Add a subwoofer to Focal Aria 906 bookshelf speakers ?

[daftcombo]

Hi,

I am considering adding a subwoofer to my Aria 906, as I listen to electronic music mostly.

My living room is 16m² only and I won't blast the sound. I just want to hear all the frequencies (down to 30 Hz) of my records.

Here is the frequency response of the Ariua 906's as measured by Soundstage:

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...cal-aria-906-loudspeakers&catid=77&Itemid=153

I'm thinking about
1) either just put a sub with a 12 dB / octave low-pass filter at 80 dB
or 2) add a miniDSP 2x4 HD and put both a low-pass filter for the sub and a high-pass filter for the mains at 80 dB with steep slopes (96 dB/octave) FIR.

As for the sub, Focal offers two options:
S 300 P, which is ported
+/- 3 dB between 36 Hz - 160 Hz
- 6 dB at 29 Hz
around 400 €

and
S 1000 F which is closed
+/- 3 dB between 24 Hz - 200 Hz
- 6 dB at 22 Hz
around 800 €

A guy on a forum said he had to return the closed one because it is not good for home cinema / house music, being too directive.

I can of course also go with anything else.

What are your views?

Cheers.

 

[q3cpma]

> A guy on a forum said he had to return the closed one because it is not good for home cinema / house music, being too directive.
Bass frequencies are always omnidirectional, unless some black magic is used like controlled cancellation.
> Focal S300P S1000F
I wouldn't buy these, they're not cheap for what they bring. Personally, I'd either go with an active "pro" solution like the Genelec 7040/7050 (or more conventional designs like the Eve TS108, Yamaha HS8S or JBL LSR310S) or a decent hi-fi sub like the SVS SB1000/2000.
The Yamaha NS-SW300 looks quite cheap for a servo subwoofer too, but I don't have any experience with it.

 

[Soniclife]

I'm not a fan of the just adding a sub approach to a 2 way like yours, best to cross over.

There is no reason to stick with the same brand as your speakers.

I'd strongly suggest getting a measuring mic first, and getting used to using it. This will tell you exactly how big a problem you currently have. The measurements posted mean nothing about how low they go in your room, or what problems need fixing. Getting used to REW isn't simple, so better to start with just 2 speakers than mains plus sub.

 

[dkinric]

In my experience, adding a sub (or two) is one of the most fundamental and significant improvements you can make in your system. Nearly any setup, outside of very costly full range towers, will benefit.
The fact that you are using bookshelves, and listen to electronic music, only strengthens the argument in your case. Absolutely no need to get Focal subs - there are very competent subs out there for less.
Probably the most important aspect is tuning them to the room/location, so the result is taught and well defined, not boomy nor bloated. The best way to do this is some type of dsp, as you mentioned.
One easy solution is to get subs with built-in dsp, such as the Martin Logan Dynamos or Paradigm. You can control and tune them with an app from your phone, extremely simple and quick to get excellent results. This is the route I went, running my bookshelves full range, and ending up with two ML Dynamo 800Xs, which are small, sealed, powerhouses. Very happy and highly recommended.
If using outboard processing like minidsp, lots of good sub choices from Rythmik, SVS, Hsu, RSL.
An interesting and unexpected side effect of adding subs is that I don't listen to music as loud anymore. As the full audio spectrum is available and present even at lower volumes, I no longer feel the need to really turn it up to get the impact from the music.

 

[StevenEleven]

Hell yeah, get two subs. Get two (carefully chosen) cheap subs (maybe $200 each) stick them in opposite corners calibrate them from your listening position to match the volume of your mains set the crossover to 80 hz, adjust sub level and broad-based treble tone control from pre-pro or receiver by ear for a week or two until everything sounds good (you’ll likely turn the sub level down a little because whatever mic or dB meter you are using will likely not have picked up the low frequencies proportionately) and you are done. You’ll get your 30 hz. Enjoy!!! Or do whatever these other folks say, I don’t care.

After you are pleased as an experiment you might want to set your crossover to 100 or 120 hz and see (by ear) if your subs are outperforming your speakers in that range (does it sound better?)—it can be a trade-off between bass directionality and FR smoothness and accuracy. It may be (as it was for me) that the subs simply fill the room better and more smoothly up to 120 hz.

I got two $400 subs, bought at separate times. In retrospect, that was overkill. But it sounds awesome. It’s the two subs that’s key.

 

[daftcombo]

I'm not a fan of the just adding a sub approach to a 2 way like yours, best to cross over.

There is no reason to stick with the same brand as your speakers.

I'd strongly suggest getting a measuring mic first, and getting used to using it. This will tell you exactly how big a problem you currently have. The measurements posted mean nothing about how low they go in your room, or what problems need fixing. Getting used to REW isn't simple, so better to start with just 2 speakers than mains plus sub.

I have a Behringer ECM8000 and did the following measurements with REW a few days ago. I'm used to it, though there are new beta versions every other day :-D
At listening position. D for Right, G for Left.

