Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

[Dj7675]

So the ART signal is separate from the main signal?
Can I select a frequency interval for ART and a crossover point for bass management seperately?

I might want to have a different crossover for the main signal and the ART sounds which apparently are a lot lower in level and wouldn’t cause issues with smaller speakers as deep bass from the signal of that channel would do.

It is a very different way of thinking about things… you no longer set crossovers at all. Instead…

-You decide what speakers you want to be included in ART
-You decide the frequency range you want those speakers to be used for ART. Dirac will have its suggested range,but you can over ride it with whatever you want. For example if you have a surround speaker that is measuring down to 40hz in room, but you don’t want it playing anything below 80hz, you have that control.

 

[Music707]

So the ART signal is separate from the main signal?
Can I select a frequency interval for ART and a crossover point for bass management seperately?

I might want to have a different crossover for the main signal and the ART sounds which apparently are a lot lower in level and wouldn’t cause issues with smaller speakers as deep bass from the signal of that channel would do.

I second the comment by @Dj7675. For a proper understanding of how differently ART works I recommend watching this:

 

[pogo]

 

[dlaloum]

Dirac (and basically any other form of room correction DSP) can't properly correct frequency response deviations above the Schroeder frequency, because that requires knowing what the speakers sound like - they only know what the combination of your room + speakers sound like.

That's why I personally recommend that people only use room correction software to treat below the Schroeder frequency of their rooms.

I understand and agree - however, the first thing I noticed with Dirac, is that the midrange was improved...

Hence what I try to do, is tailor my target curve to the measured response of the mains (L/R) - and then apply that target to the rest of the speakers - so I use it to ensure timbral matching, and I use it to improve impulse response.... and I minimise DSP in the higher frequencies on my mains.

In a perfect world the initial measurements would be time windowed so as to approximate the sound of the direct speaker alone... and thereafter correction could be applied based on that - sadly that is not currently possible with any of the integrated RoomEQ systems.

 

[dlaloum]

So the ART signal is separate from the main signal?
Can I select a frequency interval for ART and a crossover point for bass management seperately?

I might want to have a different crossover for the main signal and the ART sounds which apparently are a lot lower in level and wouldn’t cause issues with smaller speakers as deep bass from the signal of that channel would do.

Given how ART works, you don't want crossovers.... you want to use any frequency capability of any of your speakers to the max.

DLART detects the capabilities of the speaker, and then limits itself to those frequencies (but that's not the same as a crossover) - you can then edit and move those limitations up or down.

 

[dlaloum]

Dirac (and basically any other form of room correction DSP) can't properly correct frequency response deviations above the Schroeder frequency, because that requires knowing what the speakers sound like - they only know what the combination of your room + speakers sound like.

That's why I personally recommend that people only use room correction software to treat below the Schroeder frequency of their rooms.

There are ways of measuring your speakers to understand what they sound like above the schroeder frequency (specifically time windowed measurements)

It is more complicated, would probably take longer, and requires more processing during the measurement.

But Dirac have clearly stated that they have worked with frequencies of up to 4khz in a more controlled and known environment (cars).

So yes it is possible above the nominal 500Hz (let alone above the 150Hz that Dirac are currently limiting ART to) - and yes doing it effectively would be more complicated..... interesting times.

 

[alont]

I understand and agree - however, the first thing I noticed with Dirac, is that the midrange was improved...

Hence what I try to do, is tailor my target curve to the measured response of the mains (L/R) - and then apply that target to the rest of the speakers - so I use it to ensure timbral matching, and I use it to improve impulse response.... and I minimise DSP in the higher frequencies on my mains.

In a perfect world the initial measurements would be time windowed so as to approximate the sound of the direct speaker alone... and thereafter correction could be applied based on that - sadly that is not currently possible with any of the integrated RoomEQ systems.

Similar in-room frequency responses don't ensure timbral matching because each speaker interacts differently with the room, and also potentially has different directivity characteristics.

