Adventures in speaker shopping

[ta240]

Today we hit a few shops to listen to speakers. As testament to how few shops we have, it was over 3 hours of driving and 160 miles to visit 3.
One was the magnolia hifi in a BestBuy, one was a the last high end shop that is within 100 miles of us. It now mostly specializes in custom installs and the last was a shop that mostly sells vintage equipment and records.

At BestBuy they left us alone, largely it seems because the one guy recognized us as having been there before and seemed to decide we weren't worth wasting time on again. So at least this time we got to run the speaker selector, but their system only has something like 8 songs to choose and their subwoofers weren't even plugged in. The salesman closed the door to the listening room on us after commenting on the sound 'bouncing out there' and I felt like saying "we are listening at a fraction of the volume you demo Sonos speakers at and these are your song choices not ours".
The Kef R5s seemed to be the best they had. The R3s hit some high notes that were a bit too much and the Q5s sounded good until we switched to the R3s and then it was hard going back to the Q5s.
Even with some good things about the R5s, I'm not sure if their systems were set to play without subs because all the speakers seemed to be missing bass so I suspect since they were being powered by a wall of AVRs those were outputting the bass to non-existent subwoofers. So it was a less than stellar experience.

At the local shop we were 'greeted' by a guy sitting at a desk at the other end of the store. When I said we were just starting to shop for speakers and were curious what they had he yelled "Did you bring a picture of your room?". When I replied "No, I hadn't thought of that", we got a flat "well, that would be helpful" and after a pause "I guess I can give you a walking tour of what we have". And then some time passed with no other interaction. Finally he got up and came over to the side of the room with the equipment on it. After I mentioned the Paradigm Founders Series 40s he took us to the room with them. He spent a bit trying to get the app for the Naim streamer amp to work on his phone and gave up and went and got a tablet. He got two songs to play on it and kept turning the volume up quite high. We aren't young, and I can't imagine anything about the way we looked that indicated we like to listen to music that loud. When I'd get him to turn it down they sounded quite good but at the higher volumes I couldn't tell if it was the amp adding distortion or the speakers doing it, but it wasn't pleasant at times. And he kept turning the volume back up.
I asked him if they had any amps in the $1500 range that he'd recommend and I sensed nearly a chuckle from him as he listed off all the $4,000 to $6,000 amps they have. I asked about the Marantz Stereo 70 and he said "Oh, that's a receiver. We have those, they are quite good." I felt a bit like countering with "Well, you were listing off integrated amps not actual amps anyways".

On to the vintage audio store because they listed the Wharfedale Linton Heritage speakers. I spotted a pair in the narrow front room with vintage speakers crowded around them, there were some thin speakers just in front and outside of them to act as excellent early reflection points . In the back room they had another pair of Lintons and some 85th anniversary Dentons along with several other speakers setup nicely along a wall. My wife quickly noticed there were no wires going to any of the speakers. When I asked to hear the Lintons he did some swapping around of connectors in the main room and powered them off a vintage amplifier mounted up fairly high on the wall. And, like the other store, cranked them. Mind you there was only about 4 feet between the speakers and the tall cashiers desk they faced. They had very low chairs sitting there and my wife was sitting in one, cringing a bit from sitting directly in front of one of the speakers. The guy dragged another chair over to between the two speakers and said "there's the sweet spot", then walked away. Sitting in that chair it did truly sound like there was a wall of speakers playing in front of us. However the sound wasn't that great and often bordered on unpleasant at that volume and with the speakers so close (and possibly the source and the song). Once again, I'm not sure what about our look said "Crank it!!!". He had to go behind things and lean over a pile of speakers and receivers to adjust the volume. I wasn't feeling like trying that and he had gone back to looking at something from behind the cashiers desk. So we got up, thanked him and left.

I think we are done speaker shopping for awhile.

