Advice for a basic cheap upgrade

[Lup]

Hello everyone, I'm a complete newbie in both hi-fi (maybe I should say low-fi based on my basic setup) and in this forum, which I find extremely interesting. So please be kind about mistakes!

I have a very basic setup in my living room and I'm definitely not happy about it. I would like to do a step by step improvement, considering the very limited budget. As first step I would like to switch from the actual dac and amplifier to a better integrated amplifier with Bluetooth receiver or wifi. My budget is 100€.

Can you suggest me something better than my actual setup?(I don't have very high expectations based on the budget available, of course, but the best I can get with it). I was looking at SMSL, Fosi or Wiim, or else.

Thanks for the help!

Actual setup:

--> 2 Passive speakers tannoy mercury mx1

Enclosure Type:	2 way bass reflex
Rec Amplifier:	10 - 100 Watts
FQ Response:	55Hz - 20kHz
Sensitivity:	87dB
Impedance:	8 Ohms
Drivers:	1 x 25mm soft dome 1 x 130mm ceramic coated paper cone
Dimensions:	298 x 165 x 220mm (W x H x D)
Weight:	4kg / 8.8lbs
Year:	2000 - 2002

--> FX-AUDIO FX-502E amplifier

TI LM1036 Dual DC Operated Tone/Volume/Balance Circuit

ST microelectronics TDA7498 100-watt + 100-watt dual BTL class-D audio amplifier

TI TL082 or ne532p opamp (not clear from specs)

Impedence: 4-8 ohms
THD: 0.2%
SNR o: 73dB

-->bluetooth receiver esinkin

Qualcom CSR8620 chip

 

[Svend P]

Electronics doesn't make a noticeable difference unless you get an amplifier with room correction. Speakers are the most important part. You could add a subwoofer to your setup?

 

[Chromatischism]

In order of largest improvement to your sound, to the smallest:

1. Speakers
2. Room setup, including positioning and treatments
3. Electronics*

However, electronics are where the user experience is, and that can make a big difference. If it's too much work to get the system up and running, and it's clumsy changing up your material, you're less likely to use it.

So I can sympathize with wanting to get a good integrated amp to make the system more enjoyable to use. The budget is really low, however, so I worry that by pulling the trigger now on something cheap, you'll be worse off than saving for longer and buying once.

*It's true that room correction/EQ lies here, which can be huge, but I would still put it third because you really should nail 1 and 2 first.

 

[ElJaimito]

In order of largest improvement to your sound, to the smallest:

1. Speakers
2. Room setup, including positioning and treatments
3. Electronics*

I'd state it differently:

1. Room setup especially treament.
2. Speakers

There is no 3, unless using grossly inadequate electronics. Errors in the room response and speaker response are multiple orders of magnitude greater than the difference between adequately-designed electronics. Bad rooms destroy good speakers, so that's the starting point. It's unlikely that at present your amp is limiting the result: at normal listening levels distortion is unlikely to be apparent. But this does not apply to listening using the built-in Bluetooth, I think. Direct connection is required (don't know enough to be sure which Bluetooth level it is using, but I just do not use it except on some cans). A better amp won't hurt of course.

Also of course, unless using a dedicated listening room (or studio), there are inevitable compromises in what room treatments can be applied that are acceptable to all family members.

Quantifying the room response is the most significant starting point. Learning how to do so and then what to do about it is complex, but there's lots of help available here and e.g. DIY Audio, and other places too. Since this is hard work most people skip it and go to easier stuff - pointlessly IMHO

 

[Chromatischism]

You can make a system sound good by putting the best speakers in a poor room.

You can't make a system sound good by putting poor speakers in the best room.

So we'll agree to disagree.

 

[JeremyFife]

Hi, welcome and thanks for the question. Don't be put off any responses... it's all about learning.

Normally I'd agree - leave the electronics alone and look at a speaker change first.

However, that is quite an inexpensive amplifier. Does it do DAC too, or is that your Bluetooth receiver?

Do you hear any significant noise - hiss from your speakers, or crackling/breaking up of the sound when you play, especially as you increase volume.
If you don't, or it's minor, then that little amp is probably fine for now - it could well be ok.
If you do then an amplifier upgrade makes sense.

What sources do you use, how do you listen to music? (How far away, how loud).

