Add subwoofer to Genelec 8020 or get larger speakers?

[Jarick]

I've been using Genelec 8020 speakers for a couple years now in my home office for listening to music and hobby music production. In general I like the detail they provide in the mids and highs, and they seem to have fewer issues with my room than other speakers. However they do lack low end, both from the small driver size and room interaction, and can sound a bit boxy.

I tried a couple different sets of larger budget speakers, including Yamaha HS8's and Focal Alpha Evo 50's to compare. The larger speakers definitely have a fuller low end but don't have the same accuracy in the midrange as the Genelecs. I also have the speakers fairly close to me (about 3 feet) and have the speakers fairly close to a wall (about a foot), so the large speakers don't work as well with this setup.

I don't need a ton of bass but I hear good things about adding a subwoofer to the smaller Genelecs.

1. Are Genelec subs worth it if you aren't using GLM? Or could I go with a different less expensive subwoofer like the Yamaha HS8S?

2. Would it be better to sell the 8020's and upgrade to larger speakers? I've looked at 8030's which seem to have a good bit more extension, the Adam A7V's which have DSP correction, or the iLoud Precision 5/6 which also have DSP.

 

[PusBesar]

Yamaha HS8S

How about Kali WS-6.2?

 

[KoDo]

However they do lack low end, both from the small driver size and room interaction, and can sound a bit boxy.

If one of your problem is room interaction I think subwoofer and EQ is way to go.
If you have dips in 40-120 Hz range, none of bigger speakers placed in the same spot will help - only well placed subwoofer with equalisation will.

In my opinion Genelecs subwofers are good with GLM (so only 7350 and above) for the easy and seamless integration. Without GLM, any decent subwoofer will be a good option - I would try SVS 3000 micro and mini DSP flex with dirac.

 

[AnalogSteph]

My vote: Both!

If going for a less expensive sub covers upgrading to 8030Cs (which are kind of a sweet spot in their lineup and also have better dispersion than the 8020s), by all means. The lesser Genelec subs don't have DSP anyway.

 

[Jarick]

I should add I have the IK Arc studio which does room correction and lets me see the frequency response. Thats helped me dial in positioning. I’ve also built some acoustic panels but it wasn’t a huge help in the low end. I need to do more treatment.

The 8020s are flatter in the mids but with my room extends down to about 150 hz before room oddities take over and all the bass drops out. That’s where I’m thinking a sub could help with positioning and crossover, to get a flatter sound down there. But 150 seems high to cross over a sub.

The HS8s can hit as low as 40 hz but again there’s dips and valleys from there up to 150. And then the mids are a lot more uneven. You can hear there’s a lot more low end depth though.

Lastly not sure if it’s worth adding a $1000 sub for just a little low end reinforcement. I usually listen around 75 db and occasionally just over 80.

 

[Ellebob]

I'll second the Kali WS-6.2.

 

[Marc v E]

I should add I have the IK Arc studio which does room correction and lets me see the frequency response. Thats helped me dial in positioning. I’ve also built some acoustic panels but it wasn’t a huge help in the low end. I need to do more treatment.

The 8020s are flatter in the mids but with my room extends down to about 150 hz before room oddities take over and all the bass drops out. That’s where I’m thinking a sub could help with positioning and crossover, to get a flatter sound down there. But 150 seems high to cross over a sub.

The HS8s can hit as low as 40 hz but again there’s dips and valleys from there up to 150. And then the mids are a lot more uneven. You can hear there’s a lot more low end depth though.

Lastly not sure if it’s worth adding a $1000 sub for just a little low end reinforcement. I usually listen around 75 db and occasionally just over 80.

I own the 8030 and could suggest another possibility. Imo and experience if you like the Genelec sound signature you should probably stick to Genelec monitors. Using a sub is probably the best suggestion overall and something to aim for in the future. However, having heard the 8040, I thought their low frequency entension is a definitive step above the 8030. Especially with drums I could hear a major upgrade.

So summorising I would suggest listening to the Genelec 8040 and using eq. Then if future funds allow, getting a sub.

Btw I love the 8030 but I'm not so confident they would be a major upgrade over the 8020 where bass is concerned.

 

[Kyle_PL]

Genelec 7350A + Genelec 8320A will have better bass extension, than even Genelec 8350A (without sub). So go with sub, BUT the problem with sub, is correct setting (delays between monitors and sub, volume sub vs monitors, split point between sub and monitors). So Genelec GLM is the only solution (for Genelec monitors) to do this good (Genelec 8320A + Genelec 7350A + Genelec GLM set).

Otherwise You should go witch other "hardware calibration" solution (hardware calibrated Ik multimedia monitors or Neumann KH80 DSP+Neumann KH 750 DSP+Neumann MA1).

OK there is one other way: Your Genelec 8020 + Genelec 7050 + IK multimedia ARC STUDIO hardware calibrator - this shoud work.

 

[Jarick]

I decided to roll the dice and order a pair of the iLoud Precision 5 speakers a few days ago, and those should be in tomorrow hopefully.

On paper, these speakers should be flat down to about 40 Hz so they perform closer to a 7" monitor. I only listen at lower volumes about 3 feet away from the speakers so I don't need the SPL's of a big monitor or subwoofer. They also have built in room correction as well which would eliminate the ARC Studio and some latency/conversion.

I also do like the size...I have Yamaha HS8's that I sometimes use as they sound really big compared to the little Genelecs, but they are massive and hard to place around my desk. Obviously they are way too big and heavy to sit on my desk itself, but even putting them on stands because of how big the heatsink is, it pushes my desk a few feet off the wall.

