After 9 Months of Research - Rate My First System (Before I Buy It)!

[DSJR]

That's just magnetic pickup from the amp's transformer field leakage, as any dealer should have known. It's nothing to do with the Rega's motor. Decks with steel below, like the LP12's subchassis back then, probably provided some incidental magnetic shielding. I suppose the Rega cartridges might have been relatively light on magnetic shielding too - I've never used one. I always considered putting the arm, cartridge or cables close to a large transformer to be asking for trouble, which is probably why I never ran into this 'problem.'

Oh, the Airpax motors aren't hum-field free and decks made after 2000 or so, used adhesive rings to hold the motor in place on the plinth laminate (sounds awful, doesn't it) with no metallic content above (laminate, then glass platter. I can scan HiFi Choice tests with some objective data if required.

I'm making a perfect case for an SL100C aren't I?

I still think the AT LP5X might be worth a good looking at, as apparently, the 120XUSB is a plastic shell with steel? plates to make it appear heavy.....

 

[digitalfrost]

I know it's already complicated, but I want to make a suggestion of my own. For such a small space you do not need big speakers in terms of sound power. While the KH120 is pretty much a perfect speaker, it falls off below 60hz. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh120-ii-monitor-review.46362/

Personally that lower octave is important to me.

Now what you spend on vinyl is a very wide range. The thing is, you can sink fortunes into vinyl and still be not perfect, while you can reach speaker nirvana for a reasonable amount of money. That said, given the requirements here, I'd rather get smaller speakers with a subwoofer.

The Neumann KH80+Sub I cannot recommend because spending 1500 on a sub is just insane https://www.thomann.de/de/neumann_kh_80_dsp_sub_bundle.htm

But I think they would be a good option if you'd be open to using another subwoofer. The KH80 is also a perfect speaker, but for sure it needs a sub https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...eumann-kh80-dsp-monitor-measurements-3.14637/

Given that the WiiM Ultra has a sub-out it would be very easy to integrate a cheaper subwoofer. A pair of KH80 is less than 1000€. KH120 is 1500€. You can find a good subwoofer for 500€.

Also while I agree that getting the best speakers than you can is the right thing to do, I think a bit too much here is looking at getting the perfect speaker. There are plenty of good options for less. For example:

https://www.thomann.de/de/focal_alpha_65_evo.htm (reviewed here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...cal-alpha-65-evo-review-studio-monitor.28832/) + https://www.thomann.de/de/focal_sub_one.htm This also cost 1500 but you have a subwoofer. You could also take the smaller Alpha 50. I also like that the Focal Sub is dual-opposed so nothing will rattle as the enclosure will be inert.

Given the space constraints I'd also set some budget aside for speaker stands or wall mounting.

My 2cts.

 

[Wolf11Man]

For 344

I still think the AT LP5X might be worth a good looking at, as apparently, the 120XUSB is a plastic shell with steel? plates to make it appear heavy.....

For 344€ the AT LP5X seems quite some value

 

[56suited]

If you go Neumann, Genelec or Adam, you don't do anything wrong. Do not take the measurements too serious. You will not even find a part of that curve in a measurement in your room. So a dip is no sign of lower quality or sound, but may even suit your room better. Sorry, but this is the ugly truth. There are speaker on the market that have serious "mistakes" to call it so. Like high 3rd order distortion in the upper frequency band. Not with the brands you consider. They are all well made.

If you decide to get a new record player, try to get it without a pickup for small refund. You will see the factory cartridge is just worth nothing to the dealer in most cases. Tells you something about its quality.
The red Ortofon is quite nice pickup, you can upgrade it if you like, later, to blue. The Ortofon bronze can be fitted with the black needle.

I've made the decision on the turntable - it's the Pro-Ject X1 B (somebody made a mistake somewhere, and I am getting it for 850EUR instead of the 1,200EUR it was listed at), and I will stick with the Pick-It Pro B cartridge for now. My next upgrade steps will be (in no particular order) cartridge, phono stage, sub-woofer.

Last question to resolve now is which mains, and it's likely the Neumann KH120s (Genelecs look ugly, I know how horrible that sounds) but I am happy I have decided on the WiiM Ultra and turntable for now. I feel relief.

 

[56suited]

I know it's already complicated, but I want to make a suggestion of my own. For such a small space you do not need big speakers in terms of sound power. While the KH120 is pretty much a perfect speaker, it falls off below 60hz. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh120-ii-monitor-review.46362/

Personally that lower octave is important to me.

