Phase, missed that one
Question, DLBC phase looks as a normal good phase response does and ART is totaly different.
Good, Bad i have no idea - guess it is the "thing" ART does.
Impuls is also much better with ART
DLBC
ART
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Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac
- Thread starter Flak
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Question, DLBC phase looks as a normal good phase response does and ART is totaly different.
Good, Bad i have no idea - guess it is the "thing" ART does.
Impuls is also much better with ART
DLBC
ART
@Keith_W ,
I just remeasured DIRAC using UMIK-1 and 17-point measurement. I saved two presets using DLBC and ART then tried running REW measurements. Not sure how to show the decay graphs everyone else is.
Setup is in signature and here is a diagram I shared.
Here is my MDAT set
I'm pretty sure even the basic Dirac Live license addresses phase:
"Dirac Live is a digital room calibration solution designed to optimise your sound systems and counterbalance the challenges presented by the room’s acoustic properties. It optimises the audio by compensating for distortions caused by the acoustics of your room. It addresses issues like reflections, resonances, and phase alignment, resulting in clearer and more accurate audio across the entire listening area.
When integrated with an AVR, Dirac Live measures the acoustic characteristics of your space using a calibrated microphone, analyzing how sound interacts with the room. It then adjusts the speaker’s output to ensure that the sound is balanced and true-to-source, regardless of the room’s shape, size, or materials. This process includes aligning the timing and phase of all speakers, including subwoofers, to provide a cohesive, immersive sound field—something that would be impossible to achieve with just speaker placement alone.
Contrary to basic EQ systems that mainly flatten the frequency response, Dirac Live corrects both the frequency and impulse response. This means it not only addresses tonal balance but also ensures that transient sounds (like a clap or a drum hit) are reproduced cleanly without smearing or delay. With its capability to adjust for phase issues between speaker drivers and align subwoofers, Dirac Live creates a more accurate and immersive audio experience that feels more natural and more true to the recording. By using Dirac Live with an AVR (or other device), you’re essentially enhancing the potential of your sound system to perform as it would in an acoustically perfect environment, making the sound more realistic and detailed, even in challenging spaces."
Dirac Live room correction - Dirac
Room Correction What’s room correction? The weakest link in your audio setup is often your room. Its shape, size, and surfaces can distort sound with...
www.dirac.com
From your Mdat
left speaker DLBC
Left speaker ART
How far down does front speakers support ?
Right. My point was that you can get to choose the curve for FQ response, and you get to choose support channels for ART, which will also impact decay time. Not sure what else you can choose to get the group delay or phase in check. Did not play with support levels, and have them at-24dB, perhaps something to explore for the ones that want to get all of their bases covered?I'm pretty sure even the basic Dirac Live license addresses phase:
"Dirac Live is a digital room calibration solution designed to optimise your sound systems and counterbalance the challenges presented by the room’s acoustic properties. It optimises the audio by compensating for distortions caused by the acoustics of your room. It addresses issues like reflections, resonances, and phase alignment, resulting in clearer and more accurate audio across the entire listening area.
When integrated with an AVR, Dirac Live measures the acoustic characteristics of your space using a calibrated microphone, analyzing how sound interacts with the room. It then adjusts the speaker’s output to ensure that the sound is balanced and true-to-source, regardless of the room’s shape, size, or materials. This process includes aligning the timing and phase of all speakers, including subwoofers, to provide a cohesive, immersive sound field—something that would be impossible to achieve with just speaker placement alone.
Contrary to basic EQ systems that mainly flatten the frequency response, Dirac Live corrects both the frequency and impulse response. This means it not only addresses tonal balance but also ensures that transient sounds (like a clap or a drum hit) are reproduced cleanly without smearing or delay. With its capability to adjust for phase issues between speaker drivers and align subwoofers, Dirac Live creates a more accurate and immersive audio experience that feels more natural and more true to the recording. By using Dirac Live with an AVR (or other device), you’re essentially enhancing the potential of your sound system to perform as it would in an acoustically perfect environment, making the sound more realistic and detailed, even in challenging spaces."
