Advice on new setup: 2000€ budget looking for detailed and great soundstage

[Sibarita]

Good morning everyone,

I would like to ask for your recommendation as I would like to buy a setup to listen to music, mainly electronic, pop, jazz... in digital format. I have a budget of around 2000€ and am quite clear on the type of sound preferences I want to find.

I am looking for a 2.0 system that generates a lot of amplitude, that is clear, concise, that allows you to speak and be heard, with a great soundstage. I have achieved this in a friend's house who has a Kappa Infinity 8 and a Rottel amp, but unlike me he has a lot more space. I have a 13m2 room and a listening distance of only 3 metres in a block of flats. My enthusiast friend tells me that the Kappa's EMIT tweeter and the spaciousness of his room are partly responsible for this scene.

I was thinking of getting:

• Dali Oberon 5 floorstanding loudspeakers.
• Wiim Ultra streamer
• Wiim Vibelink amplifier (100w per channel)

This is my idea after a lot of reading, but my friend recommends me to get a pair of active Devialet Phantom 2 95dB to get this feeling of spaciousness in a small environment like mine.

What do you think of this idea? Thanks in advance

 

[ZolaIII]

You won't get there regarding sound stage (back to front refractions ratio) and it seams he didn't get there regarding full range either. Kapa Infinity 8 series especially 8.2 is interesting (those could go down to 30 Hz close to 0 dB) as they are close enclosure 3 way + real 8" subwoofer drivers (4 way effectively). You won't find such designs anymore however you can make (close to) them by combining sub's and bookshelf's and plugging bookshelf's ports and it will be a lot of work and not so cheap. As long as you keep RT decay times low and use equal loudness compensation you can achieve good speach and others intelligibility. Equal loudness compensation will remain to be a problem as there isn't much amp's or AVR's with it and they cost too much for your budget (and still 2.1). So a main question is are you willing to use desktop PC with PCI-E sound card and still do you poses such (at least most part)? It's 4x3 (little more) m room right?

 

[thulle]

desktop PC with PCI-E sound card

Why pci-e as requirement?

 

[Snoopy]

I would look for used loudspeakers. Wharfedale Linton 85 with Stands for example.

 

[Sibarita]

You won't get there regarding sound stage (back to front refractions ratio) and it seams he didn't get there regarding full range either. Kapa Infinity 8 series especially 8.2 is interesting (those could go down to 30 Hz close to 0 dB) as they are close enclosure 3 way + real 8" subwoofer drivers (4 way effectively). You won't find such designs anymore however you can make (close to) them by combining sub's and bookshelf's and plugging bookshelf's ports and it will be a lot of work and not so cheap. As long as you keep RT decay times low and use equal loudness compensation you can achieve good speach and others intelligibility. Equal loudness compensation will remain to be a problem as there isn't much amp's or AVR's with it and they cost too much for your budget (and still 2.1). So a main question is are you willing to use desktop PC with PCI-E sound card and still do you poses such (at least most part)? It's 4x3 (little more) m room right?

First of all, thank you for your comment.

From what you tell me, I understand that the space of the room is key to getting that amplitude in the sound space, I know the Kappa even have a tweeter in the rear. Even if I could, I don't think I would spend more money to get better and more complex solutions with the type of room I have. In fact, the listening area is about 4x3 meters (I've attached the plan, in red the area where the speakers, TV and sofa would go).

I have never had good experiences with a 2.1 system with sub, I prefer 2.0 systems, which I always find more balanced.

The idea is not to connect it to a PC, but to a RJ-45 socket or by WIFI with high quality music services, or HQ files in the local network.

 

[ZolaIII]

Why pci-e as requirement?

It neads separate chenels (4 of them) for 2.2 setup and preferably unbalanced as well there is no so much sub's (especially on tight budget) with balanced inputs. Another reason is ISO 226 2003 automatic adjustment to calibration and well you can get it with JRiver and in 2 separate bass chenels next stop is flagship Denon (Japan) AVR which alone is well multiple times the budget. And you can have that with 100~150$ PCI-E sound card + JRiver. 2.2 is must if you want to keep ISO 226 2003 in order down to low 60's SPL level (normal speach). Because when you add +12 dB to low bass you really need to ensure that it stays on those subwoofer's and without it's fundamentals carrying around over the knee for it (105 Hz). And you do that without low pass on crossover which again needs to be high at 120 Hz and from about 90 Hz it becomes directive. Of course you can compromise with only one sub put in the middle of main speakers, it will be a bit directive but that's all. You can also emulate ISO 226 2003 with self filters similar to tone controls but then it's by hand to current reading on SPL meter.

