Affordable Accuracy Monitor Review

[tuga]

Then stop posting outrageous statement to constantly dispute science. Present your own data and not declarations that are so ridiculous as to need calling out. What I responded to was the worst thing I have seen you say. That Dr. Toole doesn't know the difference between a dip and peak? It showed that you have not read or understood one line of what he has written.

You have been on this crusade since you joined. Time you come up with another reason to be here.

I am disputing some of the research. I never said that "Toole doesn't know the difference between a dip and peak" but that "he seems to not make a distiction between peaks and dips in frequency response amplitude and their duration."
The reason for performing CSD and step-response measurements.

 

[amirm]

Audibility tests are scarce, often with miniscule samples and not always using the most effective methodology.

You mean you haven't read much of them. Audibility tests are numerous. You need to become a member of ASA, AES, etc. and read the literally hundreds of papers on this. There are 270+ references in Dr. Toole's book alone.

Here is a snapshot of the papers I have saved:

As to "methodology," you are not an expert in this field so you mere opinion of such is of no value.

 

[QMuse]

I am disputing some of the research.

You need to provide proof to dispute research, but you don't do that. As you are not the expert that means the only thing you're offering is your unqalified opinon.

 

[amirm]

I am disputing some of the research. I never said that "Toole doesn't know the difference between a dip and peak" but that "he seems to not make a distiction between peaks and dips in frequency response amplitude and their duration."
The reason for performing CSD and step-response measurements.

He explains why those are such poor tools especially in the hands of people who don't know what they are doing. I got so tired of explaining the same online that I wrote a full tutorial in it years back: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...urements-understanding-time-and-frequency.25/

Audiophiles are impressed by the look of such charts and believe them as such, not understanding the huge variables that go in them. And how little useful information can be had from them.

Next to killing reflections and turning their rooms into padded cells, believing in CSD/waterfall is the worst thing you can do in optimizing sound reproduction in your room.

 

[Shazb0t]

I am disputing some of the research. I never said that "Toole doesn't know the difference between a dip and peak" but that "he seems to not make a distiction between peaks and dips in frequency response amplitude and their duration."
The reason for performing CSD and step-response measurements.

You haven't disputed anything. You're just loud.

 

[Thomas savage]

I am disputing some of the research. I never said that "Toole doesn't know the difference between a dip and peak" but that "he seems to not make a distiction between peaks and dips in frequency response amplitude and their duration."
The reason for performing CSD and step-response measurements.

And you're qualifications that lend weight to this ?

I might as well sign up to a space forum as dispute the science of the universe, i wouldn't expect to be taken seriously let alone carry on banging on forever.

You're clogging up threads with what seems to be nothing more than self-indulgent nonsense.

I'm not sure how long I'm going to continue to allow this .

 

[tuga]

Next to killing reflections and turning their rooms into padded cells, believing in CSD/waterfall is the worst thing you can do in optimizing sound reproduction in your room.

In regard to the CSD and step was referering to speaker measurements, not room measurements.

 

[amirm]

In regard to the CSD and step was referering to speaker measurements, not room measurements.

Same algorithms. Same issues. I only post them because I am tired of explaining why I don't. They can be useful if you know what you searching for and can optimize the parameters to find it. This is why you actually see it in use by Dr. Toole. Outside of that, they create more confusion than help.

 

[tuga]

Same algorithms. Same issues. I only post them because I am tired of explaining why I don't. They can be useful if you know what you searching for and can optimize the parameters to find it. This is why you actually see it in use by Dr. Toole. Outside of that, they create more confusion than help.

The CSD and the individual nearfield measurements of the drivers have helped clarify issues raised by your measurements, as have nearfield measurements of the ports performed by other sources, as have THD measurements.
The Spinorama is insuficient to characterise speaker performance.

 

[MZKM]

The CSD and the individual nearfield measurements of the drivers have helped clarify issues raised by your measurements, as have nearfield measurements of the ports performed by other sources, as have THD measurements.
The Spinorama is insuficient to characterise speaker performance.

No one said it was the end all be all. Toole acknowledges it won’t show important aspects such as max SPL. However, for a single graph, it’s the best one we have so far.

