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Active Speakers dilemma
- Thread starter Flyman
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- Thread Starter
- #22
5inch is small in 1meters?
super low?how many db?
tell me about your illusions...
Do you think you are actually helping writing something in meaning nothing?
5" woofer is small, yes. And no, they do not have a ton of low end extension.
Do you think you have anything to contribute other than just going straight into attack mode?
Listening at 3 meters is not what they're designed for. Asking them to do that is probably going to push them beyond the output level they're capable of unless you're listening very quietly.
respice finem
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I'm happy with 8" woofers, but only 1.3 to max. 2 m away (the latter is IMHO already "borderline", but I'm misusing my 50 Hz room mode as a sub) 
- Thread Starter
- #25
I am just pose some questions. For sure I can't boast about my English. Maybe you misunderstood or I don't explain it well. For sure I am not flat or neutral like neumanns(hehe).
Nobody says about 3 meters.
As I know 5inch speaker is too big if you take a subwoofer and crossover it in 70hz or 80hz etc. Somewhere I read about the dimensions of each speaker and they measure and all this stuff...and they find that for a midrange speaker you get more accurate, fast sound for the mids with 3inch speaker. non of 3way monitors speakers that is accurate like atc, Neumman in bigger than 3inch. So if I will buy in the future a sub( what is for sure) I will get better performance with the 4inch speaker...so isn't small. Small is when you want a bookshelf listen make everything with 5inch, then simply yes I agree with you.
Over 80Hz, 5,1" woofer, still will have lower THD at reference levels (80-85dB from pair) than 4,1" woofer:
... so even with subwoofer, 5" woofer speakers, will have better performance, than 4" woofer speakers.
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There is no such thing as "fast" sound.
What "companies"?
Focal?
Utopia Main 112 - 3-way monitor | Focal
UTOPIA MAIN 112 is the ultimate studio monitor, setting an unrivalled standard for recording, mixing and mastering.
www.focal.com
Trio6 - 3-way monitor | Focal
Trio6, 3-way monitor : Our professional monitors are designed from the first stage to reproduce the sound signal without alteration. These monitors will meet the needs of both large studios and small listening rooms.
www.focal.com
... Genelec?
1238A SAM™ Studio Monitor - Genelec.com
Our largest three-way midfield design, the 1238A adapts to your acoustic space to deliver high-SPL reference precision.
www.genelec.com
ADAM Audio?
ADAM Audio - S5H Active Studio Monitor (Main Monitor)
ADAM Audio’s new flagship reference monitor S5H offers audio reproduction to the highest standards of fidelity. Innovative features & enormous dynamic range.
www.adam-audio.com
EVE Audio?
EVE Audio SC3012: Big box - even bigger sound
Main reference monitoring system - the ultimate solution that ensures a comprehensive listening experience with perfect frequency balance, outstanding dynamics and unbeatable sound reproduction. | 25 Hz - 21 kHz | 130 dB | 1300 W
www.eve-audio.com
Dynaudio?
Core 59 | Main monitor | This is what performance sounds like
Core 59 brings the pinnacle of precision, consistency and reliability to your studio.
... there is no such thing, like "mid must be max 3inch". Some producers making 3" midrange, but not for "3inch is max"
Low THD IS ACCURACY! Above You have 5 inch with low THD ... even at midrange.
kimmosto
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So it is variable
How about excess group delay and wavefront/directivity/reflections? Some frequencies could arrive earlier and some later. Sound arriving later are delayed so they are kinda slow. That will cause also error to transients dynamics though phenomenon is officially classified as linear distortion. The result is weaker punch - which can be called "slow" though sound with excess group delay at low frequencies is brighter than properly timed.
@kimmosto that's why we have today digital phase correction, group delay correction (yes), and subwoofer/speakers time correction (Genelec GLM + SAM monitors/subwoofers)
kimmosto
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Yes we have, but Genelec is one of the worst examples due to their weighting of durability and latency over sound quality. For example this main monitor has kinda integrated subwoofer producing 7-8 ms group delay at 100 Hz.
Modern full range active "main monitor" with linear phase XO could and should have for example GD of 1 ms at 100 Hz which is ca. 0.3 ms as excess group delay.
Smooth GroupDelay is more important ... and Genelec have it pretty smooth. JBL for example:
Please, show examples of products, with GroupDelay 1ms @ 100Hz.
kimmosto
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Aalto 9, Taipuu Kero L. Both have FIR linear phase XO. Excess GD is easier to get close to 0 ms, but natural roll off at LF increases normal GD already at 100 Hz. Especially with reflex designs.
Behrelec 37
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Aalto speakers is a small kiosk, and its annual reports are rather sparse; has it even been in the hi-fi business for five years? So they have expensive speakers, and if you buy a speaker from them and it breaks, will the repair service still be available in a couple of years, or will it end up in the trash?
These are very important issues that adults really need to understand.
These are very important issues that adults really need to understand.
kimmosto
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That's not the whole story because excess GD at LF drops pressure RMS of wide range transients. In the worst cases to a fraction from "original". Error is perceivable both in tonality and dynamics (as weak and lame sound) though it's officially just linear distortion. Most of the studies are limited to mid-high frequencies and ears only so they don't reveal whole problem.
DSJR
Major Contributor
Not heard Neumann or Genelecs sadly, but comments here and elsewhere indicate that they do actually present the music in-room slightly differently, Genelecs being suggested to be slightly 'brighter' up top perhaps. The latter smaller models are used all over broadcast situations it seems.
Harbeths as a breed since the 'Radial' cone, have a sweet and unforced low colouration midrange, the P3 in ESR trim onwards and not played at silly-high volumes, can fool a listener that a larger model from the range is playing. Find a good recording using brushed drums and cymbals and see how a supposedly 'better' speaker from the usual suspects deals with it. The P3ESRs were sublime I remember. I've not heard them and don't mean to shill for Harbeth, but the new NLE1 baby active monitor might be of definite interest if a scale down in size has to be accommodated. They're sold through domestic outlets too and with prices to match, but they *must* be worth a listen if you can get the chance. A broadcast engineer over in the UK, went over to NLE1s, replacing his baby Genelecs I understand (again, I think I have it right).
Being a long-term ATC fan (age of design and price be damned!), having known and used Harbeth HL models since their very beginnings in 1977 and using the opinion of @dfuller here as he knows ATCs in comparison with our favourites here, I'd kind of lean towards Neumann in the first instance.
Sorry for the waffle and hope it helps a tiny bit.
Harbeths as a breed since the 'Radial' cone, have a sweet and unforced low colouration midrange, the P3 in ESR trim onwards and not played at silly-high volumes, can fool a listener that a larger model from the range is playing. Find a good recording using brushed drums and cymbals and see how a supposedly 'better' speaker from the usual suspects deals with it. The P3ESRs were sublime I remember. I've not heard them and don't mean to shill for Harbeth, but the new NLE1 baby active monitor might be of definite interest if a scale down in size has to be accommodated. They're sold through domestic outlets too and with prices to match, but they *must* be worth a listen if you can get the chance. A broadcast engineer over in the UK, went over to NLE1s, replacing his baby Genelecs I understand (again, I think I have it right).
Being a long-term ATC fan (age of design and price be damned!), having known and used Harbeth HL models since their very beginnings in 1977 and using the opinion of @dfuller here as he knows ATCs in comparison with our favourites here, I'd kind of lean towards Neumann in the first instance.
Sorry for the waffle and hope it helps a tiny bit.
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