Advise - What my next upgrade should be?

[blazingice]

Hi everyone

I am new to the forum and have really enjoyed reading through so many reviews. This is all new to me, but have appreciated learning about all the technical aspects. The only problem is that now I feel I need to start upgrading some of my basic home system; ) I currently have:

Integrated Amp: NAD c326bee
Speakers: Wharfedale Diamond 9.1
Headphones: Sennheiser HD555 and Sony WH-1000MX
Streamer: Squeezebox duet
Music collection: CD collection (16/44), Amazon HD, Tidal (mostly 24/96)

I was considering getting a DAC, the choice being between Topping D50s or SMSL M500.

Three questions:
1. How would the above two DACs compare to the internal dac of Squeezebox duet? Any significant improvements? And even if they were to, would that still be audible in light of the rest of the gears?

2. I am perplexed about the need for an headphone amp. Most integrated amps provide headphone amp. Are they not good enough?

3. If you were to upgrade something from the above system in the range of $250-$400 where would you start from? DAC, headphone amp, headphones, speakers, etc?!

Thanks

 

[JeffS7444]

I’d consider room measurement and correction tools - very likely that is where will get real sonic value.

 

[SIY]

I’d consider room measurement and correction tools - very likely that is where will get real sonic value.

That for sure, and subwoofers.

Electronics would last. Well, second to last. Wires last.

 

[twsecrest]

Massdrop Sennheiser HD58X (150-Ohm) headphones.
https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-sennheiser-hd-58x-jubilee-headphones

Your NAD c326bee does not appear to come with it's own dedicated built in headphone amplifier, but instead uses the speaker amplifiers to also drive headphones.
The NAD's headphone jack could have been giving the 50-Ohm HD555 headphones bloated (louder, less detailed) bass.

 

[Wombat]

The NAD amp has 220ohm resistors in the headphone out line.

The Sennheiser are 50ohm impedance and the Sony 47ohm(driver unit ON)/16ohm(driver unit OFF). This is not a preferred impedance match. A HP amp with output impedance 5Ohm or less is more ideal.

Better impedance matching using one of the excellent low priced headphone amps may be worth considering.
I happily use headphones(250ohms) with an O2 HP amp only occasionally, so others with more experience could better advise further on amp/HP combination compatibility.

(I think the Sony figures are for cable connection. Of course for Bluetooth, impedance matching is not relevant).

 

[Blur]

Always best to upgrade speakers / headphones. That is the way to hear the biggest difference. The HD555 is pretty anemic sounding lacking in both low end punch and body.

What is your budget? Would something like the HE-400i interest you? I own a pair and have successfully recommended them to a few friends. They love them!

 

[Wombat]

Always best to upgrade speakers / headphones. That is the way to hear the biggest difference. The HD555 is pretty anemic sounding lacking in both low end punch and body.

What is your budget? Would something like the HE-400i interest you? I own a pair and have successfully recommended them to a few friends. They love them!

Those are 35 Ohm which still leaves the amplifier impedance match a possible issue.

FWIW https://www.amazon.com/HE400i-Full-size-Planar-Magnetic-Headphones/dp/B00MULH672. Seems like a very good deal.

 

[Blur]

Not really. It’s a damping issue for the bass. I mean no amp nor DAC, unless it has severe bass boost, will ever make those 555’s sound hi-end. I’ve owned them back in the day.

 

[Doodski]

The NAD amp has 220ohm resistors in the headphone out line.

The Sennheiser are 50ohm impedance and the Sony 47ohm(driver unit ON)/16ohm(driver unit OFF). This is not a preferred impedance match. A HP amp with output impedance 5Ohm or less is more ideal.

Better impedance matching using one of the excellent low priced headphone amps may be worth considering.
I happily use headphones(250ohms) with an O2 HP amp only occasionally, so others with more experience could better advise further on amp/HP combination compatibility.

(I think the Sony figures are for cable connection. Of course for Bluetooth, impedance matching is not relevant).

