Adding a 10-band PEQ to a DAC - What is holding manufacturers back?

[Music1969]

Is it too difficult?

Nope - Merging Anubis supports 12 bands PEQ per channel. 84 bands total.

Its been out for a few years now.

 

[Geert]

Can we agree on a deadline for the implementation of eq in DAC's, and from that moment on rate all DAC's without this feature as 'poor' ? It's 2023..., a Yamaha SPX90 effects processor could do parametric eq in 1985! It had less processing power than a modern door bell.

 

[BeerBear]

And here's what a SoundBlaster from the 1990s can do, with the onboard DSP chip and a custom driver:


AFAIK the KX Project driver was almost entirely coded by some Russian guy in his spare time, with some other guys who wrote some FX plugins. And it still works in newer Windows versions (here's a video). You can probably find one of those compatible soundcards for free at your local landfill, but they need a PCI slot to work.

This is just to say that you don't need expensive high tech DSP hardware or a multi-million dollar developer team for this stuff.

 

[Jeromeof]

A Raspberry PI Zero has easily enough processing power for a full DSP engine and costs about $10 - to manufacturers a similar ARM CPU would be < $1 - I hear the excuse that its the software that is the bottleneck and hardware companies are not good at software which is probably true but I think that is getting better (look at Wiim / LinkPlay) and some DSP engines are now open source and run on ARM already - though some of the best ones like camilladsp have GNU licences which would definitely put off some manufacturers.

 

[Tangband]

Sony could do a 3-band one in 1989.

What is it that seems to make a proper stereo DAC with just 7 more bands too much to ask for in 2022?

No software interface required, a simple screen and a couple of front panel controls would do. Even be preferred actually.

Is it too difficult? Too niche? Both? Something else?

Probably because the market ( customers ) are more interested in bluetooth and the latest flavour of the month dac chips.

A good eq that dont worsening the sound is not doable in the low pricerange ( WiiM pro is an example ) .

With that said - a dac should have a preamp with good volumeregulation, a 10 band eq with variable peq and an active dsp crossover .
Minidsp flex is almost there.

 

[pkane]

I had two of these in series using digital-only mode, connected by Toslink, for a total of a 20 point PEQ ten years ago:

https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0146
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/quick-measurements-of-behringer-ultracurve-deq2496.11382

Both units purchased used for a total of $200

 

[Rednaxela]

I had two of these in series using digital-only mode, connected by Toslink, for a total of a 20 point PEQ ten years ago:

https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0146
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/quick-measurements-of-behringer-ultracurve-deq2496.11382

Both units purchased used for a total of $200

They're brilliant. I'm using one myself too at the moment, digital in digital out. They're a great example of how to effectively offer a 10 band PEQ in a fully self-contained unit. And it's been around for 20 years, and cheap as chips.

Now if that could be added to the modern DACs we see so many of these days. With multiple inputs, remote control, volume control, bit nicer looking, and 2023 D/A conversion performance.





(Which is not entirely what RME offers, although it does get close.)

 

[mglobe]

Probably because the market ( customers ) are more interested in bluetooth and the latest flavour of the month dac chips.

A good eq that dont worsening the sound is not doable in the low pricerange ( WiiM pro is an example ) .

With that said - a dac should have a preamp with good volumeregulation, a 10 band eq with variable peq and an active dsp crossover .
Minidsp flex is almost there.

What do you feel the flex is missing? In terms of switching between multiple digital, and one analog input, it can act as a pre. There’s volume regulation that works well. I don’t remember if it is a full 10 bands for eq, but I think it is. You can do crossovers to integrate subs, and there is a Dirac option. Am I missing something?

 

[Rednaxela]

Nope - Merging Anubis supports 12 bands PEQ per channel. 84 bands total.

Its been out for a few years now.

Thanks. Though for £2,280.00, at least something must have been difficult about it.

Is it entirely self-contained?

 

[Music1969]

Thanks. Though for £2,280.00, at least something must have been difficult about it.

Is it entirely self-contained?

Check out the user manual. It is a Swiss Army Knife

https://www.merging.com/uploads/assets/Installers/Firmware/MERGING+ANUBIS%20User%20Manual.pdf

Ravenna network audio input too. Advanced stuff.

Big name in Pro Audio recording but no reason why can't be used at home. Good headphone amp built in

Look at what is top left of the desk

 

[Music1969]

Though for £2,280.00, at

And you have have Googled the wrong model

 

[Keerati]

Because the expertise required to build a DAC is very very different from the expertise to build a software capable of manipulating audio.

There are only three companies I'm aware of that make DACs with digital processing. That's RME, Qudelix and MiniDSP. It baffles me that Qudelix is a one person business, just imagine how much effort went into making the Qudelix 5K from scratch. RME is a multi-million dollar companty and MiniDSP was founded on that niche (DACs with EQ) so they make sense.

I would like to add Fiio to this list. Their K7 & K9 DAC/headphone amp series have parametric eq function (through Fiio mobile app). Fiio K7 bt cost ~$250.

I just recheck. Fiio PEQ works only on Bluetooth input.

 

[Keerati]

By the way, if you look at car amplifiers, DSP is quite common feature. DSP is a necessity for a proper car audio installation. For car audio, you don't usually have a proper speaker, you normally have woofers & tweeters that you need to tune by yourself.

I have this unit in my car that cost ~$180.

Nakamichi NDS4835AU

PRODUCT TECHNICAL DATA Product Data Dynamic Range(RCA Input) ≥100dB S/N(RCA Input) ≥90dB THD ≤0.05% Frequency Response 20Hz~20 KHz Input Impedance Low level:20KΩ;High level :51Ω Low Level Output Impedance 51Ω Signal Input Range RCA :5.5Vpp;High level:26Vpp Power DC 9V~16V REM Input High level...

nakamichicaraudio.com

It is a DAC/Amp with Bluetooth and DSP (8 Channels low level,4 CH×50W power). Yes, their DSP support PEQ function.