After 9 Months of Research - Rate My First System (Before I Buy It)!

[56suited]

Hi, I am using the ISO 130 with my original KH 120, and this is the maximum possible as there is a cutout in the back of the speaker. If the newer KH 120 II is the same, the ISO 130 is the largest you can use.

See photos attached.

Btw these stand are a little wobbly when hitting against the speaker (all interconnections are relatively soft rubber for proper acoustic decoupling), however, the speaker sits solid on top of them, does not slip, feels very safe.

@markstein - is it imperative that I lift the speakers for power cord clearance, or could I get away with pads or pucks without worrying about bending/kinking the power cord? I know that the KH120s have a weird placement for electrical leads.

 

[markstein]

The original KH 120 which I own can directly be placed on a surface regarding the cables. I can not speak for the KH 120 II.

 

[Multicore]

@markstein - is it imperative that I lift the speakers for power cord clearance, or could I get away with pads or pucks without worrying about bending/kinking the power cord? I know that the KH120s have a weird placement for electrical leads.

Can you share a photo of the bend radius that concerns you?

 

[56suited]

UPDATE:

• The WiiM Ultra and the Neumann KH 120 II have arrived and sound sublime. A subwoofer is relegated to a luxury item, and not critical, as the KH 120 IIs get low and loud enough for my current needs. The only place they miss out on sub 40Hz frequencies is when listening to jungle/drum 'n' bass music, but otherwise, the bass is deep and strong. I've hit ~100dB with no apparent strain or harshness in sound, and the built-in protection for the speakers is a blessing (ex: when the front light goes from white to red).
• I've left the sonic filters at the back of the KH 120s untouched/flat, and relied 100% on WiiM's room correction. I have absolutely no qualms or issues with distortion or resonances, and even 20cm away from the wall, there's no issue with sound quality. I am still learning the finesse touches of the WiiM's ridiculous customization options and I am happy with my original assertion that a miniDSP solution, or using SonarWorks or Neumann's available software would be overkill. I also feel like I can take a short-term pass on room treatments. Other than a rug (which I intended to buy anyway) treatment, like a subwoofer, is a "save for later" expense.
• I've used IsoAcoustic Mini Pucks under the speakers, and I believe this helps with surface resonances without lifting the speakers past ideal on-axis alignment with my ears seated in listening position.
• On the topic of turntables...The Technics SL1500C option fell apart (who lists an item in stock when it isn't? Irish retailers). However, I have been in touch with a reputable dealer who has an unused display SL1210GR in immaculate condition and is willing to sell it for the same price I was intending to pay for the 1500C - and they are including a Nagaoka MP-200 cartridge at 100EUR off retail price. That is a huge upgrade for turntable AND cartridge for the same money I was going to spend on the 1500C with an Ortofon Blue cartridge. For ~1.3K EUR I am getting what I feel is an end-game turntable with an end-game cartridge. Going to a moving coil cartridge and separate phono stage is waaaaaay down the priority list. I will buy more records instead.

The turntable isn't here yet, but I am already so happy with everything. Thank you ASR Community for dealing with my rookie persistence. It, and your advice, has paid off. Pictures and video to come.

 

[kemmler3D]

UPDATE:

