Adding more expensive capacitors, resistors , etc make the speaker sound better.

[scottybgood]

Hi,

Would it be worth it to make a better version of this crossover for my Atlantic Technology 250.1 Left/Right speakers. Here is a picture of my crossover.

I was thinking about buying the materials from partsexpress or meniscusaudio.

The existing materials on the board

Resistors

5 W 2 ohm J
5 w 8 ohm J
10 W 2 ohm J
10 W 4 ohm J

Coils

2 MH
8 MH

Capacitors

6.8 K 100 VCMC
6.0 K 100 VCMC
8.0K 100 VCMC


Here is the specs

 

[Doodski]

<<< Awaits the speaker gurus.

 

[fpitas]

Polypropylene is a premium cap. Those look like the industrial version, which in my mind is superior to audio grade garbage. Nobody has ever shown that the sand cast wirewounds are bad, either. Nelson Pass uses them, for example. I think you're fine just how you are.

 

[AudiOhm]

Are you hoping for a better opinion on ASR?
AVS Forum

Expensive is not always better...

Ohms

 

[Keith_W]

More expensive parts means you get lower tolerances, better build quality, and better reliability. These are the only 3 ways it can affect the sound. Lower tolerance probably won't affect your sound much, unless you have a large number of out of tolerance parts, and then the tolerances start to add up. But even then it's miniscule. As for reliability ... well, if your component fails that will definitely affect the sound

I am not sure if you have heard of the capacitor plague. This was caused by a large batch of capacitors with faulty electrolyte composition causing corrosion and rupturing of the capacitor, causing hundreds of millions worth of dollars in economic damage. That appears to be a one off, but it is a reminder that different factories have different manufacturing standards. Substandard parts can fail over time.

(Edit) BTW, in another thread there was a speaker designer (forgot his name, sorry) who reminded us that heat build-up in voice coils and passive crossovers change their performance and therefore can change the transfer function when it is hot. Hopefully he sees this thread and pops in to advise you.

 

[fpitas]

Are you hoping for a better opinion on ASR?
AVS Forum

Expensive is not always better...

Ohms

He may want to fiddle around. Unfortunately for him, that crossover looks like someone knew what they were doing.

 

[fpitas]

More expensive parts means you get lower tolerances, better build quality, and better reliability. These are the only 3 ways it can affect the sound. Lower tolerance probably won't affect your sound much, unless you have a large number of out of tolerance parts, and then the tolerances start to add up. But even then it's miniscule. As for reliability ... well, if your component fails that will definitely affect the sound

I am not sure if you have heard of the capacitor plague. This was caused by a large batch of capacitors with faulty electrolyte composition causing corrosion and rupturing of the capacitor, causing hundreds of millions worth of dollars in economic damage.

I think he's safe; those are polypropylene film caps.

 

[kemmler3D]

I'm basically a zero at electronics, but AFAIK you can improve sound mostly when the components actually perform closer to their rated values. In other words, if you know that you can get closer to spec by replacing components, it may be worth it.

Replacing with fancier components will only help if they are closer to spec, fanciness and price are not terms in electronics equations.

 

[AudiOhm]

He may want to fiddle around. Unfortunately for him, that crossover looks like someone knew what they were doing.

Yes, the crossover looks fine to me.

The Op must be lurking on sites that have claims with no evidence of sound improvement compared to cost...

Ohms

 

[jae]

Capacitor upgrade in crossover - Is it audible?

As the topics "capacitor upgrade" and therefore "capacitor sound" is very controversial, the test method and its results are explained in detail. This cannot be dealt with in one minute. Sorry for this and I hope your attention span is still sufficient to read through a long text - whereby the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[scottybgood]

ok got it. Not worth it to me. I might just paint the inside of the cabinet with the Duratex Paint to see if that might help.

I was thinking about changing out the stock speakers with something else , but I am having a hard time finding a perfect match up to the existing cutout .

I just wanted to tinker around with the speaker.

 

[Doodski]

ok got it. Not worth it to me. I might just paint the inside of the cabinet with the Duratex Paint to see if that might help.

I was thinking about changing out the stock speakers with something else , but I am having a hard time finding a perfect match up to the existing cutout .

I just wanted to tinker around with the speaker.

Are you using EQ/PEQ?

 

[fpitas]

ok got it. Not worth it to me. I might just paint the inside of the cabinet with the Duratex Paint

Some braces are never a bad thing. They don't need to be fancy or expensive, I've used MDF sticks and scrap plywood sticks about 3/4" wide. One easy fix is directly between opposing walls. If you want fancier, run some to box corners from there. A blob of polyurethane construction adhesive holds them.

 

[AudiOhm]

ok got it. Not worth it to me. I might just paint the inside of the cabinet with the Duratex Paint to see if that might help.

I was thinking about changing out the stock speakers with something else , but I am having a hard time finding a perfect match up to the existing cutout .

