Advice to effect amp with Denon AVR4500

[MartinBruun]

Hi Forum
I am planning to upgrade my Fronts with better Dali speakers.

Option A:

• Go for EpiKORE 7(I have an agreement to have a session in the store week 11)
• Add an effect stereo AMP

16k pound

Option B:

• Go for EpiCON 6
• Add surround processor
• Add a surround AMP
• What to do for my Airplay 2 lossless streaming?

10K Pound (without cost for streaming)

I hope you will come with your advice and/or experience.
Br
Martin

What I have now:
Integrated AMP - Denon AVR4500
Fronts - Rubicon 6
Sub - DB4s
Center - B&W HTM72
Rears - Dali Oberon Onwall

 

[voodooless]

What is an “effect amp”?

For £ 16k, I’m sure you can get much better speakers.

 

[Svend P]

Erin reviews and measures more speakers than ASR, so he is a great source for information

I would consider these or some of the bigger KEF models. Paying more for speakers, you reach diminishing returns really fast.

MoFi SourcePoint 888 Tower Speaker Review

MoFi SourcePoint 888 Tower Speaker

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

What is an “effect amp”?

Power amplifier. It's danglish

 

[voodooless]

Power amplifier. It's danglish

I would probably consider an upgraded AVR with DIRAC ART. It will be more of an upgrade than new speakers. I would also do something about that center channel… And if the current system gets loud enough, you don’t need to a power amp.

 

[MartinBruun]

What is an “effect amp”?

For £ 16k, I’m sure you can get much better speakers.

haha sorry, term used in DK. I mean 2 channel Amp. (but you knew that, didn´t you? )
The 16k is incl. the amp. The speakers will be around 14k. - which are you thinking of, will match? I am generally not into B&W, but perhaps Audiovector R3? or?

 

[MartinBruun]

Erin reviews and measures more speakers than ASR, so he is a great source for information

I would consider these or some of the bigger KEF models. Paying more for speakers, you reach diminishing returns really fast.

MoFi SourcePoint 888 Tower Speaker Review

MoFi SourcePoint 888 Tower Speaker

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

Power amplifier. It's danglish

Hi Svend,
As I have these old Rubicons now, I would for sure get quite some improvement by simply going to Epicon 6 - buuuut I must here the Epikore 7´s
If we consider the Danish market, can you recommend other speakers than KEF (available in stores)?

 

[MartinBruun]

I would probably consider an upgraded AVR with DIRAC ART. It will be more of an upgrade than new speakers. I would also do something about that center channel… And if the current system gets loud enough, you don’t need to a power amp.

I have used Audyssey (license - laptop) and I have now started on using the Evo A1 AcoustiX for calibration. This is the reason why I have dropped replacing my AVR with new model for getting the Dirac.
Explanation being I wanted an extra sub (which I needed Dirac for) but after new calibration, I am satisfied with my bass/low freq.)

It does get loud enough.
Excuse if my statement is wrong, but I understand that an amp able to handle more current without being integrated amp, will improve speaker performance.

 

[voodooless]

which are you thinking of, will match?

I think @Svend P already gave some excellent suggestions but you seem to want something domestic? That narrows the choices significantly!

Maybe check out Buchardt Audio?

 

[voodooless]

It does get loud enough.
Excuse if my statement is wrong, but I understand that an amp able to handle more current without being integrated amp, will improve speaker performance.

Only if the amp has trouble delivering the loudest passages. Only a better speaker will give you better speaker performance

 

[MartinBruun]

I think @Svend P already gave some excellent suggestions but you seem to want something domestic? That narrows the choices significantly!

Maybe check out Buchardt Audio?

yeah, you are correct - at least bought domestic. It seems Buchardt doesn´t have any floor standing speakers (passive).

 

[MartinBruun]

Only if the amp has trouble delivering the loudest passages. Only a better speaker will give you better speaker performance

I like that phrase Is it a myth that you can have the loud/high SPL but not the control of speaker?
I have not been able to understand the technic behind this saying, but perhaps comparing it a bit like in a car where the original radio will cause the speakers to "fumble" tuning up the volume to much. (sorry for the wording Fumble - couldn´t find the proper word) haha

 

[voodooless]

yeah, you are correct - at least bought domestic

I’m pretty sure you can buy KEF & MoFi in Denmark. Hifi Klubben sells them in the Netherlands. They are a Danish brand, so likely they sell it domestically as well.

perhaps comparing it a bit like in a car where the original radio will cause the speakers to "fumble" tuning up the volume to much. (sorry for the wording Fumble - couldn´t find the proper word)

Yes, this is what I mean with not loud enough. The amps will clip and it doesn’t sound very nice anymore. That’s where the amp audibly starts lacking power. If you don’t have that at home, you’re probably fine.

