Advice on Active Monitors NOT for Nearfield Listening

[electricmonk]

So I've been thinking about getting active monitors, but many of these seem to be meant for nearfield listening which is not what I have in mind. I just want these for a more typical living room setup (and I'm not trying to mix audio or anything), where I have seating in the sweet spot, but I'm often listening off-axis for significant lengths of time when in other parts of the room. So I need to rule out any highly directional monitors meant for nearfield listening because I want to fill the room with sound. Or is this just not really a good application for studio monitors? Would also like to avoid anything with highly obvious hiss.

I recently picked up a SMSL M500 (from the review on this forum) I'm using with my headphones for now (great improvement from what I was using), listening area is 18' x 11' x 8' high (and then opens up on one of the shorter sides into a kitchen which is itself about half of this size, not sure what kind of difference that might make).

Budget is around $800, I could go a bit higher for something highly recommended, but would also be happy to spend a lot less. I've been looking at the Yamaha HS7 or HS8 and ADAM T7V but I really don't know what I should be looking for and would greatly appreciate any advice! And apologies if this is a stupid question!

 

[Ilkless]

http://www.libinst.com/PublicArticles/Setup of WG Speakers.pdf

A controlled directivity speaker with extreme toe-in counter-intuitively yields a wider sweet spot. The above link is a very accessible white paper that explains why with simple diagrams. It draws on work by experts such as Earl Geddes. The T7V has good controlled dispersion that would be suitable for such an application.

 

[q3cpma]

So basically, you need something that plays loud and with smooth off-axis. Do you have a subwoofer? Because this really important for the "loud" part; even if it's only the let the main speakers only act as a midrange+tweeter.

 

[beefkabob]

How loud do you want to listen? Gonna get a sub later? What kind of music?

 

[electricmonk]

To answer both replies, I don't have a subwoofer, but I will likely pick one up sometime after I get the speakers. My thinking was to get the monitors first and then see if I needed more low end (and that I might better appreciate the contributions of the sub after using the monitors on their own for a month or so). I know the recommendation is generally to go for two subs, but due to space and budget, I'm much more likely to just get one (at least for the near future). I listen mostly at moderate volume, but occasionally go higher, though I think this is more because my current speakers are garbage and I can't hear detail well at lower levels. I like my hearing, so I never go that high on volume. I bring hearing protection to concerts.

Type of music is pretty wide ranging, but a lot of metal, prog, and experimental music, also some jazz and classical.

 

[LeftCoastTim]

I had a pair of JBL 308 + JBL 310s sub which cost me about $800. It was a very nice setup until I upgraded to 708p’s.

308s didn’t feel underpowered because the sub was doing a good job.

Spending some money on a dsp for room mode correction is very much worth it in my humble opinion. Amir’s reviews seem to indicate good clean bass has a substantial impact on perceived sound quality.

 

[electricmonk]

http://www.libinst.com/PublicArticles/Setup of WG Speakers.pdf

A controlled directivity speaker with extreme toe-in counter-intuitively yields a wider sweet spot. The above link is a very accessible white paper that explains why with simple diagrams. It draws on work by experts such as Earl Geddes. The T7V has good controlled dispersion that would be suitable for such an application.

This is very interesting, thank you! I was thinking about trying out an extreme toe in at some point, with speakers basically at either end of the room pointing in, but had no idea if that would make sense or not. Looks like a possibility!

 

[andreasmaaan]

listening area is 18' x 11' x 8' high (and then opens up on one of the shorter sides into a kitchen which is itself about half of this size, not sure what kind of difference that might make).

One impact of the room leading onto a kitchen will be that there will be slightly less "room gain" and the room modes will be at different (lower) frequencies than they would have been in if the room were effectively sealed. This might mean you need speakers that can put out slightly higher SPLs in the bass than you otherwise might have.

Another possible impact may be in terms of the amount of sound reflected/absorbed. There are usually few or no soft absorptive surfaces in kitchens. Is that so in your case?

I've been looking at the Yamaha HS7 or HS8 and ADAM T7V but I really don't know what I should be looking for and would greatly appreciate any advice!

The Yamahas you mention are both decent speakers. I would choose the HS7 over the HS8. The latter's off-axis performance is not as good and my subjective impression has been that this leads to it sounding a little hard in the treble.

The T7Vs look quite good too, with similar performance on-axis but slightly smoother off-axis than the HS8 (haven't seen measurements of the HS7). I'm only going by the manufacturer measurements on their website, but Adam is generally pretty trustworthy AFAIK. I don't think this speaker would be a bad choice in your circumstances.

This is very interesting, thank you! I was thinking about trying out an extreme toe in at some point, with speakers basically at either end of the room pointing in, but had no idea if that would make sense or not. Looks like a possibility!

But still try to keep as much distance as possible from nearby walls, or you'll have destructive interference issues with early reflections.

 

[Ilkless]

The T7Vs look quite good too, with similar performance on-axis but slightly smoother off-axis than the HS8 (haven't seen measurements of the HS7). I'm only going by the manufacturer measurements on their website, but Adam is generally pretty trustworthy AFAIK..

S&R magazine polars - it's actually very good.

 

[Jmudrick]

The Kali IN-8 work just fine in my living room, measure well, ok on budget.

 

[q3cpma]

The Behringer Truth B2031A is made for your situation: very high volume/dynamics, goes low, good directivity because it's a ripoff of the Genelec 103x and because it has a "large" baffle (25 cm). And it's cheap!
Here's a review with few measurements: http://noaudiophile.com/Behringer_Truth_B2031A/
See also https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/177403-linkwitz-orions-beaten-behringer.html
Another update - I have added the Orion and a two way Behringer to the list of systems. Check out the Behringer! I am impressed - and that's hard to do! - Gedlee
I think you can read the measurements here: http://www.gedlee.com/Application Files/RunPolarMap.aspx (don't have Windows so I don't know).

