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Advice requested for upgrading/replacing small speakers

tastewar

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In my (shared with spouse) bedroom, we have a very modest stereo system. Used to be a Pioneer compact CD/Radio (tape?? can't remember) system with separate speakers. They sit on a dresser, and I build a shelf sort of around them that limits the space available for replacements to less than 8" high and less than 6" wide. I am having a hard time finding anything that size in the speaker reviews here. Currently, the speakers are connected to a TP22 amp, fed by a Raspberry Pi running PiCorePlayer which plays music from my library and streams from Spotify.

I don't think the speakers are very good. I have a Klipsch home theater system in a box kind of thing (from Costco) for my home theater, and it came with 4 small speakers that would it the bill, but they don't seem to be available separately. Is anyone aware of something good in this size? Or should I replace the driver in them? Looks like it's about a 3" full range driver. Anyone know of a good driver from Parts Express that I could pop in there? The speaker cabinets are not awful looking and sort of match the rest of the dresser/shelf. Here is a pic:
IMG_0758.jpeg
 

Midwest Blade

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In all honesty, unless these speakers are broken or do not really meet your listening needs, it hardly seems worth the effort to find a new replacement driver. There are plenty of excellent bookshelf speakers on the market, but if the size and appearance are the issue it may be easier to just live with them.
 
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tastewar

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There's definitely no shortage of bookshelf speakers, but I'm having trouble finding something in an equivalent size. I would be happy to replace them with better speakers if I could find them. And of course I could live with them, that's what I've been doing for years, but if spending $60 on a pair of drivers from PartsExpress would improve the sound, then it would be worth my effort, because I'd learn something from the process. I'm just wondering if anyone here has actual experience with something similar and could recommend something specific.

Half tempted to order a pair of these: https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-DW3-1053SC-3-Full-Range-Driver-264-880 and try them out, if nobody can point me to a recommended pre-build speaker, or could tell me that those Dayton's are crap.

If anyone has done anything similar, is it likely that it's just replacing the driver (and making it fit)? Given it's a full range driver, there'd be no crossover or other electronics to consider, right?
 

Midwest Blade

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You may want to checkout Madison, they sell a variety of drivers that could work. Good luck with the project.
 
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tastewar

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Thanks for the hint -- there are indeed about a dozen there. But all that does is give me more possibilities to choose from without much to base the decision on other than price :)
 

hex168

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Odds are that the Pioneer 3" is reasonably competent and you won't see much improvement changing to another 3" driver. If you try it, you will likely learn stuff, which might be a good enough motivation to do it anyway.

What's your budget for a replacement speaker?
 

RobL

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Depending how loud you play them, iLoud Micro’s are very small, sound great and are reasonably priced. You might even be able to hunt them down second hand.
 

Spkrdctr

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A full range 3 inch speaker is a tough nut to crack. I hope you find something you like! My recommendation is to announce to the wife that you decided it is time for a change and buy slightly bigger 2 way bookshelf speakers and place them wherever you want. After all, I know you run the house...right? :)
 
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tastewar

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Thanks, all. I definitely should have mentioned a budgetary target. It would probably be <$200 for new speakers, and <$100 for drivers. Maybe it's worth pulling out the Pioneer drivers just to have a look. They are not total crap, but it does seem to me that the ones from the Klipsch 5.1 HT system are significantly better, and 2-way. This is the system in question:


So for <$300 I could have 2 pairs of them, but they don't seem to sell those speakers by themselves. Not saying they're the best speakers, but they would I believe be an improvement. But if the general consensus is that I'm not going to notice much if any difference with a substitute 3" driver, well, <sigh>.

And yes, of course I make all the "important" house decisions. What kind of question is that?!

The Genelec and Vanatoo are intriguing, and a reminder that I should have given a $$ target. Sorry about that.

I have lots of Apple gear, but have no "home assistant" devices in the house. I also have about half a dozen systems in the house, each of which has some form of, well, in my case it goes all the way back to the original SlimP3 from SlimDevices, but a couple of Logitech variants that came out of that, and more RasPi's that emulate those devices, and am happy with the functionality I have there, so not looking for an overhaul on that front.

Hmm.......

Maybe eBay has what I (think I) want: http://www.ebay.com/itm/385155251105

Anyone (else) have experience with those speakers and have an opinion? In the end, all that matters is that I (and my "roommate") am/are happy with them, and at $115 delivered for a pair, that doesn't seem bad.