 

[Svend P]

Audiovector R3

Those are awful. Look at the measurements here

Audiovector R 3 Arreté loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system, a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone, and an Earthworks microphone preamplifier to measure the quasi-anechoic frequency- and time-domain behavior of one of the Audiovector R 3 Arretés—serial number 202084—in the farfield. I used an Earthworks...

www.stereophile.com

If it has to be floorstanders, it is somewhat limited. I would go for Revel (I have the F208 myself) or Kef.

If you go active standmounts, you will have a lot of good choices. Anything from Genelec, Neuman or D&D 8C.

Just don't believe the marketing that more expensive is always better.

 

[MartinBruun]

Those are awful. Look at the measurements here

Audiovector R 3 Arreté loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system, a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone, and an Earthworks microphone preamplifier to measure the quasi-anechoic frequency- and time-domain behavior of one of the Audiovector R 3 Arretés—serial number 202084—in the farfield. I used an Earthworks...

www.stereophile.com

If it has to be floorstanders, it is somewhat limited. I would go for Revel (I have the F208 myself) or Kef.

If you go active standmounts, you will have a lot of good choices. Anything from Genelec, Neuman or D&D 8C.

Just don't believe the marketing that more expensive is always better.

Yes, I do acknowledge that price isn´t proportional with quality.

I did hear MOFI in Hifi klubben and it was - to me - an extreme bad sounding speaker. (my preference is not for the mechanic sound as B&W or grey/muddy as MOFI)
At least that is what I have experienced so far

I will for sure visit Hifiklubben and Lydspecialisten a couple of more times before I decide.

 

[Svend P]

Yes, I do acknowledge that price isn´t proportional with quality.

I did hear MOFI in Hifi klubben and it was - to me - an extreme bad sounding speaker. (my preference is not for the mechanic sound as B&W or grey/muddy as MOFI)
At least that is what I have experienced so far

I will for sure visit Hifiklubben and Lydspecialisten a couple of more times before I decide.

You should read this. None of your experiences have anything to do with the speakers.

Why evaluating the sound of a single speaker is essential

Note from staff: this content was move from another thread for better overall access and organization… A forum member has just alerted me to this discussion, and my name is being circulated, so I have decided to add some clarification. The topic of sound quality is of fundamental importance...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[MartinBruun]

I’m pretty sure you can buy KEF & MoFi in Denmark. Hifi Klubben sells them in the Netherlands. They are a Danish brand, so likely they sell it domestically as well.


Yes, this is what I mean with not loud enough. The amps will clip and it doesn’t sound very nice anymore. That’s where the amp audibly starts lacking power. If you don’t have that at home, you’re probably fine.

I have tried using AI to find speakers comperable with Epikore 7.

What defines the DALI Epikore 7 (reference point)​

Before comparing, here’s what makes the Epikore 7 special:

• Hybrid tweeter module (soft dome + ribbon)
• Fast, open midrange with low coloration
• Controlled, deep bass (not overblown)
• Wide dispersion and room‑filling soundstage
• Refined rather than aggressive presentation

So the speakers below aim to match that balance.

This is what it listed as top 3 - interesting!

• They have this speaker in a nearby city to where I live. And god damn they are beautiful... almost doesn't matter how they sound Audiovector A6 Arreté
• It also finds Sonus Faber Olympic Nova III / V but unfortunately this model is too deep for the room as it is entered close to the right front speaker.
• And this Focal Focal Sopra No. 2 But I that design is enough for me to not wanting it.

 

[MartinBruun]

You should read this. None of your experiences have anything to do with the speakers.

Why evaluating the sound of a single speaker is essential

Note from staff: this content was move from another thread for better overall access and organization… A forum member has just alerted me to this discussion, and my name is being circulated, so I have decided to add some clarification. The topic of sound quality is of fundamental importance...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Interesting statement. I will have a read once I have some more time for the link.

• Can you ellaborate on your statement? Why is listening to the same song in similar surroundings (without calibration thought) not be used to compare "the nature" of the speakers sound?
• Don´t you agree that B&W are more mechanic/stiff where Dali are more soft/warm?

 

[Svend P]

Interesting statement. I will have a read once I have some more time for the link.

• Can you ellaborate on your statement? Why is listening to the same song in similar surroundings (without calibration thought) not be used to compare "the nature" of the speakers sound?
• Don´t you agree that B&W are more mechanic/stiff where Dali are more soft/warm?

Because your impressions are sighted and not level matched and they all sound like the usual audiophile nonsense. How does grey sound and where can it be seen in the measurements?

 

[Svend P]

Erin has made a whole series of videos explaining speaker measurements, which could be educational. If you want the best sound, you have to get something that measures good.

 

[MartinBruun]

Erin has made a whole series of videos explaining speaker measurements, which could be educational. If you want the best sound, you have to get something that measures good.

Thank you Svend, I will give it a watch this evening! What do you think of the comparison AI made?