 

[Doodski]

That is appalling. Poor merchandising combined with psychological issues and plain old bad manners. I would have walked too. I sold gear for 9 years and I never treated anybody like that even if they looked like homeless street people. People always got a nice demo with lots of selection to compare and a pouch full of discs to choose from if they did not bring their own. I never blasted them unless they asked for that and I almost always left them alone for a few minutes with the music playing and the speaker selector operational and explained so they could test stuff at their leisure. It paid off in spades as I made a decent living being kind, patient and helpful.

 

[Purité Audio]

So very disappointing, I am sorry, I imagine that is the kind of experience that is driving more and more customers to buy multiple pairs online and then return them,
Keith

 

[genesisaudiorack]

So very disappointing, I am sorry, I imagine that is the kind of experience that is driving more and more customers to buy multiple pairs online and then return them,
Keith

not a bad idea if thats your only choice. never thought of that.

 

[wadude]

How can shopping for speakers not be a disaster? The cards are stacked against being able to make a successful decision because the most important part of the equation has necessarily been left at home.

 

[Multicore]

How can shopping for speakers not be a disaster?

It can always at least be well mannered and civilized.

If a shop keeper really prefers to not sell anything why open the door to customers at all?

Of otoh you are in the retail business for profit, be open and make an effort to understand the customer's wants/needs and use your expertise to figure what might ultimately satisfy.

 

[kemmler3D]

not a bad idea if thats your only choice. never thought of that.

Don't do it if you don't absolutely need to, it's expensive for the seller and eventually the retailer will ban you. While I'm all for chipping away at Amazon it's usually a small business that's left holding the bag on there.

 

[Anton S]

That is appalling. Poor merchandising combined with psychological issues and plain old bad manners. I would have walked too. I sold gear for 9 years and I never treated anybody like that even if they looked like homeless street people. People always got a nice demo with lots of selection to compare and a pouch full of discs to choose from if they did not bring their own. I never blasted them unless they asked for that and I almost always left them alone for a few minutes with the music playing and the speaker selector operational and explained so they could test stuff at their leisure. It paid off in spades as I made a decent living being kind, patient and helpful.

Good man! Judging a book by its cover or an individual by his/her appearance can bite one more often than not.

While attending grad school, I worked part time as an audio consultant at a local high-end home entertainment store. It was a free-standing store with lots of full-length windows looking out to a customer parking lot in front.

This was during the heyday of the home audio business, so the store always had multiple consultants on duty at any given time, and we used a rotation system to determine who would assist the next customer. As each of us finished with a customer, he went to the back of the rotation. The guy at the front of the rotation was "up" to assist next customer.

One day, while there were three of us on duty, I was at the back of the rotation when a customer drove up in an old Ford Ranchero pickup. As he got out of his vehicle, we all saw that he looked as if he had just come in off the range - old, worn jeans, snap-front western shirt, and grubby boots that still had some manure caked on them. The guy who was "up" said he was going to pass on this prospect and so did the next one in line, leaving me to assist the man. This was actually forbidden by company policy, but I didn't mind, because I loved demonstrating great equipment to anyone, regardless of the prospect of a sale.

The customer's name was Keith, and he had indeed just come in off the ranch. His ranch, which was actually just one of his hobbies, because he owned a company that bought distressed shopping centers all over the world, renovated them, and then sold them for a tidy profit. He bought quite a lot of equipment from me that day for an enormous amount of money, and I ended up with the highest sales figures for the month, even though I was just a part-timer.

Keith returned multiple times after that day for more equipment, including a system for his "workshop", which was inside a multi-bay garage, two of which were equipped with vehicle lifts, and one with a mechanics pit. The other two consultants were always bitter every time Keith returned for something new, but they hopefully learned something from their mistakes.

 

[Multicore]

but I didn't mind, because I loved demonstrating great equipment to anyone, regardless of the prospect of a sale.

