lead to less-than-desirable results if done poorly. But it is important to understand that it is possible to do it well, and your room size would not necessarily be an issue.

If you want to have room correction and a well integrated subwoofer, how much you need to spend will also depend on how automated you want this process to be.
You could get away with a cheaper system, but then you need to learn more about in-room response measurement, manual room EQ and subwoofer integration as you will be doing all of that manually.
For a higher price you could get slightly more automation and ease of use (e.g. have a look at Genelec GLM and Neumann MA 1 solutions), but that would probably break the budget, and especially if you also need an additional streaming box and a turntable.

All that being said, for simplicity (and to avoid being overloaded with new information), it may indeed make sense to start without a sub, learn to measure and do room correction, and add a sub later.

Hope you'll find some of the information interesting and useful. Good luck and have fun!

 

[Multicore]

Given the room dimensions (L, W, H please @56suited ) and assuming KH 150 and max in-room SPL, say 75 or 80 dB then we can add a low shelf to get a bit more LF and predict the in room response with REW's simulator.

 

[Multicore]

Are there recommendations for cables, or specific materials or details I should look for?

Cheap non brand stuff works as well as any. whatever you find well do.

 

[Mnyb]

WiiM now comes with both EQ room correction. I own the pro plus .
The ultra comes with its own sub output.

I would trust the built in phono input to save money. The EQ in the WiiM should make sub integration easier ( if needed ) but also help with desk wall placement .

With such a small room your application is basically “ near field monitoring “ just like some kind of producer , so a pro mini monitor like Neumann Kali or Genelec may be very suitable.
And the EQ presets in the WiiM can help you adapt the tonality of the speakers if the speakers are not a perfect match to your preferences or the recording itself.

The omitting of tone controls are a basic flaw in high end audio ! Sometimes you just crank some old recording that sound eeew and no cable in the world fixes that .

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

I do not full understand the TT . I hope the OP does not fall for the lies about Vinyl superiority to digital.
This said, I would suggest the following system:
Wiim Streamer around $ 90
RME ADI-2
Neuman KH-150...
UMik-1
Download REW

Come back here, ask questions. After proper EQ, perhaps some light room treatment... a SOTA audio system. Yes.

Peace.

 

[Pancreas]

Just go full balls deep and buy Genelec 8331a

Do it

 

[GXAlan]

Rega is a hard no. I don't want to be restricted to a Rega ecosystem, and (probably more the honest reason for my response) I am so tired of salespeople in Ireland jamming Regas down my throat just to solve an inventory problem.

Got it.

I personally don’t own a Rega but I did like them. The main reason I suggested it was the Nd3 cartridge since it is rated at 6 mV instead of the usual 5 mV which means that it should be easier for a phono amp since there more signal to begin with.

The cartridge alone is pretty pricey and you seem to get a nice deal when it’s all in one.

For Pro-Ject, I have owned the Debut Carbon DC. The current line up is a bit confusing but I would go for the Automat A1 or the Carbon Evo.

If you do have the budget for Technics, get that. I like the SL-1500C, but it pushes your budget up.

Ignore what dealers try to say about compatibility and synergy with brands. There are high and low compliance tonearms but you can easily mix and match cartridges and tonearms for the most part. Think about how ubiquitous the Ortofon 2M Red is across different brands. Think about the popularity of the old Shure carts and Denon carts across all sorts of brands.

 

[Koeitje]

If you care about audio performance I'd skip the turntable and spend that money on better speakers and/or subwoofer(s). You are still free to buy records, but playing them is quite pointless. Just stream the album. If you spend that €900 extra on loudspeakers your setup will go from nice entry level to pretty f-ing good.

Also, just get some cheaper cables. I just use Stagg cables. I have T5V's with a single ADAM T10S subwoofer as a desktop setup. The subwoofer is a huge boon.

 

[ehabheikal]

You can also ponder the kh80 and buy a subwoofer now or further along the line.

 

[quattro98]

Neumann offers EQ/correction with the MA1. Sometimes you can get that for free if there's a promo offer. I'd have no problems adding a KH750 in a small room in the future with room EQ via either WiiM or MA1.

 

[Joe Smith]

Do you own the AT120XUSB? Having seen and read this, I wouldn't -

https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_reviews.php?make=Audio+Technica&model=AT-LP120-USB

I thought it was too good to be true for three hundred quid as well...

I have and use vintage tables, and I must say, the AT 120 is quite a good table for the money. Not "junk" in any respect. Put a microline AT cartridge on it and call it all good for about $400. A good phono stage to match with it would be the 2nd generation Mani from Schiit. That would add $150.

Is the AT 120 built as well as a Technics? No. But it plays just fine and is a very good value.

 

[Joe Smith]

As to all the comments slamming vinyl - I think the OP wants the pleasure of using the medium realizing that digital is a better value and probably better sound. But I'm one of those people that likes using a lot of formats and SQ isn't the sole determinant. I think the question about storage raised above is a valid point, I guess we're assuming you will have some alternate space to store vinyl? It takes up room, yes indeed.

 

[Waxx]

If you spend that much on a trunrtable, get a technics SL1500 or other model. No Project is worth that money if you can get a technics for that price. They are far better. And don't spend so much on cables, get decent generic ones and you have more money left for something elsse. You may want a subwoofer for instance....