Advice on home theatre set-up - speakers, receiver, amps, everything!

[Jankob]

Hi All

I've been lurking on here a long time but I recently created an account so I could post. I've finally gotten to the point where I can afford an excellent home theatre and I'd love some advice. I've attached the layout of the room - it's an open plan living space shared with a kitchen in the bottom right corner. Sound treatment, etc for the room is not an option, and for surrounds I'm limited to in-ceiling speakers. I'm in Australia, so some US/European brands are significantly more here.

Here is what I am planning:

Front Speakers
Philharmonic HT Tower ($AUD 6500)

Centre
Philharmonic HT Center ($AUD 2200 + $700AUD postage for Center + Fronts)

Surround
Unsure

Receiver
Denon X3800H ($AUD 2500)

Amplifiers for fronts and centre
Fosi V3 Mono x3 ($AUD 600)

Subwoofer
Unsure - probably SVS, Monolith or Tonewinner at around $2500 AUD

From reading reviews, the Philharmonic HT speakers seem like the best that I can get in that price range. There's someone with a BMR monitor nearby that I can demo to confirm I like the sound. Other options in the Australian market at a comparable price would be Revel Performa 3 or Concerta 2, Genelec 8050Bs and KEF r5 and R2, plus a few different Australian speaker brands like Krix and Vaf.

So my questions are:
1) Are the Philharmonics the best price/performance within my budget?
2) Is this a sensible receiver / amplifier combination (I realise that Genelecs would be powered and so wouldn't need the V3 Monos)?
3) Do you have any recommendations for in-ceiling speakers? I would only want to spend about $AUD3000 max on these.
4) My impression is that the subwoofer doesn't matter as much. I should just go with whatever is loudest for the money. Is this correct?
5) Anything else I should think about?

Thank you for your help!

 

[webmst007]

Dedicated HT room or lounge with HT?? How many subs are you planning for?
What room treatment are you budgeting for?
Do you have suitable aircon / air circulation covered?
Are you projector or TV based ? What size?
Music plus movies ? What's the split on usage?
10k on LCR speakers and 2.5k on receiver??

First questions....

 

[Defi]

In my opinion you have a very solid selection. I would definitely suggest getting at least 2 subs and Dirac ART.

1) I would not say there is a "best" in this category but you have very good options. If you can demo any, then it's a good idea, but Philharmonic, Kef, Rev, and Genelec all have the measurements to back them up so there is going to be a miniscule amount of perceivable difference in enjoyment (zero if you can't compare them at all!). Long story short: you won't be disappointed. I would pick what looks best among those. I think the Philharmonic HT look really nice and the purifi drivers are really cool. Kef R5 are really nice to me as well, but again those are just my opinions--they will all sound pretty damn good.

2) Yes the X3800 is the best receiver you can get at that budget, and there isn't much of an argument to spend more unless you plan on some 13+ speakers (excluding sub) setup. I don't know if I would bother with the Fosi amps. I would probably just run it off the receiver to start and when/if your budget allows get a 3 channel class D from Buckeye if you need more.

3) I'm not that well versed on in ceiling speakers, so I would just be googling for you at this point. Oh I just read you need that for surrounds... Hmm. I'm don't think devoting bed level channels to the ceiling is a good idea. An option would be to just use in celing for atmos and go with LCR. I'm really not an expert at how these different approaches feel like in movies, but it is something I would look into if I were you.

4) Subwoofers are very simple tools that don't have to worry about distortion or dispersion and if you are ok with them being large there is little to gain from other R&D and thus there are plenty of good subs for relatively low prices compared to mains. You've done your homework and seem you have the right brands in mind. Get as big as you can stomach in terms of price and footprint. For your room size I would get something like 2 M-12 V2 from Monolith but wow they have raised those prices? Or 2 PB 2000 from SVS. You could try putting them in both front corners, or one in the front corner as the diagram and then one in the back left corner. You would need to confirm by measurements.