Applying EQ solely based on gated and/or in-room measurements wouldn't be very helpful without knowing the directivity characteristics of the speakers.

 

[pogo]

 

[dlaloum]

Similar in-room frequency responses don't ensure timbral matching because each speaker interacts differently with the room, and also potentially has different directivity characteristics.

Applying EQ solely based on gated and/or in-room measurements wouldn't be very helpful without knowing the directivity characteristics of the speakers.

Why not?

Assuming measurement at mlp, within 20 to 30 degrees of center for all speakers.... ( ie all speakers roughly point to mlp )

Why would directivity matter?

 

[alont]

Why not?

Assuming measurement at mlp, within 20 to 30 degrees of center for all speakers.... ( ie all speakers roughly point to mlp )

Why would directivity matter?

We have two ears and a fancy spatial analyzer (our brain) which let us perceive direct, early reflected, and diffused sound differently. This is a key factor in psychoacoustics that is not captured by standard in-room measurements, nor gated measurements.

@Floyd Toole discusses the topic fairly extensively in his book - I highly recommend it!

 

[Dj7675]

StormAudio emailed beta testers that they can now talk about ART. They also said it will be officially released in “the coming days”. I have a 24 channel ISP and hope to carve out enough time to do some screenshots of the software, show some measurements etc. I found ART to be great in my setup and a significant step forward and the best my room has sounded. But subjective impressions aren’t all that meaningful so I will try to show some measurements and hope to have time to show comparisons to DLBC.

 

[broncogr]

Dirac Live®​

Dirac Live 3.6.5​

2023-06-07

Known problems​

• 
  NAD devices get a significantly louder Dirac filter (louder Dirac ON than Dirac OFF) than with Dirac Live 3.4.4. We therefore recommend NAD users to stay with Dirac Live 3.4.4 until we have fixed that problem.
• To downgrade from 3.5.1 (or higher) to 3.4.4 (or lower), users need to manually uninstall the higher version before installing the lower version.
  • Windows: Go to Windows Settings → Apps → Installed apps → Dirac Live → … → Uninstall
  • macOS: Running /Applications/Dirac/maintenancetool will uninstall the Dirac Live application
• Filter export takes about 2 minutes longer than with Dirac Live 3.4.4 on Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra devices, but it completes eventually, so please have some extra patience.

Features​

• Active Room Treatment is now officially included for availability with supported devices.
• Splash screen changed from "Dirac Live 3" to just "Dirac Live", thereby toning down importance of app version number when actually the connected device's capabilities are more relevant to the available feature set.
• Dirac Live Bass Control features have changed labels in the Technology Selection panel:
  • "BC: Upmix only" → "Bass management"
  • "BC: Full optimisation" → "Bass Control"
• Technology labels have been added in the left side panel filter slots:
  • RC = Dirac Live (Room Correction)
  • BM = Dirac Live with standard bass management crossovers
  • BC = Bass Control
  • ART = Active Room Treatment
• More measurements than the required number for a seating configuration can now be added - either by just clicking "Measure" when the original mic positions have been filled, or, by clicking the "+" icon to create additional generic mic positions.
• Measurements identified as imprecise will be highlighted. Therefore, a user can choose to re-take the measurement. With imprecise measurements present the output will be limited to only use minimum-phase filters.
• The EULA is now also available in the About menu.

Fixes​

• In some cases, loading a project caused an error message with incorrect description.
• The Dirac Live application crashed when switching between snapshots with different channel groupings.
• Connecting certain microphones could sometimes cause the app to crash.
• The microphone gain limits could sometimes show the wrong values after switching the selected microphone.
• Loudspeaker icons in Volume Calibration view showed the wrong symbol for "unknown" speaker types.
• Autosave projects did not work with some devices (reported on some Arcam and miniDSP devices).