(heh -- I *do* see that none of the Klipsch in the review index are recommended...)
 

DanielT

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But wait now, step by step.

If I understood correctly, your budget is: <$300 and you want for this money to get the best sound that money can give, or? And we're talking two-channel stereo sound?

Your prerequisites are that the speakers must not take up more space than:" less than 8" high and less than 6" wide"

What you have today is:
"TP22 amp, fed by a Raspberry Pi running PiCorePlayer which plays music from my library and streams from Spotify" plus those speakers in the picture in your first post. Is it true?

Are you willing to change everything in your sound system as long as the new speakers fit in size ,your budget and you can continue with Spotify?

Can you fit a subwoofer in the room?

Does appearance matter? Any other wishes, remote control?

New HiFi stuff or can you imagine used?

Can you place speakers on the wall? If so, maybe these:

Amir:
"Objective measurements don't fully support my highest honors, but my listening test results do. So it is my pleasure to give a strong recommendation to Ikea SYMFONISK picture frame speaker by Sonos."

 
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tastewar

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Wow. Thanks. Current setup is correct. My thinking is to replace/upgrade the speakers for now. The amp could easily come next, at some future time. But I am sticking with the RasPi for the foreseeable future. I expect someday I might upgrade it with a better DAC. But focused on speakers for now. Only interested in stereo in this room. Not sure about a subwoofer. Certainly, The Klipsch's in the HT setup do have a subwoofer, so my opinion of their sound could be colored by that. The bedroom needs only modest volume. Not interested in wall-hanging speakers. Appearance does matter some. Do not need remote control. Most everything plays thru Spotify or the SlimServer/LMS, so that handles most of the control of both musical selection, and volume. I just leave the amp at the highest volume I would want, and attenuate using app volume control.

I can imagine used. The budget, such that it is, was not 200+100 but 200 or 100. I would be willing to spend up to $200 for new speakers, OR up to $100 if I were replacing the drivers in the speakers myself.

Thanks again for your interest.
 

DanielT

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Wow. Thanks. Current setup is correct. My thinking is to replace/upgrade the speakers for now. The amp could easily come next, at some future time. But I am sticking with the RasPi for the foreseeable future. I expect someday I might upgrade it with a better DAC. But focused on speakers for now. Only interested in stereo in this room. Not sure about a subwoofer. Certainly, The Klipsch's in the HT setup do have a subwoofer, so my opinion of their sound could be colored by that. The bedroom needs only modest volume. Not interested in wall-hanging speakers. Appearance does matter some. Do not need remote control. Most everything plays thru Spotify or the SlimServer/LMS, so that handles most of the control of both musical selection, and volume. I just leave the amp at the highest volume I would want, and attenuate using app volume control.

I can imagine used. The budget, such that it is, was not 200+100 but 200 or 100. I would be willing to spend up to $200 for new speakers, OR up to $100 if I were replacing the drivers in the speakers myself.

Thanks again for your interest.
This is what I would do if I were you. Something I have, to a certain extent, actually tested. Some larger speakers will not accommodate you, we can state that, and exclude larger speakers than the ones you have now.

In the bedroom, suggestion:
-Small, mini speakers
-Subwoofer
-DSP or a active crossover

Such small speakers, that you have, cannot cope with bass. If you push them too much, you create audible distortion and it sounds bad. Really bad. Even at lower volume. It's just the nature of things, the laws of physics. You need to cut off the low frequencies for the speakers and let one or more subwoofers, bass modules take care of the lower frequencies. The subwoofer needs to be cut off for the higher frequencies. LP-HP filter is needed, works like this, purely theoretically:
Screenshot_2022-10-28_082642.jpg


Keep your small speakers or see if you can mount these tc9s in them. If it doesn't work like that, carve together a couple of small boxes. If you have the opportunity to do so:
"Taking into account the high technical performance and very low cost, TC9FD18-08, in my opinion, is just incredible speaker!"


tc9-$20 each:


Two tc9 elements and materials for a DIY speaker around $50 -$65.

So lets say $250 left.