5) Ya think about how to get speakers at ear level for surrounds. Wall mount? In wall? Coffee tables?

 

[PatentLawyer]

My advice is to make sure you've spent time in a home theater to make sure you enjoy the surround effects, and that your lifestyle is such that you'd really use it. I wasted big money on a home theater in my last house that we ended up barely using, and I don't think I got much (any?) of it back when we sold the place. Don't mean to be a buzzkill, it's just that sometimes the idea of something is better than the reality and I don't like the idea of anyone wasting money.

 

[Jankob]

Thanks for the engagement! Since originally posting I've had the opportunity to listen to some Philharmonic BMR monitors and they were excellent. There's a local store with Kef gear nearby, so I'll try and listen to R5s this week.

@Defi your point about the ceiling speakers is interesting. I could probably extend the speaker cables that are currently in the ceiling and run them down this back wall (photo) instead and mount traditional surround speakers there. I guess I could still put in-ceiling speakers above the couch and use those for Atmos for a 5.1.2 system. Do you think that would be better than 7.1 using in-ceiling speakers?

@webmst007 - definitely an open plan lounge with TV rather than dedicated home theatre. Room treatment isn't an option (and I don't know that it would do much anyway because of the open plan). There will be a 77 inch OLED at the front.

@PatentLawyer - I definitely want surround. I miss hearing everything move around me when I watch a movie. I've just been waiting for the kids to get old enough to be trusted not to poke holes in expensive speakers.

General question for everyone - I was going to go with one subwoofer (more palatable for my wife). For the $2500 budget, am I better off with one $2500 sub? Or two $1250 ones? This would essentially be 2x Tonewinner SW-D2000s (12 inch), rather than one SW-D6000 (15 inch).

 

[Defi]

Definitely better with 2 12" subs.

I think 5 bed level + 2 atmos is a great idea.

 

[Fslag]

See this on why surrounds must be around ear level. No exceptions of any kind.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Getting Philharmonics for home theater is amazing overkill. Extremely nice speakers for HT. You are on the right track. Also do not worry about your rear and height speakers being of the same brand. I have heard very nice HTs with great front speakers and center with very inexpensive speakers as surrounds and the system sounded amazing.

 

[Jankob]

So I looked more closely at how the rear wall aligns to the front - the centre line of the tv is in green. This means that I would only be able to do left and right rear surround speakers in the red locations. Is a 5.1.2 with the rears in this location still going to be superior than a 7.1 with the surrounds in the ceiling where I can space them wider?

 

[Fslag]

So I looked more closely at how the rear wall aligns to the front - the centre line of the tv is in green. This means that I would only be able to do left and right rear surround speakers in the red locations. Is a 5.1.2 with the rears in this location still going to be superior than a 7.1 with the surrounds in the ceiling where I can space them wider?


View attachment 519247

Read the dolby guidelines first before anything.

https://www.dolby.com/siteassets/technologies/dolby-atmos/atmos-installation-guidelines-121318_r3.1.pdf

Salesforce

dolby.my.salesforce.com

Now then. Are you prepared to learn and actively find a solution to properly placement of the speakers?
You seem either careless or unaware on the required locations of speakers.

See this for a more proper 5.1.2

 

[Talisman]

I'll tell you about my humble experience with a budget Atmos system.
The Denon 3800 receiver is exceptional for its price, and for me it was a fantastic purchase.
As for speakers, in order of importance, we have:
1) front speakers
2) center speakers
3) surround speakers
4) Atmos speakers (optional)

