Active Speakers - Analog vs Dig Inputs

[MKR]

For those with active speakers that have both analog and digital inputs, have you tried both and noticed any audible difference in sound quality? Maybe not a reasonable question as I expect it fully depends upon the quality of engineering execution of the ADC and DAC in the speaker. And related, if in fact it is a well executed design, one should not notice an audible difference with the extra conversion step. Is this an accurate statement?

I think my audiophile “nervosa” is getting the better of me here … I don’t like the idea of sending analog signal to active speakers from my DAC only to have it converted back to digital again. I actually asked Hypex about this directly and they stated always better to skip the extra conversion and go direct to speaker with digital, but then you have the extra complexity of digital volume control.

Would appreciate any thoughts on this issue (or rather non-issue)

 

[sigbergaudio]

There is no need to worry about using the RCA/XLR on the Hypex amps, connecting it this way is perfectly transparent.

Disclaimer: I'm not 100% objective since our products use these amps, but I do have extensive experience with them. We recommend our customers to use XLR, and we also showcase/demo them with XLR. I personally use RCA for both speakers and subs in one of my personal setups, and I sleep very well at night despite this fact.

 

[MKR]

There is no need to worry about using the RCA/XLR on the Hypex amps, connecting it this way is perfectly transparent.

Disclaimer: I'm not 100% objective since our products use these amps, but I do have extensive experience with them. We recommend our customers to use XLR, and we also showcase/demo them with XLR. I personally use RCA for both speakers and subs in one of my personal setups, and I sleep very well at night despite this fact.

Thank you sir, was actually hoping you would chime in as I know Sigberg uses Hypex … you have eased my fears, though not quite sure if I can sleep peacefully just yet, maybe I need audiophile nervosa medication LOL

Maybe a silly question ... If fully transparent, then why would Hypex even have the option for digital input? What is the specific use case?

 

[bodhi]

I would think that if one extra conversion would cause audible issues then the whole music production process would be very flawed already...

 

[sigbergaudio]

Thank you sir, was actually hoping you would chime in as I know Sigberg uses Hypex … you have eased my fears, though not quite sure if I can sleep peacefully just yet, maybe I need audiophile nervosa medication LOL

Maybe a silly question ... If fully transparent, then why would Hypex even have the option for digital input? What is the specific use case?

To satisfy customers with audiophile nerves who couldn't live with themselves if they introduced an additional AD/DA after their super expensive DAC, perhaps? And if you happen to have a setup with digital outputs it certainly won't be worse if you use them. But most systems actually don't, as you would need a variable digital output, which is not all that common at least in consumer gear.

EDIT: Or if you add the optional Hypex IR receiver and remote, you could theoretically connect a DAC directly to the speakers I guess. As long as you don't have subs as well, as their mono amps don't have digital in.

 

[sigbergaudio]

I would think that if one extra conversion would cause audible issues then the whole music production process would be very flawed already...

There was an experiment on a Norwegian hifi forum where they did 10 AD/DA in a row (on a cheap DAC I might add), it was basically impossible to ABX-test before after. Then they did 100 (yes one hundred) AD/DA in a row. Then the difference was at least audible, but the sound was still not horrible.

 

[DVDdoug]

ADCs & DACs are rarely a problem but if it's convenient or practical, I'd avoid the extra-unnecessary analog-to-digital-to-analog conversion.

then why would Hypex even have the option for digital input? What is the specific use case?

Some people may not have a DAC or it may just be more convenient. More options never hurt.

There was an experiment on a Norwegian hifi forum where they did 10 AD/DA in a row

Somebody also did an experiment with crazy vinyl-loving audiophiles where they ran the analog through analog-to-digital-to-analog conversion and nobody could hear the difference. (I'm not sure about the resolution but I think it was "CD quality".) There's nothing wrong with enjoying vinyl but it's crazy to claim that there's something wrong with digital... And there is plenty "wrong" with vinyl.

 

[Vincent Kars]

Wonder what Hypex got to do with this?
From day 1 their Cass D power amps accepted analog input only just like class A. B. H, etc.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/242013327_All_amplifiers_are_analogue_but_some_amplifiers_are_more_analogue_than_others

This is not about the power amp but about the active crossover. Traditional active Xover is analog input, analog Xover, power amps (A, B, D, etc).
Today the Xover (and a lot more e.g. room correction) is done using DSP. In this case the D as used in DSP is indeed the D of Digital. Hence it is either digital input or analog input converted to digital first. After the DSP you have the DAC and the power amps (A, B, D, etc). A direct digital feed is to be preferred. Why wasting money on a unnecessary DAC?

 

[sigbergaudio]

Wonder what Hypex got to do with this?
From day 1 their Cass D power amps accepted analog input only just like class A. B. H, etc.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/242013327_All_amplifiers_are_analogue_but_some_amplifiers_are_more_analogue_than_others

This is not about the power amp but about the active crossover. Traditional active Xover is analog input, analog Xover, power amps (A, B, D, etc).
Today the Xover (and a lot more e.g. room correction) is done using DSP. In this case the D as used in DSP is indeed the D of Digital. Hence it is either digital input or analog input converted to digital first. After the DSP you have the DAC and the power amps (A, B, D, etc). A direct digital feed is to be preferred. Why wasting money on a unnecessary DAC?

I'm not sure I get your point. Which DAC is not needed?

 

[Vincent Kars]

Which DAC is not needed?

It is always needed if you use DSP as you can't feed a power amp a digital signal.

 

[YSDR]

I'm not sure I get your point. Which DAC is not needed?

Probably which is before a digital processing device, because such an equipment uses digital data and if it have analogue input, than an ADC will follow that. So in this case we have two unnecessary conversion (a DAC and an ADC) if we using digital source and analogue input on a DSP equipped unit.
The drawback of digital input is that there are much less devices with digital output that can be used as an "classic" external preamp. Of course we can use the volume control, input selector of the DSP equipped unit (if it have such things).
One very good unit that have digital output, remote and volume control, input selector (and many more functions) is the miniDSP SHD (Studio).

 

[dfuller]

There are certainly cases where running digital in sounds better, usually if there's a noisy conversion stage.

 

[YSDR]

There are certainly cases where running digital in sounds better, usually if there's a noisy conversion stage.

Or distorting.

 

[prestigetone]

Every company I have talked to said it doesnt make sense to run analogue unless you have to, including D&D. That extra conversion point kind of nullifies your choice of external DAC. Subjectively the digital direct route sounds more clean and highly resolved to my ears.

 

[Purité Audio]

D&Ds sound identical, digital or analogue, two pairs of 8Cs instantly switching.
Keith

 

[prestigetone]

D&Ds sound identical, digital or analogue, two pairs of 8Cs instantly switching.
Keith

My hearing is my own subjective take and D&D have said in no uncertain terms to run them digitally if you can

 

[Purité Audio]

They have never said that to me, and we have been selling them from the very beginning.
Keith

 

[prestigetone]

They have never said that to me, and we have been selling them from the very beginning.
Keith

Their entire ethos is to plug and play the speakers which would mean a digital signal or even ethernet via Roon. When I spoke with them their first rec was to use pure digital source, then digital interface like a minidsp or lake people. Last recommendation was from an external DAC. Why would you want two points of conversion?

 

[Purité Audio]

Perceptually perhaps but there is no audible difference between the digital and analogue inputs ask Martijn he posts here occasionally.
Keith

 

[AudioJester]

Perceptually perhaps but there is no audible difference between the digital and analogue inputs ask Martijn he posts here occasionally.
Keith

No agument with that. But why have an external dac when it is not needed? If using Ronn via ethernet you can have a physical volume control.