Affordable Tube Preamp recommendation

[DrSpan]

Hello everyone.

I always wanted to try a Tube circuitry but always somehow never did it.

As time goes by and we get older i thought to maybe try it out of curiosity first.

I read the review of AIYIMA T1 Pro here and it got me thinking

Are there any „hidden gems“ of Tube Preamps that would give me a good tube sound but are at the same time affordable? I don`t want a clean amp.
I want it to obviously color the sound but not destroy it if that makes sense

Dont want to start with a 3000 euro device.

Lets set a budget up to 300-400 euros max but would prefer a „hidden gem“ as a first encounter

It`s going to be a „sidekick“ experiment. I do sound design and would like to color some channels and see if i like it.
Also nice if it was compact in size. Thats why i brought up the AIYIMA T1 Pro

Please do not suggest software solutions. I have more than enough software solutions.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Maybe something like this.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TPSII--art-tps-ii-2-channel-tube-microphone-preamplifier-with-v3

Now I've not used one. I've owned old tube preamps previously from Cary, Conrad-Johnson and McIntosh.

You could save yourself the trouble. Tube power amps have more of a sound. Pre's are often pretty clean. The ART unit has been intentionally designed with a sound, and might do what you want, plus you can dial in the effect. It does microphones or line level which presumably you just need line level.

 

[JSmith]

I don`t want a clean amp

Then pour some dirt on it?

My serious question would be... why? That goal is the opposite of high fidelity audio.


JSmith

 

[DrSpan]

Then pour some dirt on it?

My serious question would be... why? That goal is the opposite of high fidelity audio.


JSmith

I obviously don`t want it for high fidelity audio reasons. If you read me saying
"I don`t want a clean amp“. Dunno where you got the „The goal is“ and what the right thing is.
Same as people also listen to vinyl. Vinyl is not „good“ by todays standards and yet
, there are still weird people that like the sound. Go figure

I find it more „why“ when someone who is also into sound asks me „why do you want to do something that i can`t imagine anyone doing?“

 

[DrSpan]

Maybe something like this.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TPSII--art-tps-ii-2-channel-tube-microphone-preamplifier-with-v3

Now I've not used one. I've owned old tube preamps previously from Cary, Conrad-Johnson and McIntosh.

You could save yourself the trouble. Tube power amps have more of a sound. Pre's are often pretty clean. The ART unit has been intentionally designed with a sound, and might do what you want, plus you can dial in the effect. It does microphones or line level which presumably you just need line level.

I have seen this Art preamp in the past.

Only thing i dont liek is that it is really ugly but more importantly , Big

The reson i mentioned this cheap china preamp but failed to explain is that i like its form factor

 

[JSmith]

I obviously don`t want it for high fidelity audio reasons.

So what are you after, harmonic distortion, FR changes or noise?


JSmith

 

[DrSpan]

So what are you after, harmonic distortion, FR changes or noise?


JSmith

Subtle Tube harmonic distortion first is the main target. FR changes are inevitable in this price range imho. Noise also i predict. It`s ok i don`t expect wonders
for the money.

Just to clarify. I want to experiment with it. My aim is not - i repeat NOT high end sound

I modified my Post so it should make more sense now.

 

[LTig]

Hello everyone.

I always wanted to try a Tube circuitry but always somehow never did it.

As time goes by and we get older i thought to maybe try it out of curiosity first.

I read the review of AIYIMA T1 Pro here and it got me thinking

Are there any „hidden gems“ of Tube Preamps that would give me a good tube sound but are at the same time affordable? I don`t want a clean amp.
I want it to obviously color the sound but not destroy it if that makes sense

Dont want to start with a 3000 euro device.

Lets set a budget up to 300-400 euros max but would prefer a „hidden gem“ as a first encounter

It`s going to be a „sidekick“ experiment. I do sound design and would like to color some channels and see if i like it.
Also nice if it was compact in size. Thats why i brought up the AIYIMA T1 Pro

The AIYIMA T1 Pro should be a good start, so why not go for it?

 

[JSmith]

Just to clarify. I want to experiment with it.

There was a reason for my question, as if you just want differing levels of harmonic distortion, you can do this via plug-ins or even by obtaining a DAC like some SMSL models that have "sound color" options... this basically alters the harmonic distortion as per below;

Whether you can hear any difference is another matter... what is most noticeable is FR changes, IMD and noise from a pre-amp/amp for e.g.

If you just get one device with a baked in "sound", you can't experiment with it as you can't alter it... unless you want to keep buying more gear.


JSmith

 

[DrSpan]

There was a reason for my question, as if you just want differing levels of harmonic distortion, you can do this via plug-ins or even by obtaining a DAC like some SMSL models that have "sound color" options... this basically alters the harmonic distortion as per below;

View attachment 392036

Whether you can hear any difference is another matter... what is most noticeable is FR changes, IMD and noise from a pre-amp/amp for e.g.

If you just get one device with a baked in "sound", you can't experiment with it as you can't alter it... unless you want to keep buying more gear.


JSmith

I don`t mind if a device has a baked in sound as long as i like it. Same with speakers. You could spend your lifetime looking for the right speaker.

Plugin wise i own probably all of the „best“ plugins already. In my experience however i have encountered times where emulations while they do not sounded
„bad“, were pretty Off their target of emulation. Example, i owned an Spl Vitalizer Mk2 T with tubes. I also own the Plugin.
When i compared them in real life on my system i could hear a difference in sound stage in Night and Day proportions.
I hear almost no difference in most Compressors vs Plugins tbh though.
In emulating analog distortion, plugins are there but not 100% It`s still like 97%.