• The WiiM Ultra and the Neumann KH 120 II have arrived and sound sublime. A subwoofer is relegated to a luxury item, and not critical, as the KH 120 IIs get low and loud enough for my current needs. The only place they miss out on sub 40Hz frequencies is when listening to jungle/drum 'n' bass music, but otherwise, the bass is deep and strong. I've hit ~100dB with no apparent strain or harshness in sound, and the built-in protection for the speakers is a blessing (ex: when the front light goes from white to red).
• I've left the sonic filters at the back of the KH 120s untouched/flat, and relied 100% on WiiM's room correction. I have absolutely no qualms or issues with distortion or resonances, and even 20cm away from the wall, there's no issue with sound quality. I am still learning the finesse touches of the WiiM's ridiculous customization options and I am happy with my original assertion that a miniDSP solution, or using SonarWorks or Neumann's available software would be overkill. I also feel like I can take a short-term pass on room treatments. Other than a rug (which I intended to buy anyway) treatment, like a subwoofer, is a "save for later" expense.
• I've used IsoAcoustic Mini Pucks under the speakers, and I believe this helps with surface resonances without lifting the speakers past ideal on-axis alignment with my ears seated in listening position.
• On the topic of turntables...The Technics SL1500C option fell apart (who lists an item in stock when it isn't? Irish retailers). However, I have been in touch with a reputable dealer who has an unused display SL1210GR in immaculate condition and is willing to sell it for the same price I was intending to pay for the 1500C - and they are including a Nagaoka MP-200 cartridge at 100EUR off retail price. That is a huge upgrade for turntable AND cartridge for the same money I was going to spend on the 1500C with an Ortofon Blue cartridge. For ~1.3K EUR I am getting what I feel is an end-game turntable with an end-game cartridge. Going to a moving coil cartridge and separate phono stage is waaaaaay down the priority list. I will buy more records instead.

The turntable isn't here yet, but I am already so happy with everything. Thank you ASR Community for dealing with my rookie persistence. It, and your advice, has paid off. Pictures and video to come.

Awesome! Glad it all worked out. Time to kick back and enjoy. I think your approach of saving some upgrades for later and not worrying too much is a good one.

 

[Multicore]

UPDATE:

• The WiiM Ultra and the Neumann KH 120 II have arrived and sound sublime. A subwoofer is relegated to a luxury item, and not critical, as the KH 120 IIs get low and loud enough for my current needs. The only place they miss out on sub 40Hz frequencies is when listening to jungle/drum 'n' bass music, but otherwise, the bass is deep and strong. I've hit ~100dB with no apparent strain or harshness in sound, and the built-in protection for the speakers is a blessing (ex: when the front light goes from white to red).
• I've left the sonic filters at the back of the KH 120s untouched/flat, and relied 100% on WiiM's room correction. I have absolutely no qualms or issues with distortion or resonances, and even 20cm away from the wall, there's no issue with sound quality. I am still learning the finesse touches of the WiiM's ridiculous customization options and I am happy with my original assertion that a miniDSP solution, or using SonarWorks or Neumann's available software would be overkill. I also feel like I can take a short-term pass on room treatments. Other than a rug (which I intended to buy anyway) treatment, like a subwoofer, is a "save for later" expense.
• I've used IsoAcoustic Mini Pucks under the speakers, and I believe this helps with surface resonances without lifting the speakers past ideal on-axis alignment with my ears seated in listening position.
• On the topic of turntables...The Technics SL1500C option fell apart (who lists an item in stock when it isn't? Irish retailers). However, I have been in touch with a reputable dealer who has an unused display SL1210GR in immaculate condition and is willing to sell it for the same price I was intending to pay for the 1500C - and they are including a Nagaoka MP-200 cartridge at 100EUR off retail price. That is a huge upgrade for turntable AND cartridge for the same money I was going to spend on the 1500C with an Ortofon Blue cartridge. For ~1.3K EUR I am getting what I feel is an end-game turntable with an end-game cartridge. Going to a moving coil cartridge and separate phono stage is waaaaaay down the priority list. I will buy more records instead.

The turntable isn't here yet, but I am already so happy with everything. Thank you ASR Community for dealing with my rookie persistence. It, and your advice, has paid off. Pictures and video to come.

Ah tremenjus, Harry as a Boy, simply tremenjus.

I'm glad to read that the WiiM room EQ satisfies.

I'm not surprised you don't feel you miss much without 20 to 40. A lot of us feel the same.

 

[A Surfer]

Yes, but when you do eventually add a sub, once decently integrated you will understand why. Absolutely not a must have, but there is zero chance that it won't be a positive addition.

