• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

After 9 Months of Research - Rate My First System (Before I Buy It)!

Grew up on vinyl. Less than zero interest in it. I don't get nostalgic about it even though I grew up looking at and enjoying the album covers and sleeves.

My brother maintains a very good vinyl rig, he calibrates and maintains it meticulously and cleans his records to the same high standards. It sounds decent of course, but I would take digital all day long, everyday over vinyl without a moments hesitation.

You would have to pay me to use vinyl. All of the time and work required simply to get a nice sounding, but audibly compromised end result? Just don't see it. I do know that all of that time wasted is precisely what lovers of the format enjoy so as they say, one person's poison, another person's....
 
I'll likely be a cartridge/headshell-swapper in the future. I can feel it.
Well, then, that does influence your ultimate pick for a table. But I'd still say, weigh the amount of the dive you want to take. Remember the old New Yorker cartoon caption (paraphrasing), "The things that attracted me to playing records were the inconvenience and the expense." It's a different thing to find you're really a bit annoyed if you spent $400 versus $1500 for initial equipment. You can start with a dive into the shallow end and always sell that table off later for close to what you paid if you want to go deeper.

I am blessed by not having golden ears, perhaps there are minute differences between cartridges and styli but the end effect is very very minor to my ears. The Audio-Technica 95 microline makes me perfectly happy - long life, tracks well, less inner groove distortion, sounds good.
 
No, the front-firing sub would be facing me seated in my listening position directly, positioned lower and immediately in between the speakers that will sit on top, either side of a Samsung TV. The Wiim Ultra will fit right underneath the TV, as the TV is on legs. The turntable will go immediately to the right in the corner of the room. In my listening position, the back of my chair is up against the wall.

Here is a picture taken from exactly where I would be seated, about 1.0-1.2m away from where the speakers would be, with my head very close to on-axis with the waveguide and woofer of KH120s. Forgive the random s**t in the shelf at the moment - this is a work in progress.View attachment 392225
I like how the whiskey is at hand front and center. I need to do this in my own room.
I bought two B&W ASW610’s in 2007 or 2008. They sound fine, but both blew up about a year or two ago. So they lasted over 15 years, which I guess is a decent amount of time. The plates amps blew on both. The drivers are still good. Replacement amps are available for about US$500 each. It just kind of soured me on B&W.
Don’t know if that little tidbit is either here or there, but I would say get the KH120’s, and add a genuine Neumann sub later, when you’ve saved up enough. I think you’ll be very happy.
 
I like how the whiskey is at hand front and center. I need to do this in my own room.
I bought two B&W ASW610’s in 2007 or 2008. They sound fine, but both blew up about a year or two ago. So they lasted over 15 years, which I guess is a decent amount of time. The plates amps blew on both. The drivers are still good. Replacement amps are available for about US$500 each. It just kind of soured me on B&W.
Don’t know if that little tidbit is either here or there, but I would say get the KH120’s, and add a genuine Neumann sub later, when you’ve saved up enough. I think you’ll be very happy.
Yeah - that crystal decanter was a throwback. I put Buffalo Trace in it right now. It used to be Maker's Mark. Considering I am in Ireland, maybe one day I will develop a taste for peat.

That's what will happen (getting the KH120s and much later a Neumann sub), although I have no idea where I would put it. Maybe in the dead space at the left corner of the room, where the Kallax and the desk meet? Maybe that's too much corner and too much concealment. Research I need to do after I buy these mains, and fun research at that.
 
I've made the decision on the turntable - it's the Pro-Ject X1 B (somebody made a mistake somewhere, and I am getting it for 850EUR instead of the 1,200EUR it was listed at), and I will stick with the Pick-It Pro B cartridge for now. My next upgrade steps will be (in no particular order) cartridge, phono stage, sub-woofer.

Last question to resolve now is which mains, and it's likely the Neumann KH120s (Genelecs look ugly, I know how horrible that sounds) but I am happy I have decided on the WiiM Ultra and turntable for now. I feel relief.
There you go, you ask for experienced posters to help and then go your own way with an expensive deck fitted with the lively, 600Hz resonance carbon-fibre tonearm (as measured by HiFi World a few years back) and a 2M derived cartridge which may be fine on new digitally-derived pressings, but unkind (if the 2M Red or Blue is similar) to old ones :(

Why did I bother.... 'Cos it used to be my effin' job, that's why - mumbles off into the distance in a huff ;)
 
There you go, you ask for experienced posters to help and then go your own way with an expensive deck fitted with the lively, 600Hz resonance carbon-fibre tonearm (as measured by HiFi World a few years back) and a 2M derived cartridge which may be fine on new digitally-derived pressings, but unkind (if the 2M Red or Blue is similar) to old ones :(

Why did I bother.... 'Cos it used to be my effin' job, that's why - mumbles off into the distance in a huff ;)
Well, I haven't bought it yet, and that's the beauty of free will... collect information from reliable, reputable sources, but ultimately, do what's right for you, and when it's right, too. If advice comes with the expectation I follow all of it, for somebody else's reasons...that's just as bad as succumbing to the sales pitches of manufacturers.