That's the way to do it: have real enthusiasm for the product. Around 20 years ago when my wife was working in the bottle shop across from here one day I took her some dinner and sold someone the most expensive bottle of whisky they had. I never even worked for that shop!

 

[Doodski]

Good man! Judging a book by its cover or an individual by his/her appearance can bite one more often than not.

While attending grad school, I worked part time as an audio consultant at a local high-end home entertainment store. It was a free-standing store with lots of full-length windows looking out to a customer parking lot in front.

This was during the heyday of the home audio business, so the store always had multiple consultants on duty at any given time, and we used a rotation system to determine who would assist the next customer. As each of us finished with a customer, he went to the back of the rotation. The guy at the front of the rotation was "up" to assist next customer.

One day, while there were three of us on duty, I was at the back of the rotation when a customer drove up in an old Ford Ranchero pickup. As he got out of his vehicle, we all saw that he looked as if he had just come in off the range - old, worn jeans, snap-front western shirt, and grubby boots that still had some manure caked on them. The guy who was "up" said he was going to pass on this prospect and so did the next one in line, leaving me to assist the man. This was actually forbidden by company policy, but I didn't mind, because I loved demonstrating great equipment to anyone, regardless of the prospect of a sale.

The customer's name was Keith, and he had indeed just come in off the ranch. His ranch, which was actually just one of his hobbies, because he owned a company that bought distressed shopping centers all over the world, renovated them, and then sold them for a tidy profit. He bought quite a lot of equipment from me that day for an enormous amount of money, and I ended up with the highest sales figures for the month, even though I was just a part-timer.

Keith returned multiple times after that day for more equipment, including a system for his "workshop", which was inside a multi-bay garage, two of which were equipped with vehicle lifts, and one with a mechanics pit. The other two consultants were always bitter every time Keith returned for something new, but they hopefully learned something from their mistakes.

LoL... Too funny. I had a couple come in one weekend and it was a super sale and they said it was too busy for them and they wanted to have more of my time and so they said they would be back. They looked like a average commoner couple and they did come back. They bought a full AV system with JBL towers, big Yamaha receiver, CD player, tape deck, stands and wire etc. It was a big deal. As it turned out they owned a mall management company and managed malls all over Canada. They offered me a possible future in management and I turned it down but wow what a great deal and I'm so happy I took them under my wing and gave them kindness and the reality of the stuff and they saw that and decided to deal with me. I've had many people look like bums, weirdoes, technically obsessed and whatever else one can experience over 9 years and I sold many of them great gear. It pays off in spades to give demos to casual walkers that meander in the door because several months to even years later they come back and buy.

 

[ta240]

It is extra frustrating because there aren't any other choices beyond those places to listen to speakers short of spending 6+ hours driving.

I wish there was somewhere that had the Revel Concerta2 F36 within reasonable driving distance. I'm really tempted by them but buying without ever hearing them makes me seriously nervous.

 

[Anton S]

It is extra frustrating because there aren't any other choices beyond those places to listen to speakers short of spending 6+ hours driving.

I wish there was somewhere that had the Revel Concerta2 F36 within reasonable driving distance. I'm really tempted by them but buying without ever hearing them makes me seriously nervous.

Yes, it's regrettable that so many brick-and-mortar retailers went the way of the dodo. Even as far back as ten years ago, when I bought my last new pair of speakers, I was forced to order them over the Internet, because I was unable to hear a pair locally. And I felt "fairly" comfortable doing that only because I had a white paper in hand that contained a healthy dose of detailed technical information and graphs (in addition to the usual marketing propaganda), as well as copies of the Canadian NRC plots for the model's response, distortion, impedance, and phase. Been delighted with them ever since. In fact, they have worked so well in my space, both sonically and aesthetically, that I bought a second pair to replace the JBL's I had been running for system's surrounds. That model had been discontinued by then, so I was forced to buy used, but in absolutely mint condition with all accessories, cartons, and documentation.