Now what you spend on vinyl is a very wide range. The thing is, you can sink fortunes into vinyl and still be not perfect, while you can reach speaker nirvana for a reasonable amount of money. That said, given the requirements here, I'd rather get smaller speakers with a subwoofer.

The Neumann KH80+Sub I cannot recommend because spending 1500 on a sub is just insane https://www.thomann.de/de/neumann_kh_80_dsp_sub_bundle.htm

But I think they would be a good option if you'd be open to using another subwoofer. The KH80 is also a perfect speaker, but for sure it needs a sub https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...eumann-kh80-dsp-monitor-measurements-3.14637/

Given that the WiiM Ultra has a sub-out it would be very easy to integrate a cheaper subwoofer. A pair of KH80 is less than 1000€. KH120 is 1500€. You can find a good subwoofer for 500€.

Also while I agree that getting the best speakers than you can is the right thing to do, I think a bit too much here is looking at getting the perfect speaker. There are plenty of good options for less. For example:

https://www.thomann.de/de/focal_alpha_65_evo.htm (reviewed here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...cal-alpha-65-evo-review-studio-monitor.28832/) + https://www.thomann.de/de/focal_sub_one.htm This also cost 1500 but you have a subwoofer. You could also take the smaller Alpha 50. I also like that the Focal Sub is dual-opposed so nothing will rattle as the enclosure will be inert.

Given the space constraints I'd also set some budget aside for speaker stands or wall mounting.

My 2cts.

It's likely the KH120 with no sub (at least not right away), or the KH80 and either the Bowers & Wilkins ASW608 or the ASW610. I'm frankly scared about the concept of a sub in my small space, and being able to figure out how to configure it in the WiiM app, but I do feel I need that lower end. If I get either of the subs above, they are going into one of these bottom cubbies, facing me centered, about 1m away from my feet (that is not my room...stock photo).

Am I gonna die and hate myself? Should I just stick with the 120s and forget the woofer?

 

[digitalfrost]

If I get either of the subs above, they are going into one of these bottom cubbies, facing me centered, about 1m away from my feet (that is not my room...stock photo).

Am I gonna die and hate myself? Should I just stick with the 120s and forget the woofer?

Do not do this. I tried it. I built a subwoofer specifically for fitting into Ikea Expedit. Where will the sub be located? Given the low listening distance the sub must be between the speakers. People say you cannot locate sounds below 80hz but you definitely can, the sub must be between the speakers. And if you put a normal subwoofer into a rack like that, you will always hear where it's coming from because the sub is also slightly shaking the rack (unless it's dual-opposed drivers). I tried this with the sub being 90° to my listenting position and it does not work.

 

[56suited]

Do not do this. I tried it. I built a subwoofer specifically for fitting into Ikea Expedit. Where will the sub be located? Given the low listening distance the sub must be between the speakers. People say you cannot locate sounds below 80hz but you definitely can, the sub must be between the speakers. And if you put a normal subwoofer into a rack like that, you will always hear where it's coming from because the sub is also slightly shaking the rack (unless it's dual-opposed drivers). I tried this with the sub being 90° to my listenting position and it does not work.

No, the front-firing sub would be facing me seated in my listening position directly, positioned lower and immediately in between the speakers that will sit on top, either side of a Samsung TV. The Wiim Ultra will fit right underneath the TV, as the TV is on legs. The turntable will go immediately to the right in the corner of the room. In my listening position, the back of my chair is up against the wall.

Here is a picture taken from exactly where I would be seated, about 1.0-1.2m away from where the speakers would be, with my head very close to on-axis with the waveguide and woofer of KH120s. Forgive the random s**t in the shelf at the moment - this is a work in progress.

 

[Wolf11Man]

I just realized I got a Kalax too. Just yesterday I was anoyed about it resonating from an Echo Dot 3 that is sitting there. Good luck with this hollow honey comb paper-plastc mix. Not what I would call an audio board.

If you got a solid wall, it may be a good idea to permanetly fix a solid shelf for the record player.
A cheap audiophile board to have the turntable rest upon is a simple concrete pavement slab, cut to size.

PS I still try to understand what attracts you to that, considering your budget, over expensive record player. Maybe I'm too technical objective to understand.
I found it for 649€ on the first try, including tax. So still a lot of profit on the "mistake price".

 

[56suited]

I just realized I got a Kalax too. Just yesterday I was anoyed about it resonating from an Echo Dot 3 that is sitting there. Good luck with this hollow honey comb paper-plastc mix. Not what I would call an audio board.