I'd recommend Genelec, Neumann or JBL, but you don't have the budget, so it's probably the best choice here.

 

[andreasmaaan]

View attachment 59112

S&R magazine polars - it's actually very good.

Yeh, looks excellent. There's no way the HS7 could measure as well off-axis.

The reason I was a little hesitant to wholeheartedly recommend the T7Vs was actually the on-axis response, with a wideband dip in the upper bass / lower midrange.

Would be easily corrected with EQ, however.

 

[electricmonk]

Another possible impact may be in terms of the amount of sound reflected/absorbed. There are usually few or no soft absorptive surfaces in kitchens. Is that so in your case?

Yes, the kitchen has tile floors, cabinets, granite countertops, etc. There is also a large granite bar dividing the kitchen from the listening room at a height of 42 in, which is pretty close to ear height when I am sitting down. I would guess this in particular could be problematic for sound reflections? I generally keep things out on this bar, so hopefully this helps a little, but I could also cover much of it with some kind of fabric, if that might make a difference?

So now I'm considering the ADAM T7V vs the Truth B2031A. The T7V is practically better for me because it weighs so much less (about half the B2031A) and I currently have wall mounts that would probably not support the weight of the B2031A. I plan to experiment with other placements in the room on stands as well, but it would be nice to have the option to put them on the wall and out of the way on occasion.

If anybody has thoughts on relevant differences between these 2 that would be great! I'm not so tied to this practical advantage of the T7V that I would simply rule out the B2031A. And I'm currently reading through the links so helpfully provided by q3cpma

 

[q3cpma]

Yes, the kitchen has tile floors, cabinets, granite countertops, etc. There is also a large granite bar dividing the kitchen from the listening room at a height of 42 in, which is pretty close to ear height when I am sitting down. I would guess this in particular could be problematic for sound reflections? I generally keep things out on this bar, so hopefully this helps a little, but I could also cover much of it with some kind of fabric, if that might make a difference?

So now I'm considering the ADAM T7V vs the Truth B2031A. The T7V is practically better for me because it weighs so much less (about half the B2031A) and I currently have wall mounts that would probably not support the weight of the B2031A. I plan to experiment with other placements in the room on stands as well, but it would be nice to have the option to put them on the wall and out of the way on occasion.

If anybody has thoughts on relevant differences between these 2 that would be great! I'm not so tied to this practical advantage of the T7V that I would simply rule out the B2031A. And I'm currently reading through the links so helpfully provided by q3cpma

Yeah, probably too heavy for wall mounts. This would go great on furniture or solid stands.

Looking at other options, Presonus's bigger Eris XT (E7 or E8) might work. Impressive waveguide/horn, front port makes it easier to wallmount, way beefier amps than the ADAM (class AB too, the E5 uses some STMicro TDA7294), wider baffle meaning lower baffle step and the best bonus: a LF cutoff dip switch that means integration with hi-fi subwoofer is easy as pie. No measurements, sadly.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

http://www.libinst.com/PublicArticles/Setup of WG Speakers.pdf

A controlled directivity speaker with extreme toe-in counter-intuitively yields a wider sweet spot. The above link is a very accessible white paper that explains why with simple diagrams. It draws on work by experts such as Earl Geddes. The T7V has good controlled dispersion that would be suitable for such an application.

Actually, all the experts credited are drawing on the work of Alan Blumlein.

 

[LeftCoastTim]

I had a pair of JBL 308 + JBL 310s sub which cost me about $800. It was a very nice setup until I upgraded to 708p’s.

308s didn’t feel underpowered because the sub was doing a good job.

Spending some money on a dsp for room mode correction is very much worth it in my humble opinion. Amir’s reviews seem to indicate good clean bass has a substantial impact on perceived sound quality.

PS: I would suggest getting the subs now so you can integrate them properly from the start.

When I upgraded to the 708p’s, I took the subwoofer out of the equation thinking maybe I won’t miss them. I put them back in after a week. Good, clean bass makes everything sound better. I spent some money on a measurement mic and dsp hardware. Well worth it.

 

[electricmonk]

PS: I would suggest getting the subs now so you can integrate them properly from the start.

When I upgraded to the 708p’s, I took the subwoofer out of the equation thinking maybe I won’t miss them. I put them back in after a week. Good, clean bass makes everything sound better. I spent some money on a measurement mic and dsp hardware. Well worth it.

Thanks for the advice, I'll try to get the sub sooner rather than later. What kind of dsp hardware do you use? This kind of thing is very new to me, but I can understand the value of having something like this!

 

[Evergreen]

What about active speakers that are more aimed at the hi-fi market than the studio? I'd think these would work well non-nearfield. Vanatoos and some of the discontinued (and thus discounted) Dynaudios are in your price range:

Vanatoo Transparent One Encore ($600)
Dynaudio Excite X14A ($850)
Dynaudio Xeos 2 ($700) or Xeos 4 ($1100, including the Connect wireless hub)

I haven't heard these myself, but I've been researching for a similar use (good sound at moderate volume, not nearfield, some off-axis use).

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Stick with JBL with waveguide. Even the cheap models sound good. Monoprice has cheap sturdy stands that look nice. Problem is room correction. Dirac or Anthem. I love Anthem room correction but cost of entry is beyond your proposed budget.

 

[SIY]

Vanatoo Transparent One Encore ($600)

They're excellent in-room. My review reprinted here.