If you can, get a center speaker from the same line as the front speakers for the tonal coherence of voices moving forward. Many purists might frown at what I'm about to tell you: the surround speakers and Atmos speakers don't necessarily have to be the same type as the front speakers. Of course, if you can, do so. Otherwise, choose decent speakers that you can afford, and that don't have any particular colorations, and they'll be fine. We're very sensitive to the tonality of voices but very little to sound effects like rain, explosions, helicopters, missiles, etc.
Two cheaper subwoofers are better than one better one. Subwoofers are quite simple; we're very insensitive to distortion at those frequencies, and more subwoofers will ensure better bass distribution and greater potential dynamic range at the same volume.
Atmos speakers can also be simple small bookshelf speakers mounted on brackets (if they don't bother you aesthetically).
The most important part is calibration. Spend some time studying Audissey. I recommend purchasing the companion app for Android/iOS for greater control over the settings. For a few euros more, you can manage all the receiver's capabilities much better.
If you use only a few channels (e.g., 5.1.2), you can do without a separate power amplifier for the front speakers.
The most important piece of advice of all:
Once you've completed your setup, don't get caught up in the rush of improving everything, thinking you'll miss out on everything. Enjoy your system, the movies you love, the immersive experience, and spend your money on quality media like 4K Blu-rays with good soundtracks.

 

[90sNintendoKid]

I agree with previous comments, I wouldn’t mind having Philharmonic speakers as my LCR, in fact the BMR monitors are still on my consideration list.

May I suggest that you also invest in Dirac ART and for surrounds I personally would focus on speakers with good directivity which means they are EQ-able.

 

[Jankob]

Read the dolby guidelines first before anything.

https://www.dolby.com/siteassets/technologies/dolby-atmos/atmos-installation-guidelines-121318_r3.1.pdf

Salesforce

dolby.my.salesforce.com

Now then. Are you prepared to learn and actively find a solution to properly placement of the speakers?
You seem either careless or unaware on the required locations of speakers.

See this for a more proper 5.1.2

That's not an option. The rear speakers in your configuration are just sitting behind the couch. We've got two active kids and a large dog - whatever those rear speakers sat on would be knocked over very quickly. I had already looked at the Dolby standard for 5.1.2 and it has the speakers positioned as you've done to the rear side, rather than centre behind. I can't do that if the rears are going to be ear level - they will need to be wall mounted in the location I showed in my picture. However, I can put the speakers in an 'optimal' 7.1 configuration if I put all the surround speakers in the ceiling - but they won't be at ear level then.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Don't get too caught up with having the speakers precisely in the Dolby recommended position. My rear speakers are not \set up exactly correct but it still works. Remember everything is relative. I find I like 5.1 for smaller rooms or rooms that don't allow perfect placement. Adding the height speakers can be a lot of work for many people. Just set it up with no wall mounting and then you can play with placement to see what is the best sound you get from your room/setup. There is so much you can tweak with the receivers nowadays that it can give you months of playing around. I would recommend you write down each change you make so you can always go back to you latest greatest set up. Above all have fun!

 

[hex168]

Could you place in-walls in the correct position for the rears? With grills they should be safe.

 

[Jankob]

An update on this one - after spending a few hours listening to the KEF range in store, and some BMR monitors at the house of a very generous owner, I've decided on a 5.1.2 configuration. I'll be going with Philharmonic HTs and centre for the fronts and Philharmonic True Mini Monitors for the rear.

There's no Philharmonic in ceiling speaker option, so for the atmos, I'm thinking KEF CI200QR. Does this seem a reasonable match?

I'll also be using a single Tonewinner D6000. A single large subwoofer is easier to accommodate around the furniture than two smaller ones at opposite ends of the rooms.

For amplification I'm now also considering an Onkyo RZ30 because of the inclusion of Dirac Live. I'm not sure about spending another $800 US on top of the Denon for Dirac ART.

So - my main questions are what speaker for Atmos, and is Dirac ART worth the expense?

 

[thcdru2k]

KEF is a good choice for Atmos. It is more for spatial cues so any tonal mismatch is honestly imperceptible. Since your space is more accommodating for a single large subwoofer one of the major benefits of Dirac ART is using multiple subwoofers to control decay I would say Dirac ART in your specific case is not a must but it would be nice to have for future upgradability.