If you got a solid wall, it may be a good idea to permanetly fix a solid shelf for the record player.
A cheap audiophile board to have the turntable rest upon is a simple concrete pavement slab, cut to size.

I can iso pad the speakers and further isolate the turntable later if I have problems. These are the furniture choices I've made, so I am living with them.

 

[56suited]

PS I still try to understand what attracts you to that, considering your budget, over expensive record player. Maybe I'm too technical objective to understand.

I understand the head-scratching. I suppose after all this time, I can't come to terms with the wow and flutter of inexpensive turntables, and inexpensive turntables with upgrades such as heavier sub-platters, better cartridges, etc. turn out to be more expensive in the long-run. And while expensive, a 300EUR haircut because somebody has made a mistake with the wrong listed retail price is an opportunity I can't ignore. I'm getting a ~1.1K turntable for ~800.

 

[Multicore]

Had to look up what's inside these. Looks like twin beefy 37ish mm wideband speakers plus a weighted passive radiator? Seems decently service-friendly, too.

I've been using a Bose SoundLink Mini II for about 10 years daily. It's been in for service once and got a new battery and several other parts renewed to make it look like new. It's very useful. It's not impressive on SQ for music but a huge improvement on the speakers in a laptop or phone for any kind of audio.

Recently I had to part with a 25 year old Asko laundry washer. The plastic moldings on the front were disintegrating and I couldn't find replacements. I was bummed to see it go. I'd like to keep the SoundLink for at least that long.

 

[Wolf11Man]

OK, 129€ for a 12€ mini XLR cable. I give up.

https://www.euronics.de/tv-und-audio/hifi-und-audio/hifi-bausteine/plattenspieler/x1-b-plattenspieler-inkl.-pick-it-s2-mm-tonabnehmer-hochglanz-weiss-4065327491159?ecf=O65Iy8P1WSStQuu3urzFZ%2Bfe2ujEMxQ3m6SRnYjAF5Vzt9fMxnJV1wccyi58XJ3QeEmSzm7AdV2wMpmwJU%2F65XsbRR1PzDK3bHFTyukWjec%3D&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw6JS3BhBAEiwAO9waF66wbbSkvBTvBQVPpkTJh7SbOs27gKPbquCvjV9yX9qp05-2FgFynRoChFQQAvD_BwE

 

[Multicore]

@kemmler3D what if I went totally wild and did this set-up instead? Would I be alright in such a small space, knowing I wouldn't be cranking it past 85db?

• KEF Kube 8 Sub
• KEF LS50 Meta
• WiiM Amp
• Technics SL1500C (built in phono)

That's right about 3K and incl. a sub that will fit in my shelf.

Yes! Very good. I love it.

I am still not sure the sub is a good idea in your small room. But the only way to know for sure is to try it. If you can return it if you prefer the system without then you're not out of pocket. I have a sub in a closet because I spent too long trying to convince myself that it's an improvement.

Maybe that's crazy and I should stick with the Neumanns and the WiiM Ultra. The death spiral of over-analyzing.

It's not crazy. Nor is it over-analyzing. These are both good options so there's no avoiding the existentialist imperative. Religion, social norms, and even engineering and acoustics can't answer this one for you. You must choose.

 

[56suited]

OK, 129€ for a 12€ mini XLR cable. I give up.

https://www.euronics.de/tv-und-audio/hifi-und-audio/hifi-bausteine/plattenspieler/x1-b-plattenspieler-inkl.-pick-it-s2-mm-tonabnehmer-hochglanz-weiss-4065327491159?ecf=O65Iy8P1WSStQuu3urzFZ%2Bfe2ujEMxQ3m6SRnYjAF5Vzt9fMxnJV1wccyi58XJ3QeEmSzm7AdV2wMpmwJU%2F65XsbRR1PzDK3bHFTyukWjec%3D&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw6JS3BhBAEiwAO9waF66wbbSkvBTvBQVPpkTJh7SbOs27gKPbquCvjV9yX9qp05-2FgFynRoChFQQAvD_BwE

1. That is white. I do not want white.
2. None of the X1 B on that site, listed at higher prices than what I am getting, are equipped with the Pick It Pro Balanced cartridge, which is a higher quality cartridge
3. The mini-XLR cable is being thrown in for free

 

[56suited]

Yes! Very good. I love it.