Download​

Windows: https://artifacts.connect.dirac.com/public/accord/release/win64/diraclive-v3.6.5-setup.exe
macOS: https://artifacts.connect.dirac.com/public/accord/release/macos/diraclive-v3.6.5-setup.zip

 

[juliangst]

Active Room Treatment is now officially included for availability with supported devices

Is that only Storm Audio for now or other products as well?

 

[sweetchaos]

In 3 days, documentation should be updated for ART here:

Dirac Live Active Room Treatment - Dirac Live Support - Confluence

confluence.dirac.services

 

[abdo123]

Dirac Live®​

Dirac Live 3.6.5​

2023-06-07

Known problems​

• 
  NAD devices get a significantly louder Dirac filter (louder Dirac ON than Dirac OFF) than with Dirac Live 3.4.4. We therefore recommend NAD users to stay with Dirac Live 3.4.4 until we have fixed that problem.
• To downgrade from 3.5.1 (or higher) to 3.4.4 (or lower), users need to manually uninstall the higher version before installing the lower version.
  • Windows: Go to Windows Settings → Apps → Installed apps → Dirac Live → … → Uninstall
  • macOS: Running /Applications/Dirac/maintenancetool will uninstall the Dirac Live application
• Filter export takes about 2 minutes longer than with Dirac Live 3.4.4 on Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra devices, but it completes eventually, so please have some extra patience.

Features​

• Active Room Treatment is now officially included for availability with supported devices.
• Splash screen changed from "Dirac Live 3" to just "Dirac Live", thereby toning down importance of app version number when actually the connected device's capabilities are more relevant to the available feature set.
• Dirac Live Bass Control features have changed labels in the Technology Selection panel:
  • "BC: Upmix only" → "Bass management"
  • "BC: Full optimisation" → "Bass Control"
• Technology labels have been added in the left side panel filter slots:
  • RC = Dirac Live (Room Correction)
  • BM = Dirac Live with standard bass management crossovers
  • BC = Bass Control
  • ART = Active Room Treatment
• More measurements than the required number for a seating configuration can now be added - either by just clicking "Measure" when the original mic positions have been filled, or, by clicking the "+" icon to create additional generic mic positions.
• Measurements identified as imprecise will be highlighted. Therefore, a user can choose to re-take the measurement. With imprecise measurements present the output will be limited to only use minimum-phase filters.
• The EULA is now also available in the About menu.

Fixes​

• In some cases, loading a project caused an error message with incorrect description.
• The Dirac Live application crashed when switching between snapshots with different channel groupings.
• Connecting certain microphones could sometimes cause the app to crash.
• The microphone gain limits could sometimes show the wrong values after switching the selected microphone.
• Loudspeaker icons in Volume Calibration view showed the wrong symbol for "unknown" speaker types.
• Autosave projects did not work with some devices (reported on some Arcam and miniDSP devices).

Download​

Windows: https://artifacts.connect.dirac.com/public/accord/release/win64/diraclive-v3.6.5-setup.exe
macOS: https://artifacts.connect.dirac.com/public/accord/release/macos/diraclive-v3.6.5-setup.zip

Is this what i think it is? are they just publicly coming out of their storm audio exclusive deal?

 

[HighImpactAV]

Is this what i think it is? are they just publicly coming out of their storm audio exclusive deal?

No, the StormAudio ISP's are the only supported devices at this time.

Features​

• Active Room Treatment is now officially included for availability with supported devices.

 

[abdo123]

No, the StormAudio ISP's are the only supported devices at this time.

Features​

• Active Room Treatment is now officially included for availability with supported devices.

It's something i guess.

 

[juliangst]

I hope Gene from Audioholics will do a complete review of Dirac ART. He’s the only reviewer I know of that has a Storm AVP

 

[TimoJ]

Guides:

Dirac Live Active Room Treatment - Dirac Live Support - Confluence

confluence.dirac.services

Video:

 

[Ciobi69]

i am hoping to see some rew measurements