 

[wadude]

I'm glad for the reviews of speakers here. It helps that measurements are becoming clearer. I'm leery of buying speakers because I still like the ones I have, but improvements made up stream are hinting that new speakers are on the list. No hurry though.
I'd been curious about the Lintons and finally heard them in similar surroundings as described by the OP. From the description of the shop and owner, it may have even been the same shop! If it is, I actually liked the guy's approach. I dislike fawning and he was really hands off. I was able to determine that they went low, loud and seemed balanced overall but beyond that it would require buying a pair and listening in the room. I'm not from the area and the shop doesn't ship, but if I do buy a pair I will buy from him.

ta240, message if you'd like to compare notes

 

[ta240]

I generally don't like the fawning or the 'new best friend' salesperson, but if the controls aren't easily accessible then I'd prefer a couple questions before the crank it and leave demo. Going loud isn't one of my criteria so that was a less useful part of the demo for me. And since that was basically the entire demo....

 

[Petrushka]

That is appalling. Poor merchandising combined with psychological issues and plain old bad manners. I would have walked too. I sold gear for 9 years and I never treated anybody like that even if they looked like homeless street people. People always got a nice demo with lots of selection to compare and a pouch full of discs to choose from if they did not bring their own. I never blasted them unless they asked for that and I almost always left them alone for a few minutes with the music playing and the speaker selector operational and explained so they could test stuff at their leisure. It paid off in spades as I made a decent living being kind, patient and helpful.

I did counter sales of darkroom equipment as my first real job. I treated everyone the same, just for practice. You have to be really busy not to do a good demo. What else is so important?

 

[Anton S]

I doubt anyone enjoys overbearing or obsequious salespeople. The ones I've always considered the best are neither. They conduct themselves as consultants and consider themselves professional advisors, rather than someone hawking goods, which isn't easy if their incomes are commission-based. The best also won't promote a particular product just because the company is paying extra incentives for selling it (a regular practice in most retail businesses), which would put more money in their pockets than selling a competing product. Instead they focus on best satisfying each customer's needs within the stated budget, and maybe a little above (to establish the factual cost ceiling). And, most of all, they remain attentive from a suitable distance and happy to offer any needed assistance and to answer questions.

 

[wadude]

The folks in the shops I frequented in the days of yore were genuine people, enthusiasts themselves, and some were friends outside the shop. I miss those days!
Same with musical instrument stores, and record stores. Times have certainly changed.

 

[Ropeburn]

Stories like these are the exact reason physical hifi shops are struggling everywhere. Not saying there aren't good ones with competent personnel - there are - but above examples are far too frequent.

Why would you go through that hassle, if you can (ab)use shipping and return policies instead? That's a hassle sometimes too, but at least you spend the eventual return shipping on testing in your own home and listening room, instead of gas money. Might even pay a lower price in online shops, so it evens out.

 

[Anton S]

Stories like these are the exact reason physical hifi shops are struggling everywhere. Not saying there aren't good ones with competent personnel - there are - but above examples are far too frequent.

Why would you go through that hassle, if you can (ab)use shipping and return policies instead? That's a hassle sometimes too, but at least you spend the eventual return shipping on testing in your own home and listening room, instead of gas money. Might even pay a lower price in online shops, so it evens out.

Not just hifi shops - everywhere else too. Haven't you noticed?

 

[ta240]

Stories like these are the exact reason physical hifi shops are struggling everywhere. Not saying there aren't good ones with competent personnel - there are - but above examples are far too frequent.

Why would you go through that hassle, if you can (ab)use shipping and return policies instead? That's a hassle sometimes too, but at least you spend the eventual return shipping on testing in your own home and listening room, instead of gas money. Might even pay a lower price in online shops, so it evens out.

True on the gas money, and I'd love to have my Saturday back. I didn't even listen to music for 3 days after that.
Having been in the online business I can't escape feeling bad buying stuff that I'm likely to return.