Congratulations on your system.

 

[kemmler3D]

Yes, but when you do eventually add a sub, once decently integrated you will understand why. Absolutely not a must have, but there is zero chance that it won't be a positive addition.

Congratulations on your system.

I tend to agree... esp. if you listen to a lot of Jungle or D&B... but let's say it's a nice thing to look forward to.

 

[GXAlan]

Nagaoka MP-200 cartridge at 100EUR off retail price.

Post in thread 'Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library'
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...tridge-measurement-library.46108/post-1945048

Nice choice.

 

[56suited]

Post in thread 'Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library'
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...tridge-measurement-library.46108/post-1945048

Nice choice.

I almost went with a Ortofon Quintet Blue, or a Hana SL, but I read (just in time) that typically MC cartridges need more than just a basic phono stage to get value/great sound quality.

Then I contemplated a Ortofon Black MM, or even a Bronze...but the drop in price I was offered, and subsequent quick review online swayed me to the Nagaoka, even though I thought I had my heart set on an MC or at least a Shibata.

Pleased I made a good choice. Thank you!

 

[MattHooper]

I almost went with a Ortofon Quintet Blue, or a Hana SL, but I read (just in time) that typically MC cartridges need more than just a basic phono stage to get value/great sound quality.

Then I contemplated a Ortofon Black MM, or even a Bronze...but the drop in price I was offered, and subsequent quick review online swayed me to the Nagaoka, even though I thought I had my heart set on an MC or at least a Shibata.

Pleased I made a good choice. Thank you!

I’m happy your system worked out so well for you. And I’m quite interested to hear your thoughts on your turntable once you get it up and running.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Well done! A small killer system. You researched right and bought right. Lots of fun listening ahead. You will find that in a month or two you will have forgotten how good it sounds. We get so used to great sound very quickly. Our brains are wired to make us enjoy! Thanks for the post buying review.

 

[56suited]

Final Update

Firstly, once again, a big shout-out to the ASR community for lively and engaging conversation and helpful advice.

The Neumann KH120 II are still spectacular. I will not need a sub any time soon (when I hit 90dB, they literally circulate cool air in my small office and give me all the bass I need for now). I have not fiddled with any of the settings on the back of the speakers. I don't think I need to, but I do wonder if I should experiment anyway.

The WiiM Ultra does everything I want it to. It is spectacular. I don't foresee a needed upgrade path except if I wanted to go wild, buy a phono stage, pick up a Topping A70 Pro, and revert it to streamer-only duty - which I probably won't do because that would be buying stuff just for the sake of buying it. I can't foresee a necessary and valuable upgrade path, to be honest. I find myself constantly running room correction with various settings. I find that opening up the range to 30Hz - 20kHz gives me a more pleasant correction, even though the KH120s supposedly go 40Hz-19kHz. I worry that f***ing around with room correction will be where I kill most of my time, fiddling between B&K, Harman, and Flat curves, LS/HS settings at various frequencies, etc...and that I'll never actually listen to music.

The open-box Technics SL1210GR with Nagaoka MP-200 is sublime. It was used as a display only, and was never played, so it is literally brand new. For the price I paid (1.3K EUR with the cartridge included) I got the steal of the year, in my opinion. Limited vinyl collection for now, but Pink Floyd's Dark Side of The Moon, and Radiohead's entire discography play really nice. Subtle warmth with midrange precision, and while I can't quantify it, I feel like vinyl versions give me a wider sound-stage and instrumental separation than digital. Is that even possible, or am I being delusional?

