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Advice for 2 channel TV/theatre/music system?

Neddy

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@Blumlein 88 's suggestion is a very good one.
I use both JBL 305s and Kali IN-8s directly connected to my TV's headphone output.
(TV optical output will probably (check this, someone?) not support volume control (mine doesn't) and is why I just use the headphone output.)
Very simple, minimal wiring, and One Remote to Control It All.
The 305s are extremely good, and also can usually also be found even cheaper used.
TV sound is usually already bass 'enhanced', so I find even the 305s don't really need a sub.
You'd also come in well under your budget, leaving financial room for future expansion into surround (also with 305s?).
Best wishes!
 

madbrayniak

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No but he will ship anywhere in the world AFAIK.


A lot less costly for sure, but "much better sound", nope. Anything a 2 channel rig can do, a multich rig can do better.

"Ruins it for the rest"? You seem to be very misguided in these statements..
But the OP asked about stereo on a low budget so no sense in loading this thread with irrelevant info.


I don't want to hijack this thread with the challenges that I face in my space. I'm not as "misguided" as you may think. I would rather only have EQ of the Sub only or only to the Schroder frequency of the room. Now part of the reason I am looking at 2 channel is because I live in a small 950sqft home build in the 1950s. I run 2.1 system right now bec CDause in order to have any surrounds at all I would need to do some in ceiling speakers and when this house was built they did some very intricate plaster work on the ceiling that I don't want to ruin. In-walls would be an option but the placement would be terrible as they would be too close. Plus I can't do that now anyway, trying to plan for an addition which would take out part of the wall behind the couch to add a hallway.

I have heard some stereo HT systems as well that are absolutely phenomenal, one was built by a Datasat designer whom I used to live close to, it was designed around high sensitivity designs that were also designed around constant directivity. Ever since hearing his system I have been working towards CD designs but my space is the issue.
 
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Robbo99999

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@Tom C and @Neddy , is that JBL 305P the same as the LSR305 speakers that @Blumlein 88 was talking about?

I'm wondering how I'd connect it to my TV. I've got Sony Bravia kdl-42w653a, it's got a hybrid Audio Out / Headphone port, and I've checked the menus of the TV and I can select Fixed or Variable if I select that port to be Audio Out rather than Headphone - why is this selectable between Audio Out & Headphone, does it change the impedance or something? What I'm concerned about is that my impression of using a headphone out to hook up to speakers was poor practice (maybe diminishing sound quality), but I've got this option in my TV to select that port as Audio Out....is that good, what's that gonna actually change? Also, if I was to go with this connection setup how would I hook up a subwoofer? I've still got my Sony amplifier with subwoofer connection, I've just checked and plugged in some headphones into the headphone/Audio Out port and it allows me to control volume on that through the TV whilst still outputting from the TV on the Digital Optical Out which is hooked up to my Sony amplifier...so in theory I could just use the Sony amplifier with a subwoofer and use the hybrid Headphone/Audio Out port to route to the JBL 305P's. Does that sound reasonable?

Also, has Amir tested those JBL 305P's? I'll check.


EDIT: yep, Amir tested them already (thanks @TomC for pointing that out in the post below), got great review from Amir!
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...mkii-and-control-1-pro-monitors-review.10811/

Wow, I'm pretty stoked about that, because they're good value too. Now given what I wrote earlier in this post about how I'm envisaging hooking them up to my TV...do you folks see any sound quality or other issues associated with this? And in terms of cabling am I right in thinking I'd need to purchase a 3.5mm plug (TV) to 6.35mm plug (JBL 305P) cable, and the JBL specs are talking about balanced inputs, does that mean I need to by a balanced cable (unsure), and the fact that they're balanced inputs does that have any compatibility concerns with the hybrid Audio Out/Headphone port of my TV? Sorry for all the questions, but I'm fairly new to this field, ha! Oh yeah, and I'd want these speakers at just below ear height after reading the review I think? (so I'd need to buy some stands).
 
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Tom C

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@Tom C and @Neddy , is that JBL 305P the same as the LSR305 speakers that @Blumlein 88 was talking about?

I'm wondering how I'd connect it to my TV. I've got Sony Bravia kdl-42w653a, it's got a hybrid Audio Out / Headphone port, and I've checked the menus of the TV and I can select Fixed or Variable if I select that port to be Audio Out rather than Headphone - why is this selectable between Audio Out & Headphone, does it change the impedance or something? What I'm concerned about is that my impression of using a headphone out to hook up to speakers was poor practice (maybe diminishing sound quality), but I've got this option in my TV to select that port as Audio Out....is that good, what's that gonna actually change? Also, if I was to go with this connection setup how would I hook up a subwoofer? I've still got my Sony amplifier with subwoofer connection, I've just checked and plugged in some headphones into the headphone/Audio Out port and it allows me to control volume on that through the TV whilst still outputting from the TV on the Digital Optical Out which is hooked up to my Sony amplifier...so in theory I could just use the Sony amplifier with a subwoofer and use the hybrid Headphone/Audio Out port to route to the JBL 305P's. Does that sound reasonable?

