Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

[scotchrocks]

ART still doesn't have any kind of loudness feature? Even before ART I preferrred room correction results from Dirac compared to Audyssey, but since my use case is 99% low to moderate volume listening, I keep going back to Audyssey just because of Dynamic EQ... :/

This is true, but if you know around what volume you typically listen at, you can bake an ISO226 curve into the target curve you give to Dirac. I don’t have Dirac but I think that’s what owners are doing.

I've been using the Dirac Harman target curves with ISO 226 loudness correction provided by @popej here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/targets-for-dirac-live.53435/post-2361722

This gives you predefined curves for various combinations of Harman slopes and loudness reference levels. With the D+M receivers, you can load 3 filters, so you can save different target curves based on listening levels/situations (e.g. music, low volume TV/movies, high volume TV/movies). It would be great if Dirac made updates for this to work dynamically based on a specified reference level, but at least this provides a workaround that gives full control over how much loudness compensation is preferred.

I've been using the target-10dB-h8 primarily, which sounds good to me for most material and listening levels.

 

[GalZohar]

Yeah, I'm sure it's great to be dead center of all the speakers with equal distances all the way around but there's just no way to do it in my living room or I'm not willing to do that in my living room. I do wonder how much of a difference it could really make like if I don't set in the middle position in the couch the experience is going to be noticeably worse. At least the rear speakers have some distance. It's not like the couch is right up against the back wall but you have to pick your poison. I don't want the couch so far forward just to get my ears dead center of the room. There'd be little to no room between the TV the coffee table and the couch. Especially when reclining.

You don't have to be centered between front and back but being centered between left and right is important, as well as having your speakers at angles as close to dolby specs as possible, whether it means moving closer to front speakers or moving front speakers further apart.

 

[jtatknox]

I noticed that since I installed DLBC, I could hear some higher frequency percussive sounds coming from my F12. Didn't like that at all! I think it's some kind of distortion that occurs with very deep bass and high frequencies coming into the sub at the same time, perhaps? Only heard it on some program material with deep bass guitar that also had high frequency percussive attack.

Same problem with ART. I ended up reducing support frequency to 100 Hz for just that sub and activated the manual crossover on the plate amp to start at 100 Hz. My RSL 10E's do better with the higher frequencies as far as distortion and they are further away so I am still running with crossover defeated there. Anyone else experience that? Sounded unnerving like the speaker was bottoming out but obviously that couldn't be happening at low listening volumes.

 

[dlaloum]

I noticed that since I installed DLBC, I could hear some higher frequency percussive sounds coming from my F12. Didn't like that at all! I think it's some kind of distortion that occurs with very deep bass and high frequencies coming into the sub at the same time, perhaps? Only heard it on some program material with deep bass guitar that also had high frequency percussive attack.

Same problem with ART. I ended up reducing support frequency to 100 Hz for just that sub and activated the manual crossover on the plate amp to start at 100 Hz. My RSL 10E's do better with the higher frequencies as far as distortion and they are further away so I am still running with crossover defeated there. Anyone else experience that? Sounded unnerving like the speaker was bottoming out but obviously that couldn't be happening at low listening volumes.

I've noticed on the ART forums out at AVS, that quite a few people have limited support to lower values than the default -18db...

Fronts at -5 is recommended, and lowering support levels on other groups is common...

also a good posting of short form recommendations at Audioholics...

When will Audioholics share their thoughts on Dirac ART?

Ya'll mentioned months ago that you were trying out StormAudio units with Dirac ART. When do we get to hear your impressions?

forums.audioholics.com

 

[Harryharryharry]

Thoughts on a good wireless transmitter for a sub that would be suitable with ART?

I have the rel HT air 2 I believe it is, but it seems to have packed in after owning it for less than a year (second hand).

Should I get another rel or would a different unit be recommended?

The delay shouldn't be an issue but wonder if variability in the delay could be?

 

[jtatknox]

Thoughts on a good wireless transmitter for a sub that would be suitable with ART?

I have the rel HT air 2 I believe it is, but it seems to have packed in after owning it for less than a year (second hand).

Should I get another rel or would a different unit be recommended?

The delay shouldn't be an issue but wonder if variability in the delay could be?

I am using two pairs of SVS tri-band and they seem to work great and compensate for the delay accurately.

 

[just1n]

Thoughts on a good wireless transmitter for a sub that would be suitable with ART?

I have the rel HT air 2 I believe it is, but it seems to have packed in after owning it for less than a year (second hand).

Should I get another rel or would a different unit be recommended?

The delay shouldn't be an issue but wonder if variability in the delay could be?