Dirac Live room correction - Dirac
Room Correction What’s room correction? The weakest link in your audio setup is often your room. Its shape, size, and surfaces can distort sound with...
Do you mean something like post-Dirac correction of phase?
Well it looks like the unfrasonicoption doesn't do all that much..
But I read that this is a common problem... how does it look in your setup? Do you get more output <20Hz?
Well, I'll put the mic away for today now and I'll do some listening
Not really. I trust that Dirac did best they could for the phase response thus I don't even check. Point being what else you could do within Dirac package to correct phase and group delay? Just be unhappy as not much you can do there?
This does Not look right....
And i do not understand why, LFE should have a low pass @ 150hz
Looks like you are getting a meaningful extension into 15hz range. I don't as only 2 out or 4 subs get there. More to tweak on my end but looks like your are getting the goodies. Perhaps try to bup that 20hz range with custom curve. Could work or not but best to try.Well it looks like the unfrasonicoption doesn't do all that much..
View attachment 482469
But I read that this is a common problem... how does it look in your setup? Do you get more output <20Hz?
Well, I'll put the mic away for today now and I'll do some listening
Otherwise feel a bit weird to be addressed in every post in this thread. Perhaps some other members could pitch in? Not that I need more exposure or want to be called the ART expert. My ART results are a function of excessive level of support, so not what most people are experiencing. Responses from wider audience would be greatly appreciated.
Well I wouldn't exactly call falling like a rock after ~21Hz getting the goodies
The infrasonic option does lower the fall somewhat to about 15Hz but I'm still like 6-7db down at that point when you'd ideally want to even boost that region up, so I'd call that more or less unusable but I'll keep trying different options.I'll ccertainly do a house curve with ART since the bass in the upper region is too aggressive for my liking... with DLBC I didn't fell like this was necessairy, I listened with an almost flat curve (very moderate bass boost of~2dB) 90% of the time
Haha understood, well you are a dependable responder
But I agree it is surprisingly quiet in here, maybe we should switch to the AVS-forum, that Dirac thread is very lively....I thought so as well so why is it, that phase is so different between Dirac BC and ART (and also Audyssey)? Frankly, I never quite understood how phase works
ART in general will roll off your speakers more conservatively. I am traveling so not able to tweak my setup but it definitively does take a tool and not sure how to reverse that.
For various reasons I am no longer AVS active member. But wish them all the best.
For various reasons I am no longer AVS active member. But wish them all the best.
It should have low pass at 120Hz.
Maybe it's a precaution measure to ensure people won't blow their speakers up ? Then again, DLBC wasn't exactly known for their infrasonic expertise either and if I remember correctly, people had to wait for Dirac to be able to correct under 20Hz as well?
I can understand you, there are some pretty rough waters over there sometimes...
Heard it during the DIRAC and REW sweeps. And I should add that both subs' crossovers are set to LFE, not 80hz or external.
Attachments
Based on my experience, ART will discount your speakers rol-off by 10-15dB or so. In some cases they might be correct.
It's really difficult if you don't know your speakers. I can sweep my LCR to 105 db down to 30hz. So yes, ART is not really getting it.
REW measurement should show LFE range only to 120Hz, unless there is a bug somewhere...
Dirac changelog, for version Dirac Live 3.13.2 says this:
When Dirac is handling bass management (BM, BC, ART), the LFE channel will always have a low-pass filter applied at 120 Hz. This is to comply with LFE channel handling requirements and be consistent with the Dirac Live Bass Control (DLBC) behaviour.
helpdesk.dirac.com
Dirac changelog, for version Dirac Live 3.13.2 says this:
When Dirac is handling bass management (BM, BC, ART), the LFE channel will always have a low-pass filter applied at 120 Hz. This is to comply with LFE channel handling requirements and be consistent with the Dirac Live Bass Control (DLBC) behaviour.
Software Changelog
@TimoJ If there is something I can check on my end to verify, let me know. Please note this does not at all sound bad/wrong. ART provides a very clear bass and low mid clarity I didn't appreciate until upgrading from DLBC. I am very pleased. No regrets.
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