 

[daftcombo]

Hell yeah, get two subs. Get two (carefully chosen) cheap subs (maybe $200 each) stick them in opposite corners calibrate them from your listening position to match the volume of your mains set the crossover to 80 hz, adjust sub level and broad-based treble tone control from pre-pro or receiver by ear for a week or two until everything sounds good (you’ll likely turn the sub level down a little because whatever mic or dB meter you are using will likely not have picked up the low frequencies proportionately) and you are done. You’ll get your 30 hz.

My room is not symetrical.
One of the main speakers is 1 foot away from the wall, the other 2 and 1/2 feet away. So I don't know if I should put each sub in a corner or close to its speaker?

 

[dkinric]

It's different for every room. Generally, corner placement gives reinforcement (more output). As to whether that's a good thing for your situation, it remains to be seen. You should experiment with placement, and/or look up what a "sub crawl" is.
Generally, whatever dsp is applied can help for whatever placement works best for practical/aesthetic reasons.

 

[daftcombo]

Do you think I could put a sub next to each speaker and crossover at 120 Hz? (96dB / octave HS & LS FIR in miniDSP)
Or will it be blatant that there are several sources instead of two?

 

[dkinric]

Yes, you can put a sub next to each speaker. You can cross over at 120, but that seems high. Looking at the response graph you provided, crossing over at 70-80 seems more appropriate, even with no dsp at all - the Focals are very capable of running full range alongside the subs. You may want to try this simple solution first - probably 80%+ of the improvement is right there - adding sub(s) at the natural crossover point of the speakers - adjusting for room variations.
If you use dsp with high pass and low pass filters, you can cross over at whatever you like, but I would still think around 80 is a good place to start, experiment to taste.

 

[daftcombo]

The JBL LSR310S is about the same price as the Focal S300 here (around 399€). What should I choose?

JBL has XLR input, so I could run longer cables.

 

[daftcombo]

Yes, you can put a sub next to each speaker. You can cross over at 120, but that seems high. Looking at the response graph you provided, crossing over at 70-80 seems more appropriate, even with no dsp at all - the Focals are very capable of running full range alongside the subs. You may want to try this simple solution first - probably 80%+ of the improvement is right there - adding sub(s) at the natural crossover point of the speakers - adjusting for room variations.
If you use dsp with high pass and low pass filters, you can cross over at whatever you like, but I would still think around 80 is a good place to start, experiment to taste.

I am not sure but I think the Aria's have a resonnance around 105 Hz. Could be my room though. So I'd be happy to cut a bit higher.

 

[Darkweb]

I am not sure but I think the Aria's have a resonnance around 105 Hz. Could be my room though. So I'd be happy to cut a bit higher.

There’s nothing more annoying and immersion breaking than actually hearing bass come from the subwoofer’s location. Feel free to experiment but I would never crossover that high. 80hz or lower. Don’t chase tiny flaws in the speaker response that are swamped by room modes anyway.

 

[daftcombo]

There’s nothing more annoying and immersion breaking than actually hearing bass come from the subwoofer’s location. Feel free to experiment but I would never crossover that high. 80hz or lower. Don’t chase tiny flaws in the speaker response that are swamped by room modes anyway.

Even with steep slopes (96dB/octave)? I don't think sounds can be localized under 120 Hz. Would need some measurements to back my claim though.

 

[andreasmaaan]

My room is not symetrical.
One of the main speakers is 1 foot away from the wall, the other 2 and 1/2 feet away. So I don't know if I should put each sub in a corner or close to its speaker?

Is the room itself not symmetrical, or is it just the listening setup that is not symmetrically positioned in it?

 

[Willem]

Your room is small so you do not need a big sub. In any event, get two, plus some kind of dsp room eq (I am very pleased with my DSPeaker Antimode 8033). So my advise would be get the AM 8033, plus whatever your budget allows for two small subs (SVS SB1000?). If a computer is your only source you can also use equalization on the PC such as Equalizer APO.

 

[daftcombo]

Is the room itself not symmetrical, or is it just the listening setup that is not symmetrically positioned in it?

You are right, the room is a perfect rectangle. But I can not position the speakers and the couch at the same distance from the right & left walls.

 

[Bhh]

I'm in the same exact position as you and recently downloaded REW and bought a Umik-1. It is a bit of a learning curve to start deciphering all the graphs it puts out but I'm really enjoying the process and learning a lot. My recommendation is to start there and get a better feel for what you have now before you start upgrading. You will of course hear the improvement as you add subs and DSP but seeing what is happening as you move the mic around the room and make changes really helps with some of these decisions IMHO.

EDIT: I see you already did that. Sorry! We're in this together.

 

[andreasmaaan]

You are right, the room is a perfect rectangle. But I can not position the speakers and the couch at the same distance from the right & left walls.

Positioning subs in the centres of opposing walls is generally the way to go in a symmetrical room. Rarely the most practical locations for them though

 

[daftcombo]

Positioning subs in the centres of opposing walls is generally the way to go in a symmetrical room. Rarely the most practical locations for them though

IME you can put subs litterally anywhere in the room when you crossover at 70 Hz with steep slopes.