Advice on acoustic room treatments for home hifi

[kiwibrit]

Hi,



I’m after some advice on potential acoustic treatments for my living room. I’ve made a reasonable investment in my hifi set up over the last few years (mainly Naim) but concerned that room acoustics in my apartment living room is becoming quite a limiting factor.



Room is 5.5m x3.8m (~18” x 13”) in size. One side wall is a concrete wall, the other is floor-to-ceiling windows for the full length (not ideal!). There are also floor-to-ceiling windows immediately behind the sofa though this doesn’t extend all the way along to allow access to the room from the rest of the apartment. Diagram and photo below are set out below. All windows are covered with simple roller blinds.



Unfortunately I can’t change rooms I use to listen to hifi and it isn’t practical to relocate sofa etc.



Any thoughts on where to start with any acoustic treatments would be greatly appreciated in particular any simple things that would have a particularly big impact.



Thanks!

Matt

 

[Rednaxela]

concerned that room acoustics in my apartment living room is becoming quite a limiting factor.

Could you perhaps elaborate a bit more on this?

Is there anything specific that you wish to fix?

 

[chych7]

IMO you should start with getting a measurement mic (like UMIK-1) and measure your system w/REW, to first understand what the acoustic problems are. Then you can be more precise about addressing specific issues. If I had to guess from your room - you'll want some bass traps for the available corner where the lamp is, and some light absorption/diffusion wherever you can place them (including ceiling). Your room doesn't look like it has many places to mount panels.

 

[youngho]

Any thoughts on where to start with any acoustic treatments would be greatly appreciated in particular any simple things that would have a particularly big impact.

Probably should start with thick (minimum 10 cm, preferably 15-20 cm) absorption panels behind each speaker, would be preferable to also add a similar panel but floorstanding behind the main listening position (perhaps could turn on its side and tuck behind the sofa when not listening). Maybe swap out the coffee table for the ottoman. These three things would probably have the biggest impact in terms of acoustic treatments.

 

[napfkuchen]

Probably should start with thick (minimum 10 cm, preferably 15-20 cm) absorption panels behind each speaker...

... but keep in mind speaker placement:

Genelec also has some guidelines which you might find helpful.

 

[Deleted member 46664]

This might give you some ideas ....

Home Audio Setup (DBPages)

 

[youngho]

... but keep in mind speaker placement:

Genelec also has some guidelines which you might find helpful.

Yes, I was just answering the OP’s specific question regarding acoustic treatments, but certainly there are many ways to go including replacing the freestanding speakers entirely and adding boundary compensation and/or equalization, also multiple subwoofers, preferably with DSP, plus ceiling cloud and thicker floor absorption to deal with floor bounce, but don’t forget possible sidewall absorption or diffusion (lower priority due to distance and delay).

 

[Rednaxela]

Still no clue what the OP wants to remedy exactly.

I mean you can not just throw in a handful of bass traps and acoustic panels can you? Surely they will have impact but how do you know it is the desired impact?

 

[kiwibrit]

Could you perhaps elaborate a bit more on this?

Is there anything specific that you wish to fix?

Thanks for all the advice. @Rednaxela - my original comment was probably a little opaque: key issue is harshness and over-brightness of high frequencies, which I assume is compounded by the amount of glass walls in the room

 

[Rednaxela]

Thank you.

Out of interest, do you also experience this when playing the piano?

 

[Rednaxela]

Also, do you have some data re. the anechoic response of your speakers?

I think it could be very informative when you would be able to compare that against an in-room response measurement at the LP.

 

[Eetu]

I would also start with thick (freestanding?) absorption behind the sofa, assuming the floor-to-ceiling windows extend behind your listening position.

I would probably add absorption to the ceiling. It would help with first reflections there and also bring the overall room decay time down.

The coffee table is a problem and will introduce comb filtering.

I think the side walls are not that big of an issue since they are quite far and thus the reflections are attenuated compared to ceiling-floor and rear-front.

 

[youngho]

Often, it become readily apparent that responding to OPs like @kiwibrit is a waste of time and effort. Consequently, I have decided to delete my response.

 

[Deleted member 46664]

Just a simple comment ... Based on the lead photo, he has a very nice living room there.
It would be a shame to turn it into a rubberized recording studio.