Download link for the NAD c326bee service manual. Page 17 has both the headphone jack and the amplifier schematic.
https://www.manualslib.com/download/1441478/Nad-C-326bee.html

 

[Blur]

You can try some basic mods on the 555 to change the sound signature a bit. Just YouTube it.

 

[JeffS7444]

The HD555 is pretty anemic sounding lacking in both low end punch and body.

Haven't tried those, but the ear cushions need to form a reasonably air tight seal else frequency response will be shot - when measuring IEMs or headphones with MiniDSP's EARS measurement device, it's really obvious when there's an air leak. I'm still very impressed by what's possible in headphone sound when DSP + measurement + cross-feed are involved. Bass? Oh yes.

 

[twsecrest]

The NAD amp has 220ohm resistors in the headphone out line.
The Sennheiser are 50ohm impedance and the Sony 47ohm(driver unit ON)/16ohm(driver unit OFF). This is not a preferred impedance match. A HP amp with output impedance 5Ohm or less is more ideal.
Better impedance matching using one of the excellent low priced headphone amps may be worth considering.
I happily use headphones(250ohms) with an O2 HP amp only occasionally, so others with more experience could better advise further on amp/HP combination compatibility.

The NAD c326bee's headphone jack has a 68-Ohm output impedance, not great, but there is worse.

 

[TimW]

Your speakers are definitly the limiting factor. Not necessarily because their horrible, but because your electronics are perfectly adequate. I think @JeffS7444 and @SIY gave the best advice so far. When it comes to listening to speakers in a room, the room plays a major role in the sound quality of the system. Usually the room is not ideal and physical or digital room correction can help make the system sound better. A subwoofer can be used to give the system deeper bass extension but it can also be used to give a more uniform bass response in a room. The best way to do this is to use multiple subs along with digital room correction. Also if you apply a high pass filter to the main speakers, sending all bass to the sub, they will sound clearer due to reduced distortion. This also makes things easier on your amplifier. Of course to do digital room correction you need to be able to measure what's going on in your room. But being able to measure your system's response in your room is very useful even if you aren't performing digital room correction. It can help you visualize what is heppening when you move your speakers around or when you apply physical room correction.

For you specifically I would recommend picking up a miniDSP umik-1 and downloading the freeware room equalization wizard (REW). This is all you really need to get started measuring your system. One thing I really like about your NAD C326BEE is that it has pre-out and main-in connections. This is perfect for integrating a digital signal processor with analog I/O like the miniDSP 2x4. The 2x4 has two inputs and four outputs, so you can use it to connect one or two subwoofers. This way you can apply a high-pass filter to your main speakers, send all bass to your sub(s), and apply some simple room correction to bass frequencies using REW. You should also adjust delay and phase of the sub outputs to get good integration with the mains. This is something that is more difficult to do without DSP and very difficult to do without the ability to measure your system.

You could spend $250-400 on a new DAC but it's unlikely to make an audible improvement. You could sell your speakers and use that money plus the $250-400 to get better speakers but I doubt you would get something demonstrably better. I think your best bang for the buck improvement will be had through the ability to measure your system, the addition of a subwoofer or two, and the DSP necessary to implement these things.

 

[Wombat]

Oops. After the 2200ohm, NAD put 100ohm in parallel with the 'phones. Better than many other amps in this regard.

 

[Wes]

what is your room like? any tmts.?

then there is the issue of which CD masterings you have; and how HD is Amazon HD...

besides speakers...

 

[Daverz]

You haven't described the room. Assuming a typical room, I'd get some acoustic panels for the front (wall behind the speakers) and side walls and spend some time experimenting with speaker and listening chair positions.

The Wharfdale's measure very well for their price. I think you'd have to spend a lot more (or go DIY) to get an appreciable improvement. You seem to have made good choices in your current gear.

The Duet DAC has respectable performance:

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/06/measurements-squeezebox-duet-receiver.html

If you do upgrade the DAC, I'd suggest replacing the Duet with a Raspberry Pi 3B+ running piCorePlayer to get the most out of a newer DAC.

