Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

[kawauso]

It should be subtle, bass in general shouldn't be localizabld.

Did you have different results with the Demon feature?

Denon's Directional Bass mode isn’t usually considered that useful, but it actually helped in my case.

Since it disables mono summing for the subwoofers, I was able to set a high crossover point — around 250 Hz — which allowed me to offload more bass from the main speakers and protect them from excessive excursion.

In Directional mode, you can still use Audyssey or Dirac RC, but I only applied manual EQ to the subs to maximize headroom.

I'm using KEF Reference 1 Meta as my main speakers, and with this setup, they can play at very high SPL without strain.

 

[lessthanjoey]

Denon's Directional Bass mode isn’t usually considered that useful, but it actually helped in my case.

Since it disables mono summing for the subwoofers, I was able to set a high crossover point — around 250 Hz — which allowed me to offload more bass from the main speakers and protect them from excessive excursion.

In Directional mode, you can still use Audyssey or Dirac RC, but I only applied manual EQ to the subs to maximize headroom.

I'm using KEF Reference 1 Meta as my main speakers, and with this setup, they can play at very high SPL without strain.

Right, so in this case you could only do so up to 150Hz, as that's the limit of support with ART. If someone left subwoofer support lower, say 80-100Hz they would not expect to get anything from this, and even at 150Hz it would not be nearly as different as at 250Hz.

250Hz does seem excessively high to me though, even 150Hz should be trivial for small speakers!

 

[kawauso]

D&M directional bass works with Audy only. Audy then equalizes each sub separately, as opposed to equalizing as a group in standard mode. All subs still play LFE, but bass that comes from individual channels via crossover of LPF is than played only by the closest sub. The latter is when you loose SPL as only one sub plays.

This is problematic setup and in most rooms you would need to equalize subs via REW and upload filters to MultiEQ-X (or use Mini DSP), unless your subs naturally have good response that Audy could correct. In my case Audy could not do much for each sub and did not go into REW as anyway would loose SPL.

I was Audy fan for long time, but with ART, can safely say will not go back as even with all the tweaks, ART pretty much beats it out of the box.

There is an element of localization for the bass for sure - from my experience large bed channels that can go down to 30-ish hz help the most. With both Audy and ART, I could/can clearly hear when bass is mixed in certain channel. It does come from that channel unmistakably despite sub support. I will have to re-watch Masters of Air with ART as remember that even my Atmos were able to place exposions up there in the Atmos layer in 3D. They do go down to 60hz but are bookshelves so can't do that at very high SPL.

It sounds like you've explored things deeply — your impressions really convey how much you're enjoying ART!

I was also an Audyssey fan before switching to Dirac. But like you, I find ART delivers excellent bass localization even without much manual tweaking.

My speakers are bookshelves, so with Bass Control I used to set the crossover at 100 Hz to protect them.

But with ART, I'm able to use a support range starting from 50 Hz, and there's no sign of strain.

One thing that really surprised me: the support frequency ranges across all channels end up almost perfectly overlapping, even when the channels and speakers are very different. That kind of coherence wasn't something I expected.

 

[kawauso]

Right, so in this case you could only do so up to 150Hz, as that's the limit of support with ART. If someone left subwoofer support lower, say 80-100Hz they would not expect to get anything from this, and even at 150Hz it would not be nearly as different as at 250Hz.

250Hz does seem excessively high to me though, even 150Hz should be trivial for small speakers!

Settings are completely different when you're pushing for headroom vs. casual listening!

At very high output levels, setting the crossover too low can dramatically increase the risk of physical driver damage — it’s not just distortion, the speaker may actually break.

Along with that, you also get harsh and unpleasant distortion, so it’s not usable in practice at that level.

 

[Daka]

I followed the article and separated both the L/R speakers and the subwoofers into independent groups.
Then I increased the support level of the subs closest to each speaker to −24 dB, and reduced the support levels of the more distant subs to −12 dB.

The result was very subtle — it seems like achieving noticeable directional bass requires more advanced tuning.

Don’t understand the logic behind it - support is not support in producing frequency but cancellation wave which the whole point of Dirac is to not hear.

 

[kawauso]

Don’t understand the logic behind it - support is not support in producing frequency but cancellation wave which the whole point of Dirac is to not hear.

I followed the article on ‘Directional bass’ and tried it. Because I didn’t fully understand what I was doing, the difference was very subtle.

How should one think in the case of wanting to set up directional bass? | Dirac Live Active Room Treatment

helpdesk.dirac.com

 

[Geertidow]

Would would be the recommended support groupings for a 2.2 system?

2x Genelec 8331s
2x SVS SB 1000 pro subs

One sub is near front left speaker, the other sub is rear left.

The Dirac guidance doesn't give a lot of detail.

Unclear if the subs should be in different groups as they're in different locations?

And should all speakers support all others? The 8331s go down to 50hz or so.

Have you managed?

Happy to see some measurements
I have a 2.2 setup and I am interesse to see what people achieve as results.

 

[ban25]

It sounds like you've explored things deeply — your impressions really convey how much you're enjoying ART!

I was also an Audyssey fan before switching to Dirac. But like you, I find ART delivers excellent bass localization even without much manual tweaking.

My speakers are bookshelves, so with Bass Control I used to set the crossover at 100 Hz to protect them.

But with ART, I'm able to use a support range starting from 50 Hz, and there's no sign of strain.