Also, has Amir tested those JBL 305P's? I'll check.
I gotta get to work, so I don’t have much time right now, but I’ll try and give a couple quick answers.
As far as I know, the 305P is the current production direct replacement for the old LSR series. So, it’s the updated version of pretty much the same speaker mentioned by Blumlein88
And yes, it has been reviewed by Amir. Should be easy to find his review.
 
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Robbo99999

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Thanks Tom C, edited my previous post with a few more questions and some other stuff to reflect what you just told me.
 

TimW

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The TV headphone jack will work fine as long as it's variable. It probably doesn't have great measured performance but it will get the job done. You won't be able to use your Sony system just for the sub because the optical output of your TV is fixed volume. So the volume of your sub and speakers would be different unless you manually matched the volume of your TV and Sony system every time you changed the volume.

A better solution would be to run that variable output from the TV to a subwoofer and then to the Speakers. Some subs have the ability to apply a high pass filter to the output going to the speakers. Some subs even have room correction hardware built in. I would look at subs with these options if you go this route.

I own a couple pairs of the older JBL LSR305 speakers. The 305P are an updated version but are reported to be nearly identical in sound quality. You should be warned that they output a fair amount of hiss when on. This has always bothered me wether I was using them on a desk or in a living room. These speakers have good bass extension and can get pretty loud for what they are. I think you should still consider the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR passive speakers though. Have a look at their review and subsequent preference score.
 

TimW

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Other passive speakers I see recommended all the time for europeans are the Q Acoustics 3020i and the Wharfedale Diamond 220. Links are to reviews with measurements.

If you go the JBL 305P route you might want to pair them with the accompanying JBL LSR310S subwoofer. It can receieve the unbalanced signal from your TV and output a balanced high-pass filtered signal to the 305P's. You won't get room correction with this kind of setup but later you could upgrade to a piece of gear that adds that functionality.
 
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Robbo99999

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Yeah, good point TimW about the difficulty in matching the volume of the sub to the volume of the JBL's if I was to do as I outlined.

Cool, so this whole thing about high pass and subs is new to me...so for connections it would go TV => Sub (with it's high pass filter & passing on the EQ too?) => JBL speakers? If that option exists that's not bad because you get some of that room EQ too, but don't know how good that room EQ can be when it's implemented through the sub, I don't know much about room EQ?

About the hiss you heard from the earlier version of that JBL...I'm thinking that could be EQ'd out by the EQ abilities on the back of the speaker? I'm probably not too sensitive to a little bit of brightness, as my AKG K702 headphones are quite bright at stock and I was fine with those (although I've EQ'd them to the Harman curve and I have to say it's more balanced now as well as being more immersive).

What's your thinking around going with passive speakers and my existing Sony amp? Those Pioneer SP-BS22-LR speakers I can't find them anywhere in the UK. I can see they got a higher preference rating in that doc you linked me (but how's that score created, and by who)? In terms of passive speakers that Amir has tested that are in my price range and performed well (apart from those Pioneers which I can't get in the UK)...I'm thinking there aren't any?

EDIT: seen your second post TimW. Does that mean I can't connect those JBL speakers directly to my TV then because the TV is unbalanced and the JBL's are balanced? How do we know that the TV output from the hybrid Audio Out / Headphone port is unbalanced or balanced? (So how was @Neddy able to connect his headphone out of his TV to his JBL's then?)
 
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Sal1950

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@Sal1950 , I think the HSU Research option is problematical because I would be paying shipping and import duty fees, also that's a 'big' spend all at once when combined with purchase of integrated amp....if I was living in the States then I think this option would be a lot more attractive.
Understood. It would really help if our members would at least enter their county of residence in their profiles. Sad you can't afford US products due to import duties. Exactly what President Trump is trying to correct with tit for tat import regulations. ;)

Now part of the reason I am looking at 2 channel is because I live in a small 950sqft home build in the 1950s.
You live in a mansion, I'm in a 780 sqft modular. LOL
 

TimW

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A headphone or 3.5mm jack is unbalanced, it should be a TRS (Tip, Ring, Sleeve) or in other words 3 conductor connector. One conductor is ground and the other two are positive outputs for the two channels (left and right). A balanced connection has positive and negative connections for each channel plus a ground, so much more conductors. You can connect that unbalanced output from your TV to the balanced input of either the 305P's or the LSR310S sub. There is no issue with this type of connection. But if you were going to go from the TV to the Sub and then from the sub to the 305P's, it just makes sense to use a balanced cable from the sub to the 305P's because you have to buy cables anyway.