 

[tuga]

No one said it was the end all be all. Toole acknowledges it won’t show important aspects such as max SPL. However, for a single graph, it’s the best one we have so far.

It serves it's purpose well regarding frequency response and directivity. But it can easily lead to an over-simplification of the speaker's performance and issues.

 

[JohnBooty]

This is highly self-interested since I own a pair, but I've always thought that the BIC RTR-EV15s fly under the radar as a platform for mods. At $400/pair for a 3-way with 15 inch woofers, there's plenty of room for a more complex crossover and maybe even an upgraded midrange or tweeter while remaining a crazy bargain. I wish I had the skills to do it.

I own a pair and while I'm just a hobbyist and not a trained listener, I really enjoy them. The dynamic range and sheer power handling on tap is absolutely insane, huh? Well-recorded music really shines on these.

I actually bought them for modding of a sort myself... I figured I could DSP them into something decent. Joke's on me; they sounded really good out of the box. Good enough that I never felt the need to mess with them as they are (unfortunately) not my daily drivers.

The only "mod" I've done is to raise them up about a foot from the floor which subjectively seemed to really clean up the bass due to (I'm assuming) reduced floor bounce. You do anything like that with yours?

So I take it you've heard this beast? The major red flag (and red woofer) I see is the horn tweeter. There was a lot of buzz about a BIC center channel for use with my speakers, and when I checked it out it was a real screamer. Typical horn sound, and that often can't be fixed with a better crossover. I agree it would be an interesting mod since so many high-sensitivity designs in that price range are highly colored. I very much like the sound of giant woofers, so it might be an attractive choice for a mod if the tweeter could be tamed.

I would describe the tweeters as okay! They are not doing anything offensive to me. They are not special but they are not screamers to my ears. One disclaimer is that my hearing is not great above 10khz so perhaps I'm more lenient here.

Overall, I don't feel they do a lot of things wrong. To me their sound quality is comparable to other < $500/pr speakers (like the JBL 306P, KEF Q100, various DIY kits) exceeeeeeept they play down into the 20-30hz range, are 95db efficient and can handle several hundred watts of power without breaking a sweat.

So I take it you've heard this beast? The major red flag (and red woofer)

The good news is that big ugly red thing is well-hidden by the included speaker grill covers. I think it's a very good performer so I don't hold its performance against it. At least not too much.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I own a pair and while I'm just a hobbyist and not a trained listener, I really enjoy them. The dynamic range and sheer power handling on tap is absolutely insane, huh? Well-recorded music really shines on these.

I actually bought them for modding of a sort myself... I figured I could DSP them into something decent. Joke's on me; they sounded really good out of the box. Good enough that I never felt the need to mess with them as they are (unfortunately) not my daily drivers.

The only "mod" I've done is to raise them up about a foot from the floor which subjectively seemed to really clean up the bass due to (I'm assuming) reduced floor bounce. You do anything like that with yours?


I would describe the tweeters as okay! They are not doing anything offensive to me. They are not special but they are not screamers to my ears. One disclaimer is that my hearing is not great above 10khz so perhaps I'm more lenient here.

Overall, I don't feel they do a lot of things wrong. To me their sound quality is comparable to other < $500/pr speakers (like the JBL 306P, KEF Q100, various DIY kits) exceeeeeeept they play down into the 20-30hz range, are 95db efficient and can handle several hundred watts of power without breaking a sweat.



The good news is that big ugly red thing is well-hidden by the included speaker grill covers. I think it's a very good performer so I don't hold its performance against it. At least not too much.

So I ordered one of these things out of curiosity. About a day later I noticed they weigh 62 lbs a piece. I wonder whether Amazon sells weight lifters.

 

[Severian]

Once my car broke down while I was hauling my pair of BICs home from using them as PAs to DJ a friend's wedding (for which they were superb, and made for a great visual). The car was stuck for weeks and weeks and was looked at by an independent shop and eventually a dealer and they both made incredulous comments about the giant speakers that sat in the back the entire time. One of my favorite "normal person encounters an audio freak" experiences...