Clearly I'm back and forth on a variety of things, and I'm not done until money leaves my account. Everybody's wisdom is acknowledged, not ignored...but not guaranteed to be followed, either.
 
As you’ve now seemingly finalised your equipment, you should now think a bit about acoustic treatment. I’m thinking especially behind your head at the listening position as there is a wall right behind you. I’d imagine that you’d need some absorbtion here.
 
As you’ve now seemingly finalised your equipment, you should now think a bit about acoustic treatment. I’m thinking especially behind your head at the listening position as there is a wall right behind you. I’d imagine that you’d need some absorbtion here.
I was thinking narrow GIK acoustic panels. It's actually a set of 3 closet doors, measuring ~30-33cm across and a single wall panel where I WAS planning on hanging pictures, or a few floating shelves...but #acoustics. There's also an option on the back of the door (when it's closed). Here's a picture of the back wall.

I just started searching for ideals. This came up but I am sure there are better options. While I don't like the need to cut for a specific dimension, akuwoodpanel.ie have some reasonably nice looking options.

7d638a56-e3a1-4ceb-9c09-b67b938439a9.jpeg
 
Last edited:
This revelation I've arrived at, thanks to ASR, is what has me leaning toward a Technics SL-1500C. No fuss, direct drive, detachable headshell so I can futz around with cartridges later, and built in phono stage (if I go WiiM Amp to passives rather than WiiM Ultra to actives).

The challenge here is I've got a 300EUR price match discount to take advantage of on a great belt drive TT (Pro-Ject X1 B) that could go balanced from TT to phono (if I wanted it to in the future)...and so if I go that route, it pretty much determines the Ultra path, because I need a phono stage of some sort, even if the investment in a balanced input one comes later.


A balanced output from a TT with a MC cartridge to a phono stage drops the noise floor considerably. I want the cleanest and strongest sound from the TT, in whatever way that manifests...so is a balanced signal from a quality phono stage into the WiiM Ultra/Amp outweighed by an unbalanced signal from a higher quality cartridge directly to the Wiim Ultra/Amp?

I know that depends on the phono stage and the cartridge in question. I also know that the safest answer I am going to get is "you should let your ears determine that"...but if there is NOT a clear answer to the above, I might look at this from a "what do I get for my money right now?" perspective:
  1. Pro-Ject X1 B > balanced mini XLR output > Pro-Ject S3 B = ~1.1K
  2. Technics SL1500C = ~1.1K
The best way to determine this is working from speakers backward - in my restricted listening space "are Revel M16 speakers +200EUR savings equal to or better than Neumann KH 120 II speakers?" If they are, TT option 1 wins. On the other hand, if KH120s are far and away the best choice even considering the 200EUR premium, then that settles it, and I go with TT #2.
Neumann's have a slightly better response and will be the best for a small room due to their dispersion pattern (similar to the Kef for that matters), the M16 have quite a wide dispersion and got a bass hump, so you'll have to take care of side reflexions (ie amir's review) however still a very capable speaker.
 
There you go, you ask for experienced posters to help and then go your own way with an expensive deck fitted with the lively, 600Hz resonance carbon-fibre tonearm (as measured by HiFi World a few years back) and a 2M derived cartridge which may be fine on new digitally-derived pressings, but unkind (if the 2M Red or Blue is similar) to old ones :(

Why did I bother.... 'Cos it used to be my effin' job, that's why - mumbles off into the distance in a huff ;)
As a samurai does he want to be Toshiro Mifune or Alain Delon or Forest Whitaker? I too am disappointed in the selection of the European lightweight pretty boy. But I get that some people think Delon is one of the handsomest actors ever, not my style (pasty, unauthentic, undernourished), but also not my choice.
 
I was thinking narrow GIK acoustic panels. It's actually a set of 3 closet doors, measuring ~30-33cm across and a single wall panel where I WAS planning on hanging pictures, or a few floating shelves...but #acoustics. There's also an option on the back of the door (when it's closed). Here's a picture of the back wall.

I just started searching for ideals. This came up but I am sure there are better options. While I don't like the need to cut for a specific dimension, akuwoodpanel.ie have some reasonably nice looking options.