Using this and no connectivity issues so far. Dynasty ProAudio WSA-5TR-V2

 

[Beast76]

I've been using the Dirac Harman target curves with ISO 226 loudness correction provided by @popej here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/targets-for-dirac-live.53435/post-2361722

This gives you predefined curves for various combinations of Harman slopes and loudness reference levels. With the D+M receivers, you can load 3 filters, so you can save different target curves based on listening levels/situations (e.g. music, low volume TV/movies, high volume TV/movies). It would be great if Dirac made updates for this to work dynamically based on a specified reference level, but at least this provides a workaround that gives full control over how much loudness compensation is preferred.

I've been using the target-10dB-h8 primarily, which sounds good to me for most material and listening levels.

This isn’t a Dirac issue, it’s a D&M issue. Dirac is used to create a set of static filters to send to the AVR/AVP. The AVR/AVP would then need to apply PEQ dynamically (based upon the volume setting) post Dirac processing to get “loudness”. The HTP-1 and Storm units both do this today.

 

[dlaloum]

This isn’t a Dirac issue, it’s a D&M issue. Dirac is used to create a set of static filters to send to the AVR/AVP. The AVR/AVP would then need to apply PEQ dynamically (based upon the volume setting) post Dirac processing to get “loudness”. The HTP-1 and Storm units both do this today.

People have gotten used to loudness processing being associated with the RoomEQ software, mainly due to Audyssey having bundled it in with their software....

Unfortunately, Audyssey was the only RoomEQ developer to ever bundle that feature - leaving it up to the AVR/AVP manufacturer is very very much the norm.... and the HTP1 and Storm units are apparently the only ones that do this today.

It is a feature that many of us would really like to see become standard again, as was the case a few decades back in the heyday of Receivers (1970's/1980's)

 

[scotchrocks]

This isn’t a Dirac issue, it’s a D&M issue. Dirac is used to create a set of static filters to send to the AVR/AVP. The AVR/AVP would then need to apply PEQ dynamically (based upon the volume setting) post Dirac processing to get “loudness”. The HTP-1 and Storm units both do this today.

People have gotten used to loudness processing being associated with the RoomEQ software, mainly due to Audyssey having bundled it in with their software....

Unfortunately, Audyssey was the only RoomEQ developer to ever bundle that feature - leaving it up to the AVR/AVP manufacturer is very very much the norm.... and the HTP1 and Storm units are apparently the only ones that do this today.

It is a feature that many of us would really like to see become standard again, as was the case a few decades back in the heyday of Receivers (1970's/1980's)

Good to know; maybe with the proliferation of Dirac, D+M will add loudness processing to their feature set. Probably just wishful thinking though...

 

[dlaloum]

Good to know; maybe with the proliferation of Dirac, D+M will add loudness processing to their feature set. Probably just wishful thinking though...

Wishful thinking - most likely - although it needn't be anything particularly complicated.

The most complicated thing, is the ability to reset the reference level the loudness setting is based on to allow for signals that are mastered "hot" or "cold" ... without the reference level being about right, the whole loudness thing becomes problematic! (which is why the best receivers of the 70's/80's had a variable loudness knob... rather than just an on/off switch)

 

[smile nya]

I finally got Dirac ART set up on my Denon receiver, and the sound has definitely improved. However, I spent the entire day struggling with all sorts of bugs in the Dirac software. This is the second time I've gone through this.
Dirac really needs to fix its software.
When I tried to transfer the completed filter to the receiver, the program would act like it was successful, only to fail with a network error immediately after. This happened repeatedly. I eventually had to factory reset the receiver to finally get it to work.
Anyway, I've encountered a specific issue with my Denon receiver running Dirac ART. When I take measurements with REW in Stereo mode, the results are a complete mess. The response curve, which looks great when measuring in the 7.1 Multi-Channel In mode, is completely mangled in Stereo.
I was under the impression that ART was supposed to engage all available speakers for optimal control, even for stereo music, but it appears that's not the case. This happens even though the only support my front speakers have is a subwoofer.
Is anyone else experiencing this, or is it working correctly for you?

 

[Laika2]

I finally got Dirac ART set up on my Denon receiver, and the sound has definitely improved. However, I spent the entire day struggling with all sorts of bugs in the Dirac software. This is the second time I've gone through this.
Dirac really needs to fix its software.
When I tried to transfer the completed filter to the receiver, the program would act like it was successful, only to fail with a network error immediately after. This happened repeatedly. I eventually had to factory reset the receiver to finally get it to work.
Anyway, I've encountered a specific issue with my Denon receiver running Dirac ART. When I take measurements with REW in Stereo mode, the results are a complete mess. The response curve, which looks great when measuring in the 7.1 Multi-Channel In mode, is completely mangled in Stereo.
I was under the impression that ART was supposed to engage all available speakers for optimal control, even for stereo music, but it appears that's not the case. This happens even though the only support my front speakers have is a subwoofer.
Is anyone else experiencing this, or is it working correctly for you?