 

[blazingice]

Your speakers are definitly the limiting factor. Not necessarily because their horrible, but because your electronics are perfectly adequate. I think @JeffS7444 and @SIY gave the best advice so far. When it comes to listening to speakers in a room, the room plays a major role in the sound quality of the system. Usually the room is not ideal and physical or digital room correction can help make the system sound better. A subwoofer can be used to give the system deeper bass extension but it can also be used to give a more uniform bass response in a room. The best way to do this is to use multiple subs along with digital room correction. Also if you apply a high pass filter to the main speakers, sending all bass to the sub, they will sound clearer due to reduced distortion. This also makes things easier on your amplifier. Of course to do digital room correction you need to be able to measure what's going on in your room. But being able to measure your system's response in your room is very useful even if you aren't performing digital room correction. It can help you visualize what is heppening when you move your speakers around or when you apply physical room correction.

For you specifically I would recommend picking up a miniDSP umik-1 and downloading the freeware room equalization wizard (REW). This is all you really need to get started measuring your system. One thing I really like about your NAD C326BEE is that it has pre-out and main-in connections. This is perfect for integrating a digital signal processor with analog I/O like the miniDSP 2x4. The 2x4 has two inputs and four outputs, so you can use it to connect one or two subwoofers. This way you can apply a high-pass filter to your main speakers, send all bass to your sub(s), and apply some simple room correction to bass frequencies using REW. You should also adjust delay and phase of the sub outputs to get good integration with the mains. This is something that is more difficult to do without DSP and very difficult to do without the ability to measure your system.

You could spend $250-400 on a new DAC but it's unlikely to make an audible improvement. You could sell your speakers and use that money plus the $250-400 to get better speakers but I doubt you would get something demonstrably better. I think your best bang for the buck improvement will be had through the ability to measure your system, the addition of a subwoofer or two, and the DSP necessary to implement these things.

Thanks everyone for their advice. I have to be honest, evaluating the room size and dynamic was not in my list. This has opened up a new horizon to explore. I attach three pictures that show the room that I am using. This is also used as a home cinema, hence the need to keep one side of the wall clear. After reading a bit more on the acustic panels I am not sure where exactly to put them in my room, as there isn't enough space left. The bookcases at the back will help. I have been thinking to do something about he door behind one of the speakers, as that is not being used anymore! I can also put a panel on the chimney breast facing the speakers. Not sure if these panels have to reflect or absorb sound! Anything else that I should consider in terms of 'mechanical' solutions?

I had given some thoughts to using a subwoofer, however having read mixed opinions about potential syncing problems I had given up. However the recommendation to use a miniDSP (which I am learning about it for the first time) seems to address this. Two questions:

1. Considering the size and the dynamic of the room, can you please recommend an appropriate subwoofer? I am split between two cheapish ones or one expensive one. Ideally would not want to go above the $500 in total.

2. I am presuming miniDSP needs to be connected between the audio source/DAC and the integrated amp:

Model 1
Source/DAC==> miniDSP==>Integrated Amp==>Speakers, with the subwoofer being connected directly to the miniDSP

Is this correct? Or is it linked after the Intergrated Amp?

Model 2
Source/DAC==>Integrated Amp==>miniDSP==>Speakers & Subwoofer

If model 1 is the case would any corrections or high pass filter affect the sound of the headphones if I was to continue to use the existing amplifier? If I was to get a separate headphone amp, this I presume would need to be connected directly with an external DAC, not from the "tape out" of the amp, as I was initially thinking of doing?

 

[Doodski]

If me I would flip the room around. Put the speakers on each side where the bookshelves are now.

 

[blazingice]

If me I would flip the room around. Put the speakers on each side where the bookshelves are now.

Two reasons why it is like that: Bigger space for the projector. Currently the projector fills the entire wall, without needing to add a projector screen. Secondly, I am avoiding on purpose to put any speakers close to a shared wall with neighbours.

 

[Doodski]

Two reasons why it is like that: Bigger space for the projector. Currently the projector fills the entire wall, without needing to add a projector screen. Secondly, I am avoiding on purpose to put any speakers close to a shared wall with neighbours.

ahhh... makes sense