The LSR310S does not do room EQ. Room EQ or more specifically Automated Room Correction (ARC) involves measuring the output of your speakers using a microphone at multiple locations. AVR's come with a microphone for this and have an on screen guide to walk you through the process. The AVR then calculates what corrective filters to apply and attempts to make the frequency response of your system in your room flatter.

What the LSR310S does, and what AVR's also do, is apply low-pass and high-pass filters. The sub is sent the signal with a low-pass filter applied so that it only plays low frequencies. This way the sub doesn't play frequencies it isn't capable of and it isn't locatable by ear because low frequencies are omnidirectional. The main speakers are sent the signal with a high-pass filter applied so that they only play high frequencies, or at least not the same low frequencies that the sub plays. By reducing the amount of low frequency content that the mains have to play you also reduce the amount of distortion they produce.

The hiss of the JBL's that I'm referring to has nothing to do with brightness. You don't hear the hiss when music is playing and you can't EQ it out either. The hiss is there when the 305's are on and nothing is playing. It is just noise produced by the built in amplifiers which are directly connected to the woofer and tweeter. The tweeter produces most of this hiss. One thing you need to think about is how you plan to turn the speakers and sub on and off. The JBL's have power switches on their backside. Unless you invest in some sort of automated power switch, you will have to turn each speaker on and off every time you use them. I would not want to leave them on all the time because of the hiss and a bright indicator light on the front of them.
 

laudio

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2 channel makes sense in a non HT room. I'd focus on a good receiver/integrated and some floorstanders if you can fit them in. My tv setup is 2 channel rig - Rotel rx 1052 (probably can be found used in UK at good price) with external DAC from tv. Speakers are rebuilt console with CD wgs no center channel needed. Jbl 580s if you can get them would do fine with you existing receiver too.
 

TimW

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@Robbo99999 here in the US I can go to a pro audio store and compare powered monitors like the JBL 305P to other monitors like the Yamaha HS line and Adam speakers. If there is something like that near you it would be a good opportunity to hear the hiss from these speakers. You could also do some listening but the environment is unlikely to be ideal.

There may also be a Hi-Fi shop near you where you could audition passive speakers from the likes of Q Acoustics, Wharfedale, and KEF probably. The acoustics of that space probably won't match your home but it can at least give you an idea. I feel that these hands on experiences are more useful for evaluating wether you like the look, size, and build quality of the speakers. After all these aren't cheap products and you will be living with them in your home.

I like the idea of using your sony system with a new sub and new passive speakers in the short term. Especially if that means you are willing to up your budget by spreading the cost out over time. Or reduce cost by only buying when you find great deals. But in the long term I would suggest replacing the Sony with an AVR or similar device.
 
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Robbo99999

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Thanks TimW, yep, I think I understand the balanced & unbalanced thing now, and I read the owners manual just now too for the JBL 305p....consumer gear is generally unbalanced so you can just use unbalanced cables to connect from TV to 305's, but if using a balanced output you have to use balanced cables. (Is there a benefit to balanced connections?)

I'm with you on the LSR310S subwoofer and it not doing EQ but doing the filter pass throughs. And I can see what you mean about the hiss of the 305's. How loud is the hiss, is it volume dependant (ie volume knob on back of 305's)? About turning off the 305's manually when I'm not using them, I'm ok with that, more exercise!

