Advice to improve my current system (moved to amazon music hd service)

[Masterkun]

If you are satisfied with the sound, I’d say mission accomplished. I don’t think the cables make any difference, so don’t waste your money there.

Not so sure, because I can't play 24 bit /192khz file (maximum seems to be 24 bit / 96khz)
Could it be the cable? Indeed, it's just a basic Belkin toslink cable ....

 

[Masterkun]

I believe the limit is not the cable brand, but the technology. TOSLINK has a limit of 24/96k.

I’d question if it really is audible 24/96 vs 24/192, but that is a whole other discussion.

I confirm that I'm probably not able to hear the difference
However, it's not possible to limit the quality with BluOS stuff (automatically chooses the best one)...
I only recognize at 100% compressed vs lossless. on some tracks I'm able to catch some feelings of difference between 24/48 and 24/96 but it's only on a few tracks and it's not so obvious to my ears.

so my real problem, if it's a hiRes 24/192 file, I just can't read it (my DAC says no signal)... not dramatic because there are not so many in Amazon music HD, and most HR are 24/44 or 24/48 and some 24/96 (very rare to find a 24/192 in Amazon Catalog)

but if they continue, at the end, I will not be able to read anything with my current stack :-(

I ordered a digital coax 75 ohm cable. I hope that it will work

 

[valerianf]

As I subscribed an Amazon music HD trial I want to share my experience.
My first goal was to get the best sound from Amazon music HD using my existing equipment.
As my AVR a Yamaha RX-A700 is old, I cannot get any bitrate reading.
Also I made long listening session.
1) Amazon music Roku application on Roku Ultra.
There is no HD indication until I tested a trick to select a HD file with my Android tablet and plays it back on Roku (it then appears in HD).
The sound is dull, no interest compare to Spotify free or normal Amazon music

2) More complicated scheme.
My Android tablet is using Amazon music HD app and then casted to my Vizio F1 tv that send back the sound to the AVR using ARC or Optical fiber.
This Vizio TV is encoding the sound in DD before sending it.
No difference between the sound via ARC or optical fiber.

Then miracle: soundstage is far better, with detailed stereo.
I can listen a difference between the non HD and HD albums.
In short: since I live in the US it is the first time that I enjoy listening streaming music (I never tried Qobuz or Tidal that are too expensive).

Next step will be to test the new Amazon fire Tv stick that has been announced this week.
The hold ones are not able to send high bit rates to the hdmi (it is listed on Amazon music web site).
I hope that the new ones are.

 

[DuxServit]

Not so sure, because I can't play 24 bit /192khz file (maximum seems to be 24 bit / 96khz)
Could it be the cable? Indeed, it's just a basic Belkin toslink cable ....

I have AmazonHD (and Roon) on a 2014 MacBookPro, feeding into the Topping E30. Works just fine.

Now if only Roon could integrate direct AmazonHD, or Jeff Bezos just acquire Roon

 

[Masterkun]

I have AmazonHD (and Roon) on a 2014 MacBookPro, feeding into the Topping E30. Works just fine.

Now if only Roon could integrate direct AmazonHD, or Jeff Bezos just acquire Roon

I guess that you connected your MBP with a USB cable?

I tried to connect a 2014 MBP as well (my previous one) with an old mini toslink cable but I also didn't achieve to reach 192 khz so I guess it's a cable issue and an issue on the Cambridge side and unfortunately, I only have old toslink cables at home to make the test. Hoping that the coax will work

 

[RayDunzl]

Could it be the cable? Indeed, it's just a basic Belkin toslink cable ....

Toslink limitation is in the capability of the transmitter and receiver.

Consider:

What frequency can Toslink cable carry?

First Estimate.

Connect a Toslink cable to a Toslink transmitter.

Observe the color of the light that exits the cable. My photorecepters see "Red".

Look up the frequency of Red light: around 430 Terrahertz

I doubt the plastic cable at short range would have a problem with many gigabits/second.

The problems would come with attenuation and dispersion at longer distances.

---

https://www.eenewsautomotive.com/ne...rnet-over-plastic-fibre-start-soon-kdpof-says

 

[DuxServit]

I guess that you connected your MBP with a USB cable?

I tried to connect a 2014 MBP as well (my previous one) with an old mini toslink cable but I also didn't achieve to reach 192 khz so I guess it's a cable issue and an issue on the Cambridge side and unfortunately, I only have old toslink cables at home to make the test. Hoping that the coax will work

Yes, just plain old USB cable.

 

[Webninja]

Toslink limitation is in the capability of the transmitter and receiver.

@RayDunzl is correct, I had problems in the past with Toslink, then confirmed my issues without checking scientific facts. I always thought the technology was older and had limits. Must have been one of my devices that had the limit.

Doesn’t help the OP though. I still doubt it’s the cable itself.

 

[Masterkun]

I ordered a QED coaxial cable and will get it tomorrow so I'll be able to confirm
Hope that's not the Cambridge 740C inside capability (in theory not, because it is said as supporting 192khz digital input)... but indeed maybe something on the Toslink chain (maybe the cable, the transmitter, or the receiver)
but if it just works with Coaxial, honestly, I don't care
It should be probably ok as Cambridge support site says that to be able to support 192Khz, you need coaxial cable. (and CXA60 and 80 have the same DAC as my 740C)
https://techsupport.cambridgeaudio....es-directly-to-the-CXA60-or-CXA80-amplifiers-


by the way the stereophony issue I felt, is it linked by the fact that the blue sound node 2i has only one DAC (instead of a pair on the cambridge)?
by stereophony issue, I mean that the voice were not perfectly "in the middle" and slightly on the right with the node 2i (which was disturbing)

 

[AnalogSteph]

by the way the stereophony issue I felt, is it linked by the fact that the blue sound node 2i has only one DAC (instead of a pair on the cambridge)?
by stereophony issue, I mean that the voice were not perfectly "in the middle" and slightly on the right with the node 2i (which was disturbing)

DACs generally have excellent channel balance. The most common causes for balance issues are speaker position / room acoustics or volume pot channel tracking (especially towards the low end).