I have done a few 7.1.4 readings and stereo sounds great in 2.1 (sub engaged) support speakers are working even far rears with 2 8 inch woofers each. Can't hear them but see them flex. Using a Denon 6800

On the network issues I rarely have to factory reset. I just unplug the unit, wait 5 minutes though 30 seconds seem to work, plug it back in and wait maybe another 5 minutes for it to re establish the network connection. For some reason the network connection does not hold for more than a month or two, same with my Marantz 8015, Also check to see if your antennas are loose if wireless.

I can only state this unplug reconnect works on a Denon 6800 and the above Marantz that is not Dirac capable. .

Running full Dirac on a Denon 6800, I blame my modem, it's old, damn old and I'm hardwired, not a wifi issue. It's a network issue I think on my end.

 

[smile nya]

I have done a few 7.1.4 readings and stereo sounds great in 2.1 (sub engaged) support speakers are working even far rears with 2 8 inch woofers each. Can't hear them but see them flex. Using a Denon 6800

On the network issues I rarely have to factory reset. I just unplug the unit, wait 5 minutes though 30 seconds seem to work, plug it back in and wait maybe another 5 minutes for it to re establish the network connection. For some reason the network connection does not hold for more than a month or two, same with my Marantz 8015, Also check to see if your antennas are loose if wireless.

I can only state this unplug reconnect works on a Denon 6800 and the above Marantz that is not Dirac capable. .

Running full Dirac on a Denon 6800, I blame my modem, it's old, damn old and I'm hardwired, not a wifi issue. It's a network issue I think on my end.

I was wondering if you've ever tried measuring a 2.1 channel setup with REW, specifically after switching from the multi-channel input to stereo mode? Every time I do this, the frequency response completely falls apart.
The suggestion about it being a network issue seems unlikely. I'm using a stable, wired gigabit internet connection for my PC, and the router is less than a year old.
However, I will definitely try your suggestion to power everything off for 5 minutes. Thanks for the tip.
If you get a chance, would you mind trying to run a measurement in stereo mode on your end? My friends are experiencing the exact same issue. I'm using an A1H.
This whole issue is really bothering me.

 

[TimoJ]

The most complicated thing, is the ability to reset the reference level the loudness setting is based on to allow for signals that are mastered "hot" or "cold" ... without the reference level being about right, the whole loudness thing becomes problematic! (which is why the best receivers of the 70's/80's had a variable loudness knob... rather than just an on/off switch)

The Monoprice HTP-1 has fully variable loudness with two selectable correction curves, "vintage" curve mimics 70's style loudness curve.

 

[Laika2]

I was wondering if you've ever tried measuring a 2.1 channel setup with REW, specifically after switching from the multi-channel input to stereo mode? Every time I do this, the frequency response completely falls apart.
The suggestion about it being a network issue seems unlikely. I'm using a stable, wired gigabit internet connection for my PC, and the router is less than a year old.
However, I will definitely try your suggestion to power everything off for 5 minutes. Thanks for the tip.
If you get a chance, would you mind trying to run a measurement in stereo mode on your end? My friends are experiencing the exact same issue. I'm using an A1H.
This whole issue is really bothering me.

Sure, I can do a quick one, pm me tomorrow and remind me. Is your's strictly a 2.1 setup or how many speakers are you using?

 

[smile nya]

Sure, I can do a quick one, pm me tomorrow and remind me. Is your's strictly a 2.1 setup or how many speakers are you using?

Thank you for your kind response.


I'm currently using a 7.4.6 channel setup.


My front speakers consist of the left, right, and center channels, along with four subwoofers.

Have a good day!

 

[Oddball]

Good news for D&M owners - sale in Dirac store.

 

[NanoGuidingStar]

Good news for D&M owners - sale in Dirac store.

View attachment 481321

This is a regular bundled offer available all year round, and they can be purchased at this discounted price anytime. Their limited-time promotions usually happen during Black Friday, when the price is further discounted by around 15~20%.

 

[Oddball]

This is a regular bundled offer available all year round, and they can be purchased at this discounted price anytime. Their limited-time promotions usually happen during Black Friday, when the price is further discounted by around 15~20%.

Might have overlooked but almost certain it was not there at introduction for AV10.