I think as a first step I would just get the 305's without a subwoofer, although I'm not committing just yet to buying them. Got a few more questions, may as well bullet point them for easier reading:
  • Do you have any recommendations for cables in terms of length or other quality parameters...I think I'll get the shortest that will fit? I'd have to find a suitable one that goes from x1 3.5mm jack to x2 6.35mm jacks, and thinking it through it would have to have a big split in it that was long enough to cover the distance between the two speakers...have I worked that out right? (I do know it's 3.5mm jack for my TV).
  • My TV (Sony Bravia kdl-42w653a) has a hybrid Audio Out/Headphone 3.5mm port where I can select in the menus for that to be Audio Out (which can still be volume variable) or select to be Headphones (again volume variable).....why the distinction between Audio Out & Headphone...what benefit would that have (I mean I'd run it in Audio Out mode but what difference)?
  • Another connectivity option, would it be possible to connect digital audio out from my TV to the 305's? I'm thinking it wouldn't unless there was some kind of D/A converter box between them (a DAC/amplifier now that I'm thinking about it, lol). But that's more cost and hassle. How much quality am I likely losing by using the analog hybrid Audio Out / Headphone 3.5mm port of my TV?
  • Speaker stands: is there anything important to consider when purchasing these in terms of sound quality/"compatibility"
  • If I was to buy the JBL 305's (and down the line the subwoofer that matches them, LSR310S) would I be able to use those together with an AVR further down the road if I wanted to go say 5.1 with room correction?
Yes, just seen your latest post TimW, there are audio shops in the UK where you can go listen to stuff..might be worth researching where they are and if they stock the products I'm interested in...however I like the Science of Amir's website here so I'm likely to choose products that measure well because otherwise my buying choices would be purely subjective on price/listener reviews/appearance/brand reputation....so the value of listening in store...well I don't want to be swayed by uncontrolled environments or the "pizzazz" that some systems might initially give on a first casual listen when what I'm doing to the best of my ability is to find sound that is neutral and "as intended". However, it would be useful for listening to the hiss on the 305's though. Describe to me that hiss though, how bad is it, what covers it up or doesn't cover it up, from what distance is it audible, is it related to volume knob position on the back of the 305's?
 

Blumlein 88

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@Tom C and @Neddy , is that JBL 305P the same as the LSR305 speakers that @Blumlein 88 was talking about?

I'm wondering how I'd connect it to my TV. I've got Sony Bravia kdl-42w653a, it's got a hybrid Audio Out / Headphone port, and I've checked the menus of the TV and I can select Fixed or Variable if I select that port to be Audio Out rather than Headphone - why is this selectable between Audio Out & Headphone, does it change the impedance or something? What I'm concerned about is that my impression of using a headphone out to hook up to speakers was poor practice (maybe diminishing sound quality), but I've got this option in my TV to select that port as Audio Out....is that good, what's that gonna actually change? Also, if I was to go with this connection setup how would I hook up a subwoofer? I've still got my Sony amplifier with subwoofer connection, I've just checked and plugged in some headphones into the headphone/Audio Out port and it allows me to control volume on that through the TV whilst still outputting from the TV on the Digital Optical Out which is hooked up to my Sony amplifier...so in theory I could just use the Sony amplifier with a subwoofer and use the hybrid Headphone/Audio Out port to route to the JBL 305P's. Does that sound reasonable?

Also, has Amir tested those JBL 305P's? I'll check.


EDIT: yep, Amir tested them already (thanks @TomC for pointing that out in the post below), got great review from Amir!
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...mkii-and-control-1-pro-monitors-review.10811/

Wow, I'm pretty stoked about that, because they're good value too. Now given what I wrote earlier in this post about how I'm envisaging hooking them up to my TV...do you folks see any sound quality or other issues associated with this? And in terms of cabling am I right in thinking I'd need to purchase a 3.5mm plug (TV) to 6.35mm plug (JBL 305P) cable, and the JBL specs are talking about balanced inputs, does that mean I need to by a balanced cable (unsure), and the fact that they're balanced inputs does that have any compatibility concerns with the hybrid Audio Out/Headphone port of my TV? Sorry for all the questions, but I'm fairly new to this field, ha! Oh yeah, and I'd want these speakers at just below ear height after reading the review I think? (so I'd need to buy some stands).
Other posters have answered some of your questions. You can connect from single ended to balanced jacks with adapter cables.

You could use your headphone out. It will depend upon whether it has enough voltage output or not.

About the hiss, there is some, most don't hear it unless 2 meters or closer. For home theater use likely not an issue.

Best way to do a subwoofer is using one with built in crossover. You feed it the main signal, it routes above 80 or 100 hz to the stereo pair of speakers. Some subs have this, some don't. JBL makes a matching LSR310 which does this, but it would blow your budget.

You might notice I mentioned getting a good inexpensive DAC if going stereo. That lets you have enough output for sure for the 305's, control volume remotely and feed it a digital signal probably via Toslink optical.

Now if you plan on the 5 channel route, if you get a 2nd hand AVR with preamp outs, you can feed the up front 305s from it, and power the rear speakers with the AVR. You also have digital audio as well as HDMI video switching built in.
 
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Robbo99999

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@Blumlein 88 , thanks, you answered some of my questions there. Point noted about the inexpensive DAC, but I think I'd let my TV do that as a first step, and I can always get an inexpensive DAC later. And good to know about the 5.1 AVR options to still use the 305's that I might purchase.