I think I'd suggest saving up a bit more and aiming for active speakers - Edifier MR4 are not bad at all, JBL 305P are great. Second hand is very sensible.
Your current DAC will do for now, but a WiiM mini could be a good option
Upgrade it to a WiiM Pro Plus later, and your mini can go into another room as the start of your multi-room setup.

The review index here will show you inexpensive integrated amps (Aiyima, Fosi, Loxjie) and also well reviewed speakers. Have a look, but think about what you want to achieve first.

Definitely experiment with room placement, that will help whatever you do.

 

[Chromatischism]

I think there is more of a use case for active speakers at a PC than in a dedicated system used for a room. Because in a room system, you're more likely to have DAC and amplification already covered, especially with an integrated amp or AVR. Those items don't fit well with a PC system, so active speakers save space there.

 

[Timcognito]

Loxjie A30 Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the multifunction Loxjie A30 power (speaker and headphone) amplifier with integrated USB DAC and Bluetooth input. It was kindly sent to me by a member and costs US $159 plus $7 shipping on Amazon. The A30 sports a high resolution and high contrast...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[AnalogSteph]

My budget is 100€.

That's not a whole lot in the grand scheme of things if you want to make a substantial difference. It would be just about enough to cobble together a basic measurement setup (and I mean cobble together, as a UMIK-1 alone tends to retail for over 100€, so it would be either super basic audio interface time or onboard stereo mic input with external phantom power adapter and virtual balanced input enabled in REW time - unless you've got one of these fruity phones, which I kind of doubt).

Examining the existing components:
The speakers looks like basic ported 5" + 1" jobs with something resembling a crossover. At only 4 kg each they might appreciate some additional bracing, but likely a decent starting point. Do you have pictures of where they are placed right now?
The amplifier situation looks serviceable if mid-fi (an LM1036 is something you'd generally expect in a micro stereo or the like). This one is a bit of a question mark. I might look for a decent integrated amp or receiver on the used market.

If you had something like 300-500€ to spend, then that would be quite a different story. You can get really decent sound for the money these days, but there is a lower limit to everything. It's hard enough to find decent PC speakers sub-200€.

 

[ElJaimito]

You can make a system sound good by putting the best speakers in a poor room.

You can't make a system sound good by putting poor speakers in the best room.

So we'll agree to disagree.

We don't disagree on that: except it doesn't matter how good the speakers are, they'll sound terrible in a bad room. You can't separate the room out of the equation - unless you use cans. But his speakers aren't terrible. So look at the room first, then once that's improved, or seen to not need improvement - rare - then get a better amp.

 

[Chromatischism]

We'll still agree to disagree. I believe speakers give a bigger bang.

 

[davmol]

I think you might struggle to find a good integrated at that price point but check ebay etc for any possible bargains. Suggestion was made of the Loxjie A30 which might be the best new that is close to your budget.

If I were in your shoes then I'd pick up an AIYIMA 07 Max directly from the Aiyima store on Ali as it's much cheaper than on Amazon etc (ideally with a 36v or 48v supply). You should still have some cash left over from that, so keep using your bluetooth receiver a little longer while you save up the rest for a Wiim mini, which will give you a really good UI, loads of streaming option, plus a 10 band PEQ. I know it's not integrated but it's all very small and neat and should feel like a big upgrade. I've owned both of these devices and was very pleased with them. Again, look out on ebay and local classifieds for a Wiim going cheap, you might get a bargain.

 

[Joe Smith]

I'd wait until you have a bit more budget to put against the upgrade...I feel you would get only get marginal improvement for 100 euros, unless you scored a very special deal on better/used speakers locally...?

That being said, the WiiM Mini is a great little device, I use for Spotify with my iPhone, it works wonderfully and I've not felt the need to go further up the WiiM family tree. Bought mine refurbished as new for $65.

 

[ElJaimito]

We'll still agree to disagree. I believe speakers give a bigger bang.

Well, that's the trouble with belief. I prefer measurements to establish facts. His speakers are probably not the limiting element, but I don't know - without some measurements!

 

[Chromatischism]

Well, that's the trouble with belief. I prefer measurements to establish facts. His speakers are probably not the limiting element, but I don't know - without some measurements!

My measurements and my experience in multiple rooms are my basis. You will never get an amazing room to sound good with poor speakers.

 

[Lup]

Thanks everyone!

The speakers are placed on a bookshelf and if listening from the couch i'm more or less on a vertex of a equilateral triangle with a side of 2.5m.

My usage is mainly streaming via Bluetooth from Spotify.