Maybe look into some EQ or heavier curtains on the windows ... but don't coat the thing in "audiophile" panels.

This is my system ... the "brick" behind it is PE Foam Wall Panels, readily available from Amazon (and others). They are an irregular soft surface and they do as much as just about any diffuser or absorber will do.

The carpet is a medium pile cotton ... available almost anywhere.

I also hung Canvas Art (without glass in front) on the wall opposite which acts as a limp membrane absorber and definitely killed the bounce-back behind my listening position.

It is possible to get pretty decent room treatment from ordinary objects and things that don't look like recording studio panels.
Trust me ... they only look nice to audiophiles ... the rest of the world thinks they're nuts.

 

[Eetu]

This is my system ... the "brick" behind it is PE Foam Wall Panels, readily available from Amazon (and others). They are an irregular soft surface and they do as much as just about any diffuser or absorber will do.

Being only 8mm thick I don't think they have much of an effect compared to thicker panels. From an aesthetic POV I would personally take panels like ones from GIK Acoustics over plastic faux brick stickers anyday but it's good there's plenty of options.

And @youngho I'm aware I repeated much of what you had already said, just wanted to offer a 2nd opinion/corroboration Solid advice there.

 

[Deleted member 46664]

Being only 8mm thick I don't think they have much of an effect compared to thicker panels. From an aesthetic POV I would personally take panels like ones from GIK Acoustics over plastic faux brick stickers anyday but it's good there's plenty of options.

And @youngho I'm aware I repeated much of what you had already said, just wanted to offer a 2nd opinion/corroboration Solid advice there.

Where did you get 8mm from? You looked for the thinnest and least attractive ones?

And, yes it does work.

 

[Eetu]

Where did you get 8mm from? You looked for the thinnest and least attractive ones?

And, yes it does work.

I clicked the link you provided and they all seemed to be 6-8mm thick. I didn't look past the first page. But even if they were thicker I would like to see some sound absorption coefficient values before considering panels like that over dedicated absorption panels.

 

[Deleted member 46664]

I clicked the link you provided and they all seemed to be 6-8mm thick. I didn't look past the first page. But even if they were thicker I would like to see some sound absorption coefficient values before considering panels like that over dedicated absorption panels.

You saw the photo of my system ... (the bricks are much darker without the camera flash, btw)...
I used to sit on my couch and have conversations with the guy behind the TV... the echo was that bad.
Put these up... echo gone. Not reduced or changed ... gone.

I can't give you numbers because this stuff isn't marketed as acoustic treatment and not to audiophiles. It's just a nice side effect of the way they're made. ... It's like moving your bookshelf a foot instead of spending $1200 on diffusers.

You may want to look at my page on Home Audio Setup ... It's about setting up a proper stereo without sabotaging your decor.
https://dbpages.ca/audio/4/index.html

 

[bpb]

IMO you should start with getting a measurement mic (like UMIK-1) and measure your system w/REW, to first understand what the acoustic problems are. Then you can be more precise about addressing specific issues. If I had to guess from your room - you'll want some bass traps for the available corner where the lamp is, and some light absorption/diffusion wherever you can place them (including ceiling). Your room doesn't look like it has many places to mount panels.

I would definitely recommend measuring your room with a UMIK-1 and REW (and agree with the point on speaker positioning). I got a UMIK-1 recently and it gives you hard data on problem areas and whether you've managed to address them.

From what I've learnt, the exact type and positioning of acoustic treatments will depend on the specifics of your room. However, all that glass is almost certainly going to reflect well and is likely the cause of the over-brightness. Most manufacturers of acoustic panels offer free-standing options. Having few panels down the glass side wall and behind the listening position should help. Wouldn't interfere with the roller blinds either.

I've found this channel a good resource for acoustic treatments - https://www.youtube.com/c/AcousticsInsider

And Ethan Winer has lots of good info (posted on ASR many times before) - http://ethanwiner.com/basstrap_myths.htm and http://ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

Good luck!

 

[FeddyLost]

Due to nice design "as is" and some practical reasons most of solutions working really well might be not acceptable.
I'd try to add some diffusion
like wooden window blinds from big slats that will redirect side reflections into the ceiling
or GIK diffsorbers with compatible design
Anything else will definitely require a lot of measurements and most probably significant rearrange of furniture and setup. The question is if you can allow this?