One thing that really surprised me: the support frequency ranges across all channels end up almost perfectly overlapping, even when the channels and speakers are very different. That kind of coherence wasn't something I expected.

They are very capable bookshelves. F3 is 45 Hz according to the spec sheet. Eyeballing Erin's charts, I'd probably cross them over at 60 Hz.

 

[kawauso]

They are very capable bookshelves. F3 is 45 Hz according to the spec sheet. Eyeballing Erin's charts, I'd probably cross them over at 60 Hz.

I used ART with the default frequency range of 50–150 Hz.
It seems to behave quite conservatively near the lower limit, where the level already starts to drop off.
Combined with the fact that ART rarely uses up headroom through heavy boosting, it means you can actually set the support range lower than expected without any real issues.

 

[AlArenal]

Don’t understand the logic behind it - support is not support in producing frequency but cancellation wave which the whole point of Dirac is to not hear.

No, support means.. well, support ;-)
Support to reach a certain target (TC), support to tighten impulses. It can be and probably typically is a combination of both.

 

[Daka]

I followed the article on ‘Directional bass’ and tried it. Because I didn’t fully understand what I was doing, the difference was very subtle.

How should one think in the case of wanting to set up directional bass? | Dirac Live Active Room Treatment

helpdesk.dirac.com

I see. So it’s more about the support above 80Hz that can affect imaging if other speakers/subwoofers support it as well. Haven’t thought about that. Using more or less default settings can’t complain about imaging though - it’s better than ever, but will try it out

 

[Oddball]

Settings are completely different when you're pushing for headroom vs. casual listening!

At very high output levels, setting the crossover too low can dramatically increase the risk of physical driver damage — it’s not just distortion, the speaker may actually break.

Along with that, you also get harsh and unpleasant distortion, so it’s not usable in practice at that level.

There are two separate considerations - crossover for your speakers, and then range of support.

Although ART claims that there are no "crossovers", that is a simplification. There are no crossovers that you can set. ART still needs to determine what will be the lowest signal it will send to your individual speakers so that is a "crossover" that is implied in the signal distribution path. Determining that point is obviously much more complex with ART than ever before, but from what I can hear, they are relatively conservative with determining their internal processing "crossover". I have managed to push some of my large bed speakers in distortion (although very rarely) with Audy despite setting realistic limits via curves, but this never happened with ART. You can get an idea of what ART is doing if you turn off the subs and do a REW sweep for your other speakers. At least I think so.

The range of support is a different story as you can set that parameter. Obviously one would not want to over-stretch the speakers out of their range, but also not sure if ART would actually allow you to step out of the detected range big time. Did not try, but my best guess is there is some level of internal limitations so that they don't get the fried speakers claims.

 

[gorman]

but my best guess is there is some level of internal limitations so that they don't get the fried speakers claims.

Considering they have the frequency response of the actual speakers in the room, it'd be masochistic not to have internal limits based on that. I agree with you.

 

[Oddball]

Considering they have the frequency response of the actual speakers in the room, it'd be masochistic not to have internal limits based on that. I agree with you.

Well levels of pain could be different. With Audy, you could fry your speakers any time you wanted, if the speaker protection was weak. Perhaps they had some specific legal language in their TCs that would somewhat protect them from claims. Although I don't recall threads such as Audy blew my speakers.

I agree with you that better approach is to set realistic limits based on measured response. Not all are responsible or aware or what they are/might be doing. And few hz won't matter anyway despite what enthusiasts would say.

 

[Harryharryharry]

Have you managed?

Happy to see some measurements
I have a 2.2 setup and I am interesse to see what people achieve as results.

Not had the time yet!

 

[kawauso]

I’ve written an introductory article about Dirac ART, based on my own research and understanding.
There might be some mistakes, but I’d appreciate any comments or corrections.
I’ve also written separate posts about my listening experiences and measurements in two different rooms.

The blog is hosted on a free platform (Ameblo), so you might see some ads — they’re not mine and I don’t earn anything from them.

『Dirac ART: Beyond Room Correction』

Introduction Dirac ART (Active Room Treatment) is not about “correctin…

ameblo.jp

 

[jtatknox]

I’ve written an introductory article about Dirac ART, based on my own research and understanding.
There might be some mistakes, but I’d appreciate any comments or corrections.
I’ve also written separate posts about my listening experiences and measurements in two different rooms.

The blog is hosted on a free platform (Ameblo), so you might see some ads — they’re not mine and I don’t earn anything from them.

『Dirac ART: Beyond Room Correction』

Introduction Dirac ART (Active Room Treatment) is not about “correctin…

ameblo.jp

Thanks, ChatGPT.

 

[kawauso]

Thanks, ChatGPT.

Sorry, GPT here
But I actually wrote a practical Dirac ART manual myself — here it is:

『How to Set Up Dirac ART on Denon & Marantz』

Table of Contents Preparation Tuning Subwoofer Grouping LFE Group Setup Main Sp…

ameblo.jp

 

[alvigg]

Here is a good tutorial.

 

[gorman]

Here is a good tutorial.

It's not good. He's saying that if you split subwoofers the ones you split are not corrected by ART. That's not true or an extreme simplification. Easily proved by REW measurements. Unless one likes to listen to content with just the splitted subwoofers. That I don't know what could result in but it's useless, obviously.