Push-button on/off, electronic speed control...why I was even contemplating a belt-drive is beyond me. While I don't need the DJ features of the turntable, I am already messing with pitch to hear different versions of favorite songs. I love the detachable headshell option, because I can buy premounted cartridges if I ever chose to and not have to worry about the precision needed to mount cartridges on my own. I have set the stylus pressure at 1.5g which is the low end of the range suggested - I might experiment with 2.0g sometime in the future. No vibrations even with the Neumann right next to it, pounding hard. I attribute that more to the IsoAcoustic Mini Pucks I have for the speakers and the rock solid construction of the speakers themselves...although I am pleased I got slightly higher than an entry-level turntable with quality feet and heavy construction.

The only gripe I have, which is so wildly inconsequential that I am almost loathe to bring it up is that when my mini-refrigerator cycles, the sound drops out for the slightest bit of time. It's an old house, so it's likely that the fridge is on the same circuit as the speakers, but changing outlets hasn't helped at all. Curious if I need a UPS or some other (budget-friendly) solution. Recommendations welcome!

Thanks again, everybody!

 

[Waxx]

Final Update

Firstly, once again, a big shout-out to the ASR community for lively and engaging conversation and helpful advice.

The Neumann KH120 II are still spectacular. I will not need a sub any time soon (when I hit 90dB, they literally circulate cool air in my small office and give me all the bass I need for now). I have not fiddled with any of the settings on the back of the speakers. I don't think I need to, but I do wonder if I should experiment anyway.

The WiiM Ultra does everything I want it to. It is spectacular. I don't foresee a needed upgrade path except if I wanted to go wild, buy a phono stage, pick up a Topping A70 Pro, and revert it to streamer-only duty - which I probably won't do because that would be buying stuff just for the sake of buying it. I can't foresee a necessary and valuable upgrade path, to be honest. I find myself constantly running room correction with various settings. I find that opening up the range to 30Hz - 20kHz gives me a more pleasant correction, even though the KH120s supposedly go 40Hz-19kHz. I worry that f***ing around with room correction will be where I kill most of my time, fiddling between B&K, Harman, and Flat curves, LS/HS settings at various frequencies, etc...and that I'll never actually listen to music.

The open-box Technics SL1210GR with Nagaoka MP-200 is sublime. It was used as a display only, and was never played, so it is literally brand new. For the price I paid (1.3K EUR with the cartridge included) I got the steal of the year, in my opinion. Limited vinyl collection for now, but Pink Floyd's Dark Side of The Moon, and Radiohead's entire discography play really nice. Subtle warmth with midrange precision, and while I can't quantify it, I feel like vinyl versions give me a wider sound-stage and instrumental separation than digital. Is that even possible, or am I being delusional?

Push-button on/off, electronic speed control...why I was even contemplating a belt-drive is beyond me. While I don't need the DJ features of the turntable, I am already messing with pitch to hear different versions of favorite songs. I love the detachable headshell option, because I can buy premounted cartridges if I ever chose to and not have to worry about the precision needed to mount cartridges on my own. I have set the stylus pressure at 1.5g which is the low end of the range suggested - I might experiment with 2.0g sometime in the future. No vibrations even with the Neumann right next to it, pounding hard. I attribute that more to the IsoAcoustic Mini Pucks I have for the speakers and the rock solid construction of the speakers themselves...although I am pleased I got slightly higher than an entry-level turntable with quality feet and heavy construction.

The only gripe I have, which is so wildly inconsequential that I am almost loathe to bring it up is that when my mini-refrigerator cycles, the sound drops out for the slightest bit of time. It's an old house, so it's likely that the fridge is on the same circuit as the speakers, but changing outlets hasn't helped at all. Curious if I need a UPS or some other (budget-friendly) solution. Recommendations welcome!

Thanks again, everybody!

I used an true online UPS for that long ago when i had a similar situation. You need to have the full online (where the battery is always in between the ac power outlet in the wall and the device, so the battery act as current spring for those fluctuations. This does not have to have a long battery life when no power, but must be able to deliver enough power to power the system full at 150% or more of the specified needs (to have buffer).