Cool, that's it for me for a while tonight, need to cook some food and chill...I'll check back over the next days (or maybe later tonight) to see what other responses might be here....you guys been great, a wealth of knowledge, thanks!!
 

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I second the motion for the old Pioneer stuff... I've heard this one: Pioneer SB SP-23W
Impossible to beat in terms of price performance. But yeah, if it were me, I would probably go Cambridge CXA-81 + Monitor Audio speakers... I see some Silver RS5's on your Ebay. I've heard those and liked them.
 

Neddy

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I think you got your questions answered...but just in case:

I used XLR-RCA converters at the JBL (these are not cables, just XLRs plugs with Female RCA jacks on them), so then just needed a standard RCA - Mini cable to plug into the TV. This approach keeps the 'special cables' pile minimized, and lighter weight:)

Hiss is in the ear of the be-hearer. I can't hear the hiss on either the 305s or Kali IN-8s at more than 2 feet or so, and not at all when playing. YMMV.

One thing I DO like about the Kali's (same designer as the JBLs, BTW) is that they shut down when not 'in use'.
I don't think the latest JBLs have that feature? Not a huge deal, either way. (Kali's IN-8s are in a higher price range, too, though you may want to consider their smaller 305 competitors.)

Also, instead of getting a sub-woofer, consider moving up to the larger JBLs (or Kali's) - the 8" versions are not terribly more expensive, and may eliminate your need for a sub-woofer (or at least postpone it:).

My TV also has the headphone vs. speaker selection; not sure what it changes, though in any event driving a low impedance (headphone) output into a high impedance device (power speakers) is ok electrically anyway.

Regarding room EQ, probably overkill for TV audio - but I'm sure your Sony has a vast variety of tone controls?

The JBL sub (310) is a great idea - you'd just connect it in (depends on the sub) from the sub and then to the JBLs, or just parallel the inputs (Y-cable adaptor). (Just checked - I have a JBL PSW-1000, and oddly it only has RCA inputs, and no pass through, but also speaker level (!) inputs, but also have a Yamaha sub that has RCA inputs and pass-throughs....)

You haven't mentioned if you are going to use a Blueray player or not - if so, I assume you'd just 'HDMI' that to the TV and be done with it.

Regarding adding a DAC - I actually bought a Topping DX3Pro for exactly that purpose, TV Optical -> DAC -> Speakers....it even has a nice remote and BT, etc.
But I found that - FOR TV & these speakers - it didn't sound dramatically better, and now I had to use TWO remotes for TV watching - one for channels, the other for volume/mute. Bleh. Topping went back in its' box to find another use case.

Of course, if you move into surround sound (unless your Sony has multi-channel analog outputs - nope) you'll be looking at least for a HT preamp processor with optical and HDMI inputs (which you could still use small powered speakers with)...and opens up a whole new world of 'cross-fire' and 'confusion'!

Finally, FWIW, I've just been amazed at the performance/value of these powered speakers - though not even close to the 'fidelity' of my large main system, for TV or desktop use they are pretty stunning, and now they are adding more useful features, like Bluetooth, etc.

PS. Final thought - these things don't have grills, so you need to watch out for gefinger-pokenings - an audio buddy of mine found some super cheap fans that came with grill guards that fit my 305s - with a bit of 'plier' love - just perfectly!

IMG_20180309_145442837 LSR 305 Grillz.jpg
 
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Robbo99999

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@Neddy, that's a good idea about getting the 308's to potentially eliminate the need for a subwoofer. On amazon they're on sale and 'only' £36 each more expensive. I might pull the trigger on those....do we know if they're likely to measure as well as the 305's (Amir's review)?

EDIT: I've gone and bought those 308's! They were on sale plus I found some frequency response graphs for the 308's that showed them to be at least as linear as the 305's. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1T9yLUksyFTu8DwtsaUwacoCIpRfmdIzx6vDRPjzfbCg/mobilebasic )
So given that, I think they would be at least as accurate as the 305's except with better bass extension into the lower frequencies - took a bit of a punt given that Amir's not measured them, but all things considered...it made sense to me, plus there was only one 305 available on amazon (I need two, ha!)!

EDIT: crossed out that stuff above because that was referring to the previous version of these speakers, not the 308p Mkii, hopefully it still holds true that there is not much if any negative differences between the 305p Mkii and the 308p Mkii.
 
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Neddy

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I'd imagine they are pretty close to as good, or better?...but the internet is littered with opinions and various mesasurements on them.
They are a goodly bit bigger and so harder to hide, if that's a concern.
I seriously doubt you'd regret buying either of them. :)
 
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