 

[JohnBooty]

I'm simultaneously thrilled to hear your opinion and mortified at the thought of, "what if he hates it and we look like fools?"

So I ordered one of these things out of curiosity. About a day later I noticed they weigh 62 lbs a piece. I wonder whether Amazon sells weight lifters.

The cabinets are heavy but at the same time, almost perhaps suspiciously light given their dimensions. I wonder if adding damping or bracing might have some benefit at higher SPLs.

 

[JohnBooty]

they both made incredulous comments about the giant speakers that sat in the back the entire time. One of my favorite "normal person encounters an audio freak" experiences...

Haha. I was the "backup DJ" plan for a wedding with those too. Thankfully there was no issue with the actual DJ and I was not pressed into duty. Unlike me, these speakers were certainly up to the task.

I had a few scary moments with "normies" with these at outdoor parties. They get so loud without audible distortion that they are actually a bit dangerous. The kind of loud where you don't think it's "that loud"... until you stick your SPL meter in front of it and realize you're in the triple digits. I had that moment after I went inside the house and realized I could still hear the lyrics clearly... from inside the house... inside the windowless bathroom... with the door closed lol.

 

[Sonny1]

I'm simultaneously thrilled to hear your opinion and mortified at the thought of, "what if he hates it and we look like fools?"

The cabinets are heavy but at the same time, almost perhaps suspiciously light given their dimensions. I wonder if adding damping or bracing might have some benefit at higher SPLs.

I am curious as well but there is no shame in liking a speaker that doesn’t measure well if this one doesn’t measure well. I owned Cerwin Vega and big Klipsch speakers and large amps, when my music preference was far from audiophile approved and played them way too loud. It suited my purpose and I wouldn’t change a thing. BIC speakers have always fascinated me even though I have never heard them.
Either way, I’m confident Mr. Murphy will find a way to improve them. He has an amazing curiosity about these things and is very resourceful.

I just remembered I have a set of speakers in storage that he designed for me over a decade ago! I started a project to swap the caps on the tweeters for fancier “audiophile” caps and never finished the project. Need to dig them up and finish the work. Maybe ship one to Amir although there probably isn’t interest because they were a one off design using decent drivers from Morel and HiVi (those cool looking yellow Kevlar woofers). I have to finish the pioneer mods first. More unfinished speakers than finished ones around here!

 

[MZKM]

So I ordered one of these things out of curiosity. About a day later I noticed they weigh 62 lbs a piece. I wonder whether Amazon sells weight lifters.

I just read that Dr. Hsu helped design them, my interest has been piqued.

Many uncle is renovating his home he just bought and asked me about speakers, and he’s a very old school guy and wants the vintage monkey coffin style with huge woofers, and this BIC is what I recommended, though not sure if he will go with them.

 

[GelbeMusik]

Either way, I’m confident Mr. Murphy will find a way to improve them.

There is no reason to go into the extremes. The speakers in discussion, namely Pioneer BS22 are by far too small to serve as a monitor. I did the math, I think somewhere here. Even with a sub they cannot deliver decent high fidelity levels in a family room. All this tedious optimization is lost in "too quiet".

On the other hand, one doesn't have to take such a big one as the BIC. An eight inch bass/ lower midrange is enough. Complemented by a small, dedicated midrange and even smaller, cheap tweeter, a 25L box would serve nearly everbody perfectly. The preferred wide dispersion would ease the task considerably. (As compared to controlled and more narrow.)

Why is it so, that things get out of proportion, once a "real one" is the aim? Only as to exemplify on this, the "BMR" from Mr. Murphy sports a ScanSpeak bass, which cost is partly wasted. And it should be a special, proprietary ribbon, which cost is surely wasted. Without such bells and whistles, in the same from factor, it could be made really affordable and worthwhile at the same time. It would at least not be a waste of talent.

 

[Zvu]

^Who knows what is the pricing on those Scans if you buy large quantities. I was surprised to see the prices on Seas, it has nothing to do with prices in stores.

Oh, and i do like Scans power handling and Xmax there. Not much woofers with mathematical linear excursion of +/-6.5mm that have Le 0.4mH and can play cleanly higher up.