I agree that probably the room is the main factor, but I have very limited possibilities to changhe something. Regarding the setup, I thought that the speakers were the shiniest ****** hardware I have, but,again, I have really little knowledge.

Looking to all the comments, it seems that you all agree that changing the amplifier in this price range won't be very effective. So I'm thinking that maybe a better streamer (btw today my reeally bad one died) like a used wiin pro, which have an eq integrated, and try to correct major room issues with it.
What do you think?

 

[AnalogSteph]

The speakers are placed on a bookshelf and if listening from the couch i'm more or less on a vertex of a equilateral triangle with a side of 2.5m.

They're a bit small for that - I'd prefer some 8" or at least sturdy 6.5" class speakers - but again an upgrade is not really happening in your price range. (Looking at the used market can't hurt, mind you.)

So I'm thinking that maybe a better streamer (btw today my reeally bad one died) like a used wiin pro, which have an eq integrated, and try to correct major room issues with it.
What do you think?

Not the worst idea. (Please be sure not to overdrive the amplifier input, which in all likelihood can't take a full 2 Vrms.) The remaining question then is, how would you take measurements to determine what your room issues are?

 

[ElJaimito]

My measurements and my experience in multiple rooms are my basis. You will never get an amazing room to sound good with poor speakers.

This is simply getting silly. I have not at any point made any such statement or implication. I pointed out the simple fact that the room has the most influence on the sound. Good speakers in a bad room will sound bad. Bad speakers in a good room will sound bad. Good speakers in a good room will sound good. Is this hard?

 

[Roland68]

Hello everyone, I'm a complete newbie in both hi-fi (maybe I should say low-fi based on my basic setup) and in this forum, which I find extremely interesting. So please be kind about mistakes!

I have a very basic setup in my living room and I'm definitely not happy about it. I would like to do a step by step improvement, considering the very limited budget. As first step I would like to switch from the actual dac and amplifier to a better integrated amplifier with Bluetooth receiver or wifi. My budget is 100€.

Can you suggest me something better than my actual setup?(I don't have very high expectations based on the budget available, of course, but the best I can get with it). I was looking at SMSL, Fosi or Wiim, or else.

Thanks for the help!

Actual setup:

--> 2 Passive speakers tannoy mercury mx1

Enclosure Type:	2 way bass reflex
Rec Amplifier:	10 - 100 Watts
FQ Response:	55Hz - 20kHz
Sensitivity:	87dB
Impedance:	8 Ohms
Drivers:	1 x 25mm soft dome 1 x 130mm ceramic coated paper cone
Dimensions:	298 x 165 x 220mm (W x H x D)
Weight:	4kg / 8.8lbs
Year:	2000 - 2002

--> FX-AUDIO FX-502E amplifier

TI LM1036 Dual DC Operated Tone/Volume/Balance Circuit

ST microelectronics TDA7498 100-watt + 100-watt dual BTL class-D audio amplifier

TI TL082 or ne532p opamp (not clear from specs)

Impedence: 4-8 ohms
THD: 0.2%
SNR o: 73dB

-->bluetooth receiver esinkin

Qualcom CSR8620 chip

I would recommend that you start with the worst component in your system and then work your way up.
Most people don't know how bad the FX-502E is. The TDA7498 is not exactly transparent and is poorly implemented in the FX-502E. If the 19 volt power supply is included, the power rating is just a joke anyway.

First of all, I would recommend the Fosi V3 (stereo version). If you have been happy with the performance so far, the 32 or 36 volt power supply is completely sufficient. For around $/€ 65 on Aliexpress, it is probably the amplifier with the best price/performance ratio.

To operate it initially, you can use an Apple dongle, or you can sell the FX-502E and look for a WiiM Mini with the increased budget.
This means that you are very well equipped and can adjust your speakers with the 10 band EQ.

 

[Beershaun]

Not sure why more people aren't telling you to add a subwoofer. Before upgrading anything at least get the full range of music in your setup. There is a ton of perceived benefit in having a subwoofer added to your system to give you better low end response. You cross over your mains at 80hz and it removes a lot of the load from your existing amp and speakers. You can also place your subwoofer somewhere else in the room to optimize for low end performance. Don't spend your money on anything else until you have a subwoofer and are hearing all the musical information.

If folks don't believe me just look and Amirs reviews with the speaker preference scores. They all jump up 1+ points when adding a subwoofer. Because smooth low end extension has a large impact on listener preference.