 

[Chromatischism]

Unfortunately, Google Chromecast also does not support Amazon Music streaming in HD/UHD quality. Moreover, my understanding Amazon uses AAC codec insted of MP3 when streaming to Chromecast devices, which I find inferior in sound quality. As usual, your mileage may vary, of course. It's a total mess and Amazon apparently has no intention or plans to fix it.

What if streamed directly via UPNP, say to a Denon AVR?

 

[Bamyasi]

What if streamed directly via UPNP, say to a Denon AVR?

Hmm, not sure I understand your question. Amazon app does not support UPnP streaming while none of the UPnP apps I am aware of supports Amazon Music HD.

 

[Chromatischism]

Hmm, not sure I understand your question. Amazon app does not support UPnP streaming while none of the UPnP apps I am aware of supports Amazon Music HD.

A modern AVR like Denon will accept any audio sent via UPNP. So, all you need is an app or interface that can access Amazon Music and use UPNP. HEOS does, I wonder if there are others.

But my question was about the quality of the stream. You mentioned it was lower over Chromecast, so I'm wondering about other methods.

 

[Bamyasi]

A modern AVR like Denon will accept any audio sent via UPNP. So, all you need is an app or interface that can access Amazon Music and use UPNP. HEOS does, I wonder if there are others.

But my question was about the quality of the stream. You mentioned it was lower over Chromecast, so I'm wondering about other methods.

I ended up connecting my DAC with a long enough USB cable directly to my Amazon HD 8 tablet. It works for me but my room is relatively small and I have no kids. Could be less convenient configuration for others.

I actually cannot tell the difference in sound quality between direct USB connection and when streaming using Alexa Cast from the app on the same tablet (Alexa Cast seems to use MP3). On the contrast, casting from the same app to the CCA connected via Toslink to the same DAC occasionally sounds not as transparent. Could be just imagining this, since I never tried any blind testing.

 

[Masterkun]

I connected all the stuff with the QED Coaxial and 192khz works!
I had WOW effect from my wife and myself ... but not only at 192khz... but at every range!
(even at 24 bit / 44.1 khz, currently listening to -M- French singer, with his 2019 concert )

I hardly imagined that swapping the cable could improve so much the experience (maybe also the coax output reported as better than the toslink on the node 2i)... I got much more precision in the voices and concert background details, and a clear but present soundstage.

I will perform some tests next weekend to see if now I'm more able now with all my stack to distinguish between CD and HR resolution.

 

[Jimbob54]

I believe the limit is not the cable brand, but the technology. TOSLINK has a limit of 24/96k.

I’d question if it really is audible 24/96 vs 24/192, but that is a whole other discussion.

It most certainly does not- Toslink can go 192 and over I think. However, I believe on some older DACs (and sources)- the toslink may have been limited to 24/96

EDIT- Ray already set the record straight

 

[andreasmaaan]

I would look more in the direction of your room, speaker setup, and acoustic treatment. You're unlikely to achieve more than incremental audible improvement through changes in your digital source or electronics (if that).

On the other hand, optimising speaker placement, adding acoustic treatment and (if possible/necessary) re-configuring your room are likely to provide substantial audible improvements.

 

[Masterkun]

It most certainly does not- Toslink can go 192 and over I think. However, I believe on some older DACs (and sources)- the toslink may have been limited to 24/96

EDIT- Ray already set the record straight

I agree with you, the limitation is probably on the cambridge 740C side

I would look more in the direction of your room, speaker setup, and acoustic treatment. You're unlikely to achieve more than incremental audible improvement through changes in your digital source or electronics (if that).

On the other hand, optimising speaker placement, adding acoustic treatment and (if possible/necessary) re-configuring your room are likely to provide substantial audible improvements.

I tested again, maybe my statement of problem of stereophony is exaggerated, but indeed a choice of "voice treatment" is different on the node 2i: voice is more mixed with background instruments and that made me feel that the voices were less in the middle. (difficult to explain)

I don't know what is more neutraI but I still prefer the Cambridge old DAC rendering. (which has by the way a better SNR in Audioscience review)
Maybe I could even improve with a modern DAC but I already spent some money recently (node 2i and the cables), so I will see later (Christmas?)

 

[AnalogSteph]

I tested again, maybe my statement of problem of stereophony is exaggerated, but indeed a choice of "voice treatment" is different on the node 2i: voice is more mixed with background instruments and that made me feel that the voices were less in the middle. (difficult to explain)

Sounds like a bad ground connection perhaps?

This is something I'd want to investigate via RMAA loopback testing if at all possible.

 

[Poultrygeist]

I have a couple of CCA's that I used with DAC's but they have been replaced by a Node 2i which has superior SQ. I stream Amazon HD from the Node 2i to a Mimby and a Topping DX3 Pro DAC. The basic sound is CD quality but the high rez is audible better. The Node 2i is so versatile and I'm able to feed it's streaming to three separate systems.