I am still not sure the sub is a good idea in your small room. But the only way to know for sure is to try it. If you can return it if you prefer the system without then you're not out of pocket. I have a sub in a closet because I spent too long trying to convince myself that it's an improvement.


It's not crazy. Nor is it over-analyzing. These are both good options so there's no avoiding the existentialist imperative. Religion, social norms, and even engineering and acoustics can't answer this one for you. You must choose.

I am really enjoying your vibe, overall, in this journey. You come across like a pleasant person genuinely interested in the journey, and the joy of others, unlike a small proportion of others here. It's all good advice, but something needs to be said for how it is delivered.

 

[Wolf11Man]

You are right, only the white one is 649. I simply found the cable price by accident. You got to upgrade your X1 B with the better power supply if want it to be really good. That's what they say...

The Pick It Pro Balanced cartridge is 189€ nothing to write home about.

 

[Multicore]

I am really enjoying your vibe, overall, in this journey. You come across like a pleasant person genuinely interested in the journey, and the joy of others, unlike a small proportion of others here. It's all good advice, but something needs to be said for how it is delivered.

If you really want, you can follow links in my .sig to find youtubes of me giving music lessons to camera or podcasts in which I fail to explain to Gavin why I dislike John Updike and Freddie Hubbard but like Buckethead and Sun Ra. There's even a podcast ep in which we put YouTube 'Splainers under the microscope as a genre; ah the hilarious self-referential contradiction of trying to have it both ways!

 

[Spkrdctr]

Way too much all over the place advice, but well intentioned. The KH120s look fantastic as far as performance goes. You will NOT need a sub with those at the moment. Going from your Bose to the 120s will seem as if you added a sub. So grab the speakers at the best price, get your TT at the best price and any other accessories you want and go for it! This thread will go on for 5 years and thousands of advice posts if you don't pull the trigger soon. LOL You have pretty much decided on a FANTASTIC system. You looked at all the options and in my opinion you made all the right decisions. Forget the sub. It is a waste of money at this time. Your room is too small and the 120s will blow you away compared to your Bose box. I have to say you have done a great job of wisely choosing and getting advice on ASR. Well done sir! It is time to enjoy your research and make the purchase. The number one thing is to let us know how you like it after you have listened to it for about a month. We all like after set up reports on how stuff sounds. We live through you vicariously. I am now waiting to hear you pull the trigger and buy. I am very jealous too. I wish I was buying some new stuff!!

 

[56suited]

Way too much all over the place advice, but well intentioned. The KH120s look fantastic as far as performance goes. You will NOT need a sub with those at the moment. Going from your Bose to the 120s will seem as if you added a sub. So grab the speakers at the best price, get your TT at the best price and any other accessories you want and go for it! This thread will go on for 5 years and thousands of advice posts if you don't pull the trigger soon. LOL You have pretty much decided on a FANTASTIC system. You looked at all the options and in my opinion you made all the right decisions. Forget the sub. It is a waste of money at this time. Your room is too small and the 120s will blow you away compared to your Bose box. I have to say you have done a great job of wisely choosing and getting advice on ASR. Well done sir! It is time to enjoy your research and make the purchase. The number one thing is to let us know how you like it after you have listened to it for about a month. We all like after set up reports on how stuff sounds. We live through you vicariously. I am now waiting to hear you pull the trigger and buy. I am very jealous too. I wish I was buying some new stuff!!

I said to myself "this is what I needed to hear". Alright. Doing it. Consider this thread semi-dead.

1. Turntable of my choice, stay sub-900 whatever I choose.
2. WiiM Ultra, serving as phono stage, streamer, DAC, preamp, room correction, EQ, PEQ, with HDMI eARC from the Samsung TV, and RCA from the turntable
3. Neumann KH120 using SPDIF from the WiiM Ultra, daisy-chained to second speaker

Also, worth noting, "don't be a dumbass and spend more than 20EUR on cables". The upgrade possibilities are endless. Cartridges, phono stages, better DACs, better pre-amps, sub-woofers - they can wait.

I appreciate everybody's time and effort. Enthusiasts show their enthusiasm by having very strong opinions, and very strong urges to get involved, and the ASR community is second to none.

Now if I could just get better at understanding Amir's fancy graphs, and not just scrolling down to the bottom of his review for the TL;dr.

 

[Multicore]

The number one thing is to let us know how you like it after you have listened to it for about a month.

We have enforcement teams in a number of countries, just so you know @56suited .

I am very jealous too. I wish I was buying some new stuff!!

Mmm. That Technics deck...