Advice on 1U Audio Interfaces for Live/Home Use (inc. older models)?

[Trailblazin]

Sup people, in brief; may be starting a band, maybe not.
However, I definitely need an upgrade over a UMC22 for my potential band and home audio mixing; through some hacking, I don't actually need a mixer.

Looking for something 1 Rack Unit in size, otherwise I'd get an iD14 MKII and call it a day.
Minimum 8in/8out with extension options, more is preferred ofc.

My budget is pretty low though ~£300 or so; was considering the PreSonus 1824c but don't have much data on it.
I mentioned older models in the title, simply because I could more reliably get them second hand (like an older FireWire interface, for example).
Though I'm not privy to performance improvements of interfaces over time, is this a bad idea or a decent option?

What options would you recommend?

 

[Blumlein 88]

The Focusrite 18i20 is listed as 1U rack mountable. A new 4th gen model might be a little above budget, but 2nd and 3rd gen units are nearly the same and widely available second hand.

I would shy away from Firewire models. You'll be stuck with few computers to work with them. Newer Macs don't. Not many PCs had firewire and none do currently. You can get Thunderbolt 2 to firewire adapters, but even that is not part of newer MacOS.

 

[Trailblazin]

The Focusrite 18i20 is listed as 1U rack mountable. A new 4th gen model might be a little above budget, but 2nd and 3rd gen units are nearly the same and widely available second hand.

I would shy away from Firewire models. You'll be stuck with few computers to work with them. Newer Macs don't. Not many PCs had firewire and none do currently. You can get Thunderbolt 2 to firewire adapters, but even that is not part of newer MacOS.

Ty for the reply.
I know there are other options such as Audient's EVO8, PreSonus's 1818VSL (older version of the prior mentioned 1824c, basically), Behringers UMC1820, Tascam16x08.
Is the Focusrite 18i20 recommendation significant enough to disregard other similaroptions?

Understood on the firewire point, I know about Firewire to Thunderbolt 2 adapters and whilst I could add additional converter for Thunderbolt 2 to 3/USB C; it seems a bit obtuse.
It may be worth considering for ADAT expansion; though, ADAT expansion could change my options entirely, allowing for an Audient ID14MKII (For the amazing converters, I'll find a way to mount it) + a 1U ADAT device such as an ADA8200 or ASP800/800 (If budget were to allow down the line).
Correct me if I am entirely wrong about this, either way.

Another option could be one of the "hybrid" MOTU DSP interfaces, such as the 828/896mk3 (I know it's 2U but it's fine), that "should" run on FireWire *or* USB?

Anything to add?

 

[Blumlein 88]

Ty for the reply.
I know there are other options such as Audient's EVO8, PreSonus's 1818VSL (older version of the prior mentioned 1824c, basically), Behringers UMC1820, Tascam16x08.
Is the Focusrite 18i20 recommendation significant enough to disregard other similaroptions?

I would say no. Any that have features or appearance you like will do a good job for you.

Understood on the firewire point, I know about Firewire to Thunderbolt 2 adapters and whilst I could add additional converter for Thunderbolt 2 to 3/USB C; it seems a bit obtuse.
It may be worth considering for ADAT expansion; though, ADAT expansion could change my options entirely, allowing for an Audient ID14MKII (For the amazing converters, I'll find a way to mount it) + a 1U ADAT device such as an ADA8200 or ASP800/800 (If budget were to allow down the line).
Correct me if I am entirely wrong about this, either way.

Another option could be one of the "hybrid" MOTU DSP interfaces, such as the 828/896mk3 (I know it's 2U but it's fine), that "should" run on FireWire *or* USB?

Anything to add?

One issue even with adapters to Firewire are the drivers if you are using Macs (I don't know what you use). Macs don't allow any 32 bit software in I think the last three versions. If a company hasn't written 64 bit drivers for their firewire gear even with Thunderbolt 4 to 2 to Firewire won't work. RME is one company which has kept the drivers up to date and I think their Firewire will work over adapters. I know I have a TC electronics firewire interface and it won't work. I think most haven't updated their drivers for Firewire.

I don't see any reason the Motu firewire/USB won't work over USB.

As far as ADAT, yes that is a good way to expand what you have and get the inputs you wish. You'll end up using the clocks in the ADA8200 or whatever as you have to do that for it to sync up. I don't know that presents any problem.

