Advice on audio upgrade - room correction of better equipment first?

[marek]

if you were thinking about vinyl anew don't do it. if you already have records a Project or used Technics DD with a Michael Fidler preamp and AT cartridge would be okay and all for less than $1K. it's all about being an audiophile, right?

Not audiophile per se (or pretending to be musically sophisticated), rather the vintage and analog vibe. And yes, at occasion even at cost of perfect measurements.

Also, I am surprised the turntable theme caught that much attention That's more like a cherry on top.

 

[Sokel]

Those recommendations are for studio use, which means ability to play very loud within a treated room.

Domestic playback typically means to play less loud in non treated rooms, often with the listening position in the reverberant field. In my case I listen to a pair of K&H O300D (similar to Neumann KH310) and a Gentle 7060b sub in a 50 SQ room at 3.8m distance. Room treatment exists just by furniture and lots of book shelves. I never reached the limit of the speakers even when playing louder than I Iike to handle. The system sounds very good.

Totally agree, that's your experience and it may coincide with the OP.
Mine, in my previous house with similar room volume, not treated other than the usual, doesn't.
3m MLP for me.

Anything smaller than a big-ish 3-ways sounded like a candle in the dark, not matter the DSP and subs, no body, no impact, thin.
That's with my music of course (classical) ,other genres may be different.
But even with old rock, no kick, no nothing with smaller speakers (that's what old rock is all about I think, Moonchild should be a series of kicks on the chest for example) .

So, one can choose and take.

 

[marek]

You mention the NAD M66. I have just bought one (after enjoying other Master Series for 10 yeares or so), but I'm not 100% over the moon about it. Consider the M33 instead, or better still wait for the new M33 V2 that should be available about now. This has a better DAC than the M66, includes a first-class power amp and (unless they have stripped out some of V1's features) offers more nice or useful features that the M66 sadly and annoyingly doesn't - and you won't need a separate amp or interconnects.

May I ask what amp and speakers do you use with M66? Did you also enable dirac? Why would you say M33 be better? Sound characteristics are different?

Initially i thought of trying M66 but mostly due to Dirac Live built-in. Now I am hesitating. I also liked the modularity idea, where I could start upgrading the equipment before moving A500s completely to another room - get M66, enable Dirac, connect with my A500s via XLR, and after some time decide what amp + speakers I want to put.

 

[Willem]

As an experiment I once put the Harbeth P3s from my study in the main system in our large living room. I love those little speakers for what they can do in a small room, but they were obviously not big anough for a large room. So I also connected the subwoofer from the main system for a miraculous result: the small speakers suddenly seemed to have the extension of really large speakers. However, even though the sound was also bigger and filled more of the room, the sound was still not "big" enough to fill the room. It might have done that with medium size main speakers, however.

 

[Hear Here]

Also, I am surprised the turntable theme caught that much attention That's more like a cherry on top.

Not a cherry on the top but a massive block of expensive concrete! If you include the extra cost of a reasonably good vinyl-playback system, you will need to trim back your speakers budget considerably. That's daft! If money is no object, then no problem, but not many of us here enjoy that status. Just my 2p worth!

 

[Hear Here]

May I ask what amp and speakers do you use with M66? Did you also enable dirac? Why would you say M33 be better? Sound characteristics are different?

Initially i thought of trying M66 but mostly due to Dirac Live built-in. Now I am hesitating. I also liked the modularity idea, where I could start upgrading the equipment before moving A500s completely to another room - get M66, enable Dirac, connect with my A500s via XLR, and after some time decide what amp + speakers I want to put.

Currently I use the M66 with a pair of Atma-Sphere Class D mono amps. Very good they are too, from a long-standing and respected US valve amp builder who has seen the light and started building Class D amps using Gallium Nitride FETs. These drive Avantgarde Duo XD speakers. The speakers are a very easy load being 107 dB sensitivity and 18 ohm impedance. 100 watts is more than enough power.

I'd been using the M33 for 3 years or so and loved it. The M66 seems to be an upgrade, but it has lots of features missing compared with the M33, although these are generally not sound quality related. I was mentioning the new M33 Version 2 that seems to offer even better performance than the M66, in terms of DAC anyway. The V2 features DL and DLBC (same as M66) but caters for only 2 subs not 4 as in the M66.

However, if you have genuinely full-range main speakers as I do, all these newer NADs have a serious problem if used with subs. In the Settings, you have to state there are subs present (otherwise no signal from Sub Outs) and you have to specify a crossover that governs both the main and sub speakers. In my case, if I select 2 Subs and choose say 70 Hz, my main speakers and crippled as they are deprived of those low frequencies and I have to ask "Why spend so much money on full-range speakers for them to be unable to deliver deep bass? It's odd and very distressing as earlier NAD Master Series (M12 and M32) allowed different or no XOs to be applied to Main and Sub outputs.

So, with my system, I tell the NAD that there are no subs, but I feed the subs directly from the speaker output of the power amps - or via the preamp outputs if I want to use low level signal. This of course messes up the abilities of DL and DLBC as these DSPs will only recognise 2 speakers - left and right – ie the combined output of left main plus left sub and right main plus right sub.

Are you following all this? You did ask! Happy to explain further if needed.

PS – If your main speakers are not full-range, the compulsory XO is likely to be beneficial when subs are added. You will protect your main speakers from deep bass so louder levels are less likely to result in distortion.