In short. I am not looking for emulations or solutions like the Smsl but thank you for the suggestion.
"what is most noticeable is FR changes, IMD and noise from a pre-amp/amp for e.g“ in my experience this comes with the territory, especially the lower you go in cost

Another aspect in sound design is the haptic. It is different to use a hardware tape recorder in order to saturate a synth than it is using a tape emulation.
Not because the real tape sounds „better“ but because the workflow forces you to approach it differently and more determined at times cause you
know what a fuzz it would be having to do it multiple times. This way of doing things has a certain magic at times. Same goes for synths. I love emulation but i also sometimes simply have to use a dedicated standalone synth with physical knobs and interact in this way. Hope that makes sense. Its a method. The device is not the protagonist, only the way of thinking in the moment is

It is a never ending story.

 

[DrSpan]

The AIYIMA T1 Pro should be a good start, so why not go for it?

The reason of my post is to gather information on similar choices cause it is very easy to loose overview of this insane global market and its offerings.
Thats why i ask in a like minded forum in order to exchange experiences

I could buy the Aiyima right now or wait 5 minutes and see what others have to say and decide later

 

[30 Ounce]

Vacuum Tube Audio preamp kits

Just a suggestion.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Get Distort software from pkane. You can dial in distortion profiles. Process a few tracks and figure it out. All free.

 

[DrSpan]

Vacuum Tube Audio preamp kits

Just a suggestion.

Looks interesting Thanks

 

[mhardy6647]

care to solder?

https://www.transcendentsound.com/slider.html

 

[MaxwellsEq]

You might consider something vintage?

As @Blumlein 88 already pointed out, you may be disappointed because tube preamplifiers only have a "sound" if they are faulty or deliberately mis-designed. In either case you aren't hearing "tube sound" but something wrong.

Real "tube sound" that people love so much, mostly comes from overload behaviour and transformer characteristics of tube power amplifiers.

 

[DrSpan]

Get Distort software from pkane. You can dial in distortion profiles. Process a few tracks and figure it out. All free.

Am not looking for software but thank you

You might consider something vintage?

As @Blumlein 88 already pointed out, you may be disappointed because tube preamplifiers only have a "sound" if they are faulty or deliberately mis-designed. In either case you aren't hearing "tube sound" but something wrong.

Real "tube sound" that people love so much, mostly comes from overload behaviour and transformer characteristics of tube power amplifiers.

your comment is either somehow contradictory or I don’t get it.
You start by basically saying that tubes only have a tube sound when the design is faulty only to later say that tube sound comes from overload behavior which basically also is „overload by design“.

Tubes will never be „super high definition“ cause they simply interfere with the signal too much

Tubes are adding harmonics by their very nature. That’s why some people find them
Pleasant. They also because of this saturation smear transients making them often sound rounder and less snappy and they do more than that .,, but ok
I know all of that,
I am staring to think that sometimes I fail to ask a question the right way cause there will often be people explaining to me how much 1+1 makes. You are not the first one.
This is not an attack, just thinking out loud.
I am in and out of the sound world for around 35 years now. I am no expert and also not a beginner

Ok. Maybe I should simply have asked
„I am looking for a cheap tube preamp that does sound like tubes and not like broken tubes“ or something like this

 

[DVDdoug]

I don`t mind if a device has a baked in sound as long as i like it.

And that's the rub.... You'll need to listen to decide if you like a particular amp.

Tubes are adding harmonics by their very nature. That’s why some people find them
Pleasant. They also because of this saturation smear transients making them often sound rounder and less snappy and they do more than that .,, but ok
I know all of that,

Transistors and MOSFETs aren't perfectly linear either. It all depends on circuit design. There's no reason for a tube preamp to be worse than a solid state amp.

As MaxwellsEq says, power amps are a different story. Good output transformers are expensive. Some tube preamps have transformers but that's usually microphone preamps with a transformer on the mic input.

​

 

[Daverz]

There's a large library of classic recordings from the tube era ready for streaming or download. Those recordings have the tube warmth baked in, and neutral, competently engineered equipment reproduces it very well.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Ok. Maybe I should simply have asked
„I am looking for a cheap tube preamp that does sound like tubes and not like broken tubes“ or something like this

Firstly you are making the assumption tube sound is mostly about the harmonic distortion profile. That probably is not true. So tube pres with much of a sound are probably distorted or have frequency errors. So most preamps with tubes with a sound are almost a broken design by definition. ART and others used starved plate circuits to give plenty of tube-sound. It literally is a carefully broken design.

Tube power amps have what most are talking about in tube sound. It is mostly about high output impedance, the transformers which can have different FR at different power levels and overload differently or slightly compress peaks. Some tube pre's with transformers may have a tube sound too. Some studio gear uses transformers and other tricks to do this similar sort of thing.

I don't think I have ever heard a tube preamp for home hifi with a sound. I've heard lots of them.

I know you don't want a software solution. I would suggest again, as a check on your assumptions to try Distort. You can set each harmonic at any level you choose. My suggestion would be to go with the 2nd and 3rd harmonic. See how much 2nd harmonic only you need to hear it and if it smooths or otherwise enhances the sound. Then do 3rd and see if it only roughens the sound. Then try those combined. See how much it takes before you hear it. I think you'll be surprised. Plus you'll get to hear what that and that alone does.

You might get what you want with Warm Audio tube pres or even their tube/optical compressors. They use transformers. They are out of your budget, large and you probably will think them ugly. I think you are making some unwarranted assumptions and will struggle to achieve what you are looking to achieve. That is also why you aren't getting the answers you are seeking.