A DSP solution. Then you have the possibility to use its crossover, plus that EQ (which can absolutely be needed for subwoofers to get a sensible FR but that might come at a later stage)

Here's a good budget DSP:


If that DSP fits with Raspberry Pi I don't know (maybe someone else can help you answer that question?) I don't know if you want to mess with different settings in the digital world? If not then this is a good budget solution,, it usually costs around $130-$150:


It's worth it, to get a filter solution. Then you plug it in and add test different crossover settings around 80-100 Hz. Now you have about $100 left to buy a used subwoofer. So once you've done that, plug all the stuff together.You plug into the input of the X 223, then from it out to the active subwoofer and to the TP22 (such a small amp works better if it doesn't have to deal with the lowest frequencies, so extra plus there with this solution)

With some reservations, it will not be optimal. Such small speaker elements, small speakers with 3 inch elements do not really do very well with a crossover as low as 80 Hz, but it will be much better than what you have now. I am attaching some pictures of the active crossover so you can see the inputs and outputs.Even if you buy an active subwoofer that has a built-in LP filter, you can still plug it in with the solution I presented. See attached picture, my test stuff, test rig with X 223 plus sub. I bought that subwoofer dirt cheap, a Yamaha YST 90. I can put it down and squeeze it under my bed so it's not visible in the bedroom.:)

EQ to get a good FR is something that you should definitely think about, at least for subwoofers. But it might be overkill for you at the moment, for you bedroom solution (then you also need a measuring microphone)? Then time delay speakers subwoofer, then ... there's a lot you can do, if you feel like it.:)
 

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DanielT

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If you like to keep tinkering, given that you have Raspberry Pi , then many possibilities open up with this! ::)

 

Colonel7

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If you haven’t already, Start a thread on the Tech Talk board at Parts Express. Lots of serious DIYers who build all types of projects, and there are a # of 3 inch full range projects IIRC. TC9FD is nice but has no low end. Here’s a couple I can think of that May fit in your box size. I have not heard them but there are a lot of builds for Bob’s designs that cost around $45 per side


A coaxial https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/1426474-cx120-8-easy-build

More on the low end and just half the box. https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/portable-and-tabletop-speakers/sprite
 

DanielT

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If you haven’t already, Start a thread on the Tech Talk board at Parts Express. Lots of serious DIYers who build all types of projects, and there are a # of 3 inch full range projects IIRC. TC9FD is nice but has no low end. Here’s a couple I can think of that May fit in your box size. I have not heard them but there are a lot of builds for Bob’s designs that cost around $45 per side


A coaxial https://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/1426474-cx120-8-easy-build

More on the low end and just half the box. https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/portable-and-tabletop-speakers/sprite
Nop that's right, it won't be completely optimal with tc9 + sub, even if you tried to sett the crossover a little above 100 Hz.

If there are other full-range drivers, broadband, coax that fit in terms of size and have a good or decent FR (from 80 Hz and up), reasonably low distortion and low price, then of course you should choose such an element/driver. If there is such a driver I would also be interested. But my guess is that one or a few of the criteria I mentioned need to be given up or at least compromised with.

By the way, good tips from your side: "Tech Talk board at Parts Express" :)
 
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tastewar

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Wow. Thanks, DanielT and Colonel7 -- you've given me a lot to digest here!
 
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tastewar

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My thinking is evolving. I hope it's clear that I sincerely appreciate all your thoughts expressed here, and hope you will bear with me, but understand if it's too frustrating to work with someone not immediately willing to take the good advice you've already provided.

I am finding space in my heard (and my room) for perhaps a small subwoofer. Still want to keep this system relatively simple though. Please do tell me if this idea is foolish; I am already having trouble with finding the first piece to the puzzle, so that's probably a bad sign.
  1. buy a pre-made small (6"?) subwoofer cabinet. All I am finding is stuff for cars.
  2. buy an appropriate 6" speaker
  3. run the speaker cables (L and R) to the subwoofer
  4. put all the electronics in there -- my hope is that this can be simple passive crossover
  5. run speaker cables from the crossovers to the little speakers
If this were possible, I might well leave the existing little speakers for now. I also see there is concern about driving anything much bigger with the TP22. Would the Fosi Audio TB10D be more capable? I have done plenty of woodworking in my life, and certainly *could* make an enclosure from plans. It's just not where I would prefer to expend my limited energy. I am more interested in the electronics side. Given the box (with sufficient space) I am sure I could add on appropriate terminals and wire up crossovers, etc.

Again, thanks to anyone who has the patience to iterate through this with me.
 
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