 

[DanielT]

You say ..to get this feeling of spaciousness in a small environment like mine.
Are you willing to get that at the expense of less focus? Compromises, you know.
By the way if you really want to spread out the sound in your room then look at omni speakers. Such omni can stir up emotions. Some like them others think they are only good as party speakers (to fill a room with music).

I wouldn't use Omnis in an underfurnished room with a wooden floor without carpets, no matter how much they filled the room with sound/music. Too much reflections and mush sound from it all then for my taste. In any case, if you're interested in it, you can check out this thread:

omnidirectional loudspeakers = best design available

The most important aspect of home audio reproduction, is the role of the loudspeaker. Omnidirectional loudspeakers produce the most realistic musical soundstage in the home; however they remain the least understood by the public and audiophools alike. The superiority of the design is easily...

audiosciencereview.com

On roughly the same topic, if you're interested, this thread is active now:

Beyond Linearity: Why Speaker Dispersion Matters Far More Than People Expect

My experience with narrow beam speakers (especially horn systems) and a almost acoustically "dead" room the soundstage is between the speakers and one can hear the recording probably like the master engineer did. But for me this is to some extent not naturally. In a live concert in a normal room...

audiosciencereview.com

Regarding image and focus, I think Erin described it well in the video below:

Edit:
Could a home theater with multiple speakers so you can switch between all speakers or two speakers plus a subwoofer be a solution? Then you can switch between how you want to spread the sound in your room. Note I'm not a home theater guy so in detail you'll have to ask someone else about the pros and cons of that. Input two-channel recordings into a home theater what happens then, Atmos for music and so on.

Is Dolby Atmos the Future of Music or a Complicated Fad?

https://www.headphonesty.com/2024/06/dolby-atmos-future-music-complicated-fad/

audiosciencereview.com

 

[thulle]

It neads separate chenels (4 of them) for 2.2 setup [...]

And this isn't possible via USB like all those (semi-)pro interfaces?

 

[Matt_Holland]

There are some great deals on Revel at the moment (certainly in the US and UK). F206 on paper would easily meet all your criteria.

Review

 

[ZolaIII]

@Sibarita well obvious solution is to get speakers as one's your friend has and preferably with two 8" woffer's each, and rotate the setup to full length of room.

Like this or other way around so that you can put TV and speakers where I put the sofa. You will lose heavily on bass output tho. And pair them with Yamaha R-N 1000A amplifier calibrated with YPAO and Automatic loudness on. By the way smack him a bit for recommending you little eggis of speakers.

 

[ZolaIII]

And this isn't possible via USB like all those (semi-)pro interfaces?

Yes it is but then you need to go balanced all the way around. There is a huge difference in price of cheap sub's and studio one's. Some RME ADI ones even have by hand equal loudness compensation implemented.

 

[ZolaIII]

It really, really isn't a easy task to make proper crossovers which will follow real energy peeks at crossover point and if such is in area that's very sensitive forming impact slam well guess what. It will either lack it or will be boomy even if you miss a little.

 

[thulle]

Yes it is but then you need to go balanced all the way around. There is a huge difference in price of cheap sub's and studio one's. Some RME ADI ones even have by hand equal loudness compensation implemented.

You mean a USB interface wouldn't be able to feed unbalanced subs?

 

[ZolaIII]

You mean a USB interface wouldn't be able to feed unbalanced subs?

You need 150~250 mV line to feed unbalanced sub's, no balanced out (4 V or more) won't be a good idea anyway you look at it.

 

[thulle]

You need 150~250 mV line to feed unbalanced sub's, no balanced out (4 V or more) won't be a good idea anyway you look at it.

That's a clearer argument against. But why not use the 8 output channels on a regular motherboard then?

 

[ZolaIII]

That's a clearer argument against. But why not use the 8 output channels on a regular motherboard then?

You can but it could turn to be a bit anemic to feed the mains (with 1~1.2V out), you still need a desktop PC (as laptops don't come with multichannel one) and it won't perform exactly great especially during the high power loads on PC. So if going that way AE-5 or SB Z SE don't really add much to the cost. With Z SE you get Toslink input, just don't use it as headphones amp (23 Ohms self impedance) and at most - 2 dB from max output (about 1.9V from 2.2V) if you need such (for TV for example).