I just wanted to tinker around with the speaker.

If you are looking for better speakers purchase them, don't try to modify a set if you have no knowledge of speaker design.

Driver, crossover parts and a box do not make a speaker, the correct components and design do.

Trial and error can be costly...You mention might help, help what?

Ohms

 

[AwesomeSauce2015]

ok got it. Not worth it to me. I might just paint the inside of the cabinet with the Duratex Paint to see if that might help.

I was thinking about changing out the stock speakers with something else , but I am having a hard time finding a perfect match up to the existing cutout .

I just wanted to tinker around with the speaker.

I'd say unless the cabinet really sucks, chances are you won't drastically improve anything without adding braces / damping material.
Changing out the stock drivers is a bad idea, since you would significantly alter the driver-enclosure system, probably with bad results.
Messing with the stock crossover is a waste in my opinion - The only real improvement to a competently-designed crossover is DSP + EQ.

In my opinion, if you want better sound, get better speakers. After looking at the speaker system you have, I can say there really isn't much potential in the enclosures or drivers. In order to get a large improvement, you would have to basically redesign the whole thing, which would be less economical than starting from scratch.

If you have a low budget, I would recommend looking at the KEF Q150, the JBL Studio 530/520C, etc. If your budget is higher than the Q350, or one of the towers in the JBL Studio 5XX line. After you get good speakers, then you'll want a good subwoofer or 2. There really is only 1 answer there, SVS. After you have a good speaker system and a good subwoofer, then look into getting a good receiver / amp to power them.

 

[Rick Sykora]

First of all, you really cannot trust your ears tbh. Stereophile did a review of these and offers some baseline measurements. The cabinets are fairly small so bracing or dampening are less likely to have positive results. Would not do anything without some diagnosis...

Would start by measuring each speaker and see how they are performing. This can be done by following the directions on this thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ents-spinoramas-with-rew-and-vituixcad.21860/

If you really think you want to get really serious, then look this one over: https://kimmosaunisto.net/Software/VituixCAD/VituixCAD_Measurement_REW.pdf

The first part of the second link shows how to make an impedance measurement of the speaker. With minimal investment, this could give you an idea of how consistently the speakers are performing and whether there are major resonances affecting the sound. You may simply find there is not much to (inexpensively) improve. If so, you can save a bunch of effort by NOT chasing problems that are marginal or simply do not exist. Small mods to an existing design can serve as a good learning opp. However, if you are not prepared to invest the time and money to do correctly, then you are better off spending your money on replacement speakers.

 

[MAB]

Hi,

Would it be worth it to make a better version of this crossover for my Atlantic Technology 250.1 Left/Right speakers. Here is a picture of my crossover.

I was thinking about buying the materials from partsexpress or meniscusaudio.

The existing materials on the board

Resistors

5 W 2 ohm J
5 w 8 ohm J
10 W 2 ohm J
10 W 4 ohm J

Coils

2 MH
8 MH

Capacitors

6.8 K 100 VCMC
6.0 K 100 VCMC
8.0K 100 VCMC


Here is the specs

View attachment 277382View attachment 277383

This is explicitly covered by an ASR member in a mini-series of tests:
Capacitor upgrade in crossover - Is it audible?
Capacitor upgrade - part two
Capacitor upgrade - part three
Replace resistor by low-inductance resistor - Is it audible?
Different Binding Posts - is it audible?
The answer is no, unless the new component has a different value. For instance, swapping iron-core for air-core inductors results in a measurable change in the ESR of the circuit. In which case it will have a different response. People who hear a change at best are hearing the changes in DC resistance of the inductor, and the resulting speaker response change. Is it a positive change? No idea, it's random unless you intended to insert a different DCR component... Some things like passive notch filters need specific values so going to beefy inductors or going iron to air core is going to change the notch. Likely the changes are so small they are swamped by all the other factors. If you really want to spend some money, I recommend getting new speakers, or building your own, or building your own with active crossovers.

 

[valerianf]

If you wants to stay with a passive crossover you can also improve/change the design of the existing one using DATS, Virtuixcad and REW software.
It will take time and you will have to learn some theory about the crossover design.
Keeping the same crossover and changing the components will only make an improvement if one component is faulty.

 

[Speedskater]

When a loudspeaker designer voices a loudspeaker, part of that voicing includes the imperfections of the crossover components. There is no reason to think that close tolerance parts are better than the parts chosen. Voicing is not a math exercise. Using other types of coils and capacitors may change the voicing.

 

[maty]

YES.

But the problem is the Atlantic speaker. Better idea a new crossover design or new speakers if you use to listen to good recordings (music). With films + AVR (DSP), the original crossover is OK.

Atlantic Technology System 250 home theater loudspeaker system Measurements

Sidebar: Measurements

www.stereophile.com

Agggggggggg

I would not spend a penny trying to improve them. It is more logical to buy others after the appropriate investigation.