 

[Trailblazin]

Ok, understood - I'm basically running on a budget first sort of deal as I don't know how long the band is gonna last and I otherwise do not need the inputs.
I'll prioritize an 18i20 though about the alternatives, where all prices are similar.

I don't have a Mac currently but was planning to get a cheaper M1 to use for running the DAW for the live sessions - ah shucks, sounds like the only way I get away with an older Firewire is getting an RME, which maybe hard to find given my input/output needs.

Good to know about Motu Firewire/USB being a valid option.

Honestly, ADAT might be the best option though as I don't really need DSP, just good converters. The only concern I have is the ADAT sync introducing latency due to the clock sync. Also, an ADA8200 has XLR outs rather than TRS outs; can I safely use 3.5mm to XLR for output to IEMs?

 

[Blumlein 88]

I don't think the ADAT synching will cause latency, but there is some latency with something like the ADA8200. The spec for it at 44.1 khz is .55 milliseconds. Also most things like the ADA8200 don't do any DSP. They are mic preamps with AD and DA conversion.

As for using XLR output to IEM's that might not work great due to the output impedance of the line outs being higher than what IEMs need. What you would normally do is follow this path:
mics>ADA8200>via ADAT to ID14 and if you need phones that would come from the ID14.

Now if you had in mind feeding the xlr out to each musician for some phones, then you will run into not being able to control volume on those. What you would want to do is have those XLRs feed a distribution phone amp like this one. You get to vary the volume of each headphone independently.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HA8000V2--behringer-ha8000-v2-8-ch-headphone-mixing-distribution-amplifier

A cheaper approach would be a pair of these. In this case you could output the stereo mix from your interface to this and each phone volume could be set for each musician.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HA400--behringer-microamp-ha400-4-ch-headphone-amplifier

Now there is not much price difference in the UMC1820 and ADA8200. You'll be going thru the AD converters of the Behringer either way. So using an 8 channel interface from one within your budget is probably going to simplify matters for you.

 

[dr0ss]

Let me know if something like this would be useful: https://www.roland.com/us/products/ua-1g/
I have a few spare in a box somewhere. It won't be a big step up, but the AK4556 processor is I think a little better than the one in your Behringer.

 

[Trailblazin]

I don't think the ADAT synching will cause latency, but there is some latency with something like the ADA8200. The spec for it at 44.1 khz is .55 milliseconds. Also most things like the ADA8200 don't do any DSP. They are mic preamps with AD and DA conversion.

As for using XLR output to IEM's that might not work great due to the output impedance of the line outs being higher than what IEMs need. What you would normally do is follow this path:
mics>ADA8200>via ADAT to ID14 and if you need phones that would come from the ID14.

Now if you had in mind feeding the xlr out to each musician for some phones, then you will run into not being able to control volume on those. What you would want to do is have those XLRs feed a distribution phone amp like this one. You get to vary the volume of each headphone independently.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HA8000V2--behringer-ha8000-v2-8-ch-headphone-mixing-distribution-amplifier

A cheaper approach would be a pair of these. In this case you could output the stereo mix from your interface to this and each phone volume could be set for each musician.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HA400--behringer-microamp-ha400-4-ch-headphone-amplifier

Now there is not much price difference in the UMC1820 and ADA8200. You'll be going thru the AD converters of the Behringer either way. So using an 8 channel interface from one within your budget is probably going to simplify matters for you.

Hiya, sorry I took so long to come back. Thanks for confirming that ADAT syncing won't add latency besides the native hardware of the device.

I think to explain my use of ins/outs, it'll be better to give my intended breakdown for an 8in/10out interface (UMC1820, 18i20, 1824c, 828(older), etc; assuming all are at similar spec).

The IEM outs would be managed by the receivers (assuming wireless) or the wired equivalents, the remaining outs would go to FoH.

To your point, I don't it's worth considering the ADA8200 at all. At home, I'd upgrade my UMC22 to 4i-4o either an: Audient mkii or the new SSL and keep my 8i-10o for the band. My home interface will far exceed my needs spec-wise, I can extend the inputs of my home interface via ADAT into my second interface if ever needed and my budget/older 8i-10o will get to make use of DI boxes.

Let me know if something like this would be useful: https://www.roland.com/us/products/ua-1g/
I have a few spare in a box somewhere. It won't be a big step up, but the AK4556 processor is I think a little better than the one in your Behringer.

I appreciate the offer, the processor is an improvement but I'd need a second input; don;'t want to waste your time sending it over to remain unused.