View attachment 392259
I’d say a closet is better than a wall! You will just be trying to cancel or diffuse the reflections coming off the doors to your ears. Acoustic foam is not really up to much when it comes to being effective. You could just try a heavy fabric curtain that you could slide out of the way to get access to the doors or you could make yourself some rock-wool panels covered in fabric that would be mounted to the doors (checking that the hinges can take the extra weight!). Your diy skills don’t need to be advanced to make really cost-effective acoustic treatment that works.
A free-standing gobo panel behind your chair is another option. You just move it out of the way when you want access to the closet. Once again easy to diy, or buy if building stuff is not your forté!
 
Last edited:
I was thinking narrow GIK acoustic panels. It's actually a set of 3 closet doors, measuring ~30-33cm across and a single wall panel where I WAS planning on hanging pictures, or a few floating shelves...but #acoustics. There's also an option on the back of the door (when it's closed). Here's a picture of the back wall.
1. You don't have enough space in that room for all the bass traps it would need hence we all recommend using EQ for the bass.

2. Don't fix high frequency reflection until you've verified that you need to. For playback reflections can be beneficial or annoying. Measure, listen, decide.

3. Acoustic treatment is where DIY and getting creative within the given constraints really pay off.

Here's a picture of my study / music room. There's space to put at least 2" thick rock wool behind the wall rug. I just haven't done it yet.

 
It's Neumanns for now, via SPDIF from the WiiM Ultra, using volume control, room correction and EQ from the WiiM. Man, I feel like I am gonna f**k this all up when I try to set it up. Maybe I'll just leave it in boxes and stare at the manufacturer labelling.
Sounds like a solid plan to me. If you run into trouble setting it up, the same crowd of opinion-givers will be here to diagnose. The tricky part is really only the room correction part, since it somewhat depends on where the mic is, etc. But there are plenty of tutorials on room correction here.
 
Do not do this. I tried it. I built a subwoofer specifically for fitting into Ikea Expedit. Where will the sub be located? Given the low listening distance the sub must be between the speakers. People say you cannot locate sounds below 80hz but you definitely can, the sub must be between the speakers.
I would dispute this to an extent. I have stereo subs in my office on the front wall, symmetrical with the mains, so good as far as that goes.

Still, I could not localize them below 60hz even with unrealistic test conditions. Above that, yes, a little.

IMO If OP uses one sub off-center and crosses fairly low it will be a very, very small compromise in localizability, with the big benefit of actually getting the bottom octave.
Now if I could just get better at understanding Amir's fancy graphs, and not just scrolling down to the bottom of his review for the TL;dr.
The main / first thing to get a grip on is the frequency response graphs.

What they are showing: You feed the speaker a pure tone at a fixed volume. It sweeps up from 20hz all the way to 20,000hz+. The graph shows the volume of the tone that actually comes out of the speaker. A perfect speaker would take in a pure tone at a fixed volume, and play back a pure tone at a fixed volume, so the graph would just go straight across, flat / horizontal.

Real speakers have limitations and flaws in that they play some frequencies louder than others... so this is where all the wiggles in the frequency response graphs come from.

The KH120 is considered really good because while it doesn't make a perfectly flat line all the way across, it comes way closer than most speakers out there.

Hope that makes sense, and like others have said, no more overthinking, time for listening and enjoying. :)
 
In regards to the cables, I’m with @Blumlein 88 who added an important caveat: so long as you know the performance won’t be different, there’s nothing wrong with paying more for something like the Audioquest, or other cables, if you care about how the cables look.

I myself, don’t go in for expensive cables, and I don’t care how cables look because I hide them.

But if I absolutely had to see the cables in my system, I may well choose ones that look better than others, even if a bit more expensive. (or I may not because cables just don’t interest me.)
 
If OP uses one sub off-center and crosses fairly low it will be a very, very small compromise in localizability, with the big benefit of actually getting the bottom octave.
So I'm not interested in LF volume--just extension, and I think any of the B&W options I posted will suffice, and I'm guessing because they're front-facing, I could get away with stuffing it into the Kallax, straight on to my listening position, centered low between the speakers.

The KH120 get pretty low, so my cross will likely be around 50Hz I'm guessing. I could be wrong, because I know nothing...but am I thinking correctly?
Hope that makes sense, and like others have said, no more overthinking, time for listening and enjoying. :)
I will!
 
What's important about cables apart from their integrity,in small spaces,is flexibility.
Specially with light devices.

And not only angle-wise but twisting them too (at a sane point) .
Not all are nice in that way.

I ask again,have you thought about the balanced>unbalanced matter that you will face?
 
Back
Top Bottom