But these days you also got home battery packs that can do the same. They are mostly advertised for offgrid life/cambing/boating, but can be used for anything, including hifi systems. If your electricity network is that dodgy that a fridge can have an impact, i would use one of those today.

 

[MattHooper]

Awesome. How excellent that you’re so happy that with your overall system!

The open-box Technics SL1210GR with Nagaoka MP-200 is sublime. It was used as a display only, and was never played, so it is literally brand new. For the price I paid (1.3K EUR with the cartridge included) I got the steal of the year, in my opinion. Limited vinyl collection for now, but Pink Floyd's Dark Side of The Moon, and Radiohead's entire discography play really nice. Subtle warmth with midrange precision, and while I can't quantify it, I feel like vinyl versions give me a wider sound-stage and instrumental separation than digital. Is that even possible, or am I being delusional?

And even your turntable and vinyl is working out for you! That’s great. I play a lot of records. If you’re into it, it can really add another bit of “ spice” to enjoying both music and your system. Another fun thing to play with, another way of experiencing music.

I have plenty of records that sound absolutely amazing on my system, so I often don’t feel I’m slumming it when I turn from listening to my digital source to playing records.

 

[56suited]

I used an true online UPS for that long ago when i had a similar situation. You need to have the full online (where the battery is always in between the ac power outlet in the wall and the device, so the battery act as current spring for those fluctuations. This does not have to have a long battery life when no power, but must be able to deliver enough power to power the system full at 150% or more of the specified needs (to have buffer).

But these days you also got home battery packs that can do the same. They are mostly advertised for offgrid life/cambing/boating, but can be used for anything, including hifi systems. If your electricity network is that dodgy that a fridge can have an impact, i would use one of those today.

Thank you for the response. I suppose I would plug my speakers and monitor (those are the affected items, as I don't believe the turntable or WiiM Ultra is having problems) into it - not the refrigerator, right?

Also, do you have any budget and size-friendly recommendations? No stress if not. Currently prowling the internet for options.

 

[somebodyelse]

The only gripe I have, which is so wildly inconsequential that I am almost loathe to bring it up is that when my mini-refrigerator cycles, the sound drops out for the slightest bit of time. It's an old house, so it's likely that the fridge is on the same circuit as the speakers, but changing outlets hasn't helped at all. Curious if I need a UPS or some other (budget-friendly) solution. Recommendations welcome!

Failed or missing snubber on the fridge thermostat? I had one last century that would cause a PC to reboot.

 

[56suited]

Failed or missing snubber on the fridge thermostat? I had one last century that would cause a PC to reboot.

I don't know. I don't think it is a refrigerator problem; it's an "old house spliced circuitry" problem, and I am too loathe to get an electrician in to run a new circuit, so I will likely go hunting for a small, affordable UPS solution to plug my monitor and speakers into.

 

[Waxx]

Thank you for the response. I suppose I would plug my speakers and monitor (those are the affected items, as I don't believe the turntable or WiiM Ultra is having problems) into it - not the refrigerator, right?

Also, do you have any budget and size-friendly recommendations? No stress if not. Currently prowling the internet for options.

it's like a decade ago that i did that, i moved to a house that is a lot better in power so i don't need that anymore. I don't remember the brand and type, but i paid about 300€ for it. It was a 900W UPS with a battery that could hold on for about 10minutes after the power went down. And that was enough.

 

[Multicore]

I worry that f***ing around with room correction will be where I kill most of my time, fiddling between B&K, Harman, and Flat curves, LS/HS settings at various frequencies, etc...and that I'll never actually listen to music.

I wouldn't worry too much. You should get bored with the novelty of that as time passes. If you don't then you'll likely be beyond our help. Otoh there's no reason not to adjust tone controls liberally to taste for whatever reason so it makes sense to experiment to learn what adjustments lead to what perceptual effects.

I am thrilled to read your "final" report. This seems like an ASR success story. It's also your success for sticking with it and ploughing through the confusion.

Wrt DSotM.