Tipping factor for me was the price. These launched at $1800 per pair but were marked down to $1200 per pair, plus another $200 off as I got "open box" ones. That's half the price of the Genelec, Neumann, and Adam DSP monitors I was looking at and the same price as adding a Genelec sub to the 8020's. Figured it was work trying these before trying to move my budget north of $2k.

 

[Kyle_PL]

I only listen at lower volumes(...) so I don't need the SPL's of a big monitor or subwoofer.

There is not SPL thing only, but bass extension in the first place. I have tested many songs of popular music, and I observed, that the vast majority of them, going down not deeper than 37Hz. So its good, that system should go dawn at least to 37Hz without noticable SPL drop (max -2dB or less). Of course there are also songs go below 30Hz, but they are "white ravens".

Ik Multimedia iloud 5 are flat down to 46Hz (+-1dB), and at 39Hz they have 4dB drop. BUT ... room "bump" at bottom could extend this, and after calibration should be little deeper, thanks to "room bump" (wall behind monitors), without boosted bass over average SPL.

It will be interesting, how they will work in Your room after calibration

 

[Jarick]

There is not SPL thing only, but bass extension in the first place. I have tested many songs of popular music, and I observed, that the vast majority of them, going down not deeper than 37Hz. So its good, that system should go dawn at least to 37Hz without noticable SPL drop (max -2dB or less). Of course there are also songs go below 30Hz, but they are "white ravens".

Ik Multimedia iloud 5 are flat down to 46Hz (+-1dB), and at 39Hz they have 4dB drop. BUT ... room "bump" at bottom could extend this, and after calibration should be little deeper, thanks to "room bump" (wall behind monitors), without boosted bass over average SPL.

It will be interesting, how they will work in Your room after calibration

I do hear with the Yamaha HS8 there's a good amount of sub bass. But my room is only mildly treated so there's big bass peaks and dips. Correction to this point only helps a little bit when looking at the graphs, but listening it cleans up the bass so it sounds cleaner and deeper.

iLoud says that all of the Precision speakers are -4 dB at 36 Hz, so my guess is they are doing some DSP internally to flatten the response and maybe boost up the lows on the smaller ones. Will be interesting to hear in the room!

 

[Pearljam5000]

I decided to roll the dice and order a pair of the iLoud Precision 5 speakers a few days ago, and those should be in tomorrow hopefully.

On paper, these speakers should be flat down to about 40 Hz so they perform closer to a 7" monitor. I only listen at lower volumes about 3 feet away from the speakers so I don't need the SPL's of a big monitor or subwoofer. They also have built in room correction as well which would eliminate the ARC Studio and some latency/conversion.

I also do like the size...I have Yamaha HS8's that I sometimes use as they sound really big compared to the little Genelecs, but they are massive and hard to place around my desk. Obviously they are way too big and heavy to sit on my desk itself, but even putting them on stands because of how big the heatsink is, it pushes my desk a few feet off the wall.

Tipping factor for me was the price. These launched at $1800 per pair but were marked down to $1200 per pair, plus another $200 off as I got "open box" ones. That's half the price of the Genelec, Neumann, and Adam DSP monitors I was looking at and the same price as adding a Genelec sub to the 8020's. Figured it was work trying these before trying to move my budget north of $2k.

How do they compare to the Genelecs?

 

[Jarick]

How do they compare to the Genelecs?

Honestly, they kind of blow them away, along with every other speaker I've had.

Out of the box they seemed a bit bright and had a surprisingly big deep bass to them, especially for a 5" woofer. It was the same "holy crap that's got bass" moment as when I set up my Yamaha HS8's although those are twice the size. So extended high end and plenty of lows but there wasn't a scoop in the midrange like a lot of the affordable studio monitors.

After I ran the room correction, the big bass tightened up, the midrange got a little clearer, and the treble got more extended. According to the app, I had big bass peaks and valleys before correction below 200 Hz (no surprise as I've seen this on every measurement with every speaker), so that's where it focused a lot of correction. There was mild correction in the mids, maybe 1-2 dB here and there. And then the before treble seemed to roll off at 12k or so and then that was extended closer to flat.

Either way, the Preceisions have more clarity than both the Yamahas and Genelecs. The Yamaha soundstage is blurry and indistinct, the Genelecs are more focused with better imaging, and then the Precisions are another step above with this really wide soundstage and easy to hear everything in the mix exactly where it's panned. It's like putting on a pair of headphones.

Speaking of which, out of the box the Precision 5's sounded a lot like my Sennheiser HD600 headphones but with more bass. After correction, there's more high end and less of the forward vocal mids than the HD600s. But that's a pretty good sign to me.

I don't have any experience with high end speakers so I can't really compare to anything with a serious budget. I'm not sure how "musical" they are, but specifically for reference monitor use they seem ideal. There aren't any obvious frequencies missing or over-exaggerated to me, they are revealing, and the panning is very precise.

For reference: speakers I've tried in the last several years: Genelec 8020, Genelec 8010, Yamaha HS8, Focal Alpha Evo 50, Adam T5V, JBL LSR305, JBL LSR306, and iLoud Micro.

If I get a little time this weekend, I'll try to shoot some measurements with REW. I do NOT have a well treated room but at least the speakers will all be on the same level playing field.

 

[Kyle_PL]

Your words about iloud precision 5, remind me Genelec 8330 after GLM calibration - high precision 3D stereo imaging, and i hear everything now (i have from few days 8330A + GLM kit, digitally AES/EBU connected).

 

[Jarick]

Your words about iloud precision 5, remind me Genelec 8330 after GLM calibration - high precision 3D stereo imaging, and i hear everything now (i have from few days 8330A + GLM kit, digitally AES/EBU connected).

Yeah I could totally see that. For me the safer play would have been to get a pair of 8030's lightly used and then use the ARC Studio box to correct, but figured why not try something a little different/cheaper.