Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

[Cinema40]

Subwoofer rated capability​

We recommend separating subwoofers with different capabilities into separate channel groups. The reason behind this recommendation is that they can thereby be assigned separate support settings that better fit their individual capabilities.

We also recommend that if a subwoofer is positioned with less support from near walls (i.e. standing near an opening to a neighbouring room), then it should be grouped separately from similar subwoofers that have more wall support (i.e. standing in a corner of the listening room). The reason behind this recommendation is that supporting walls significantly affect the performance of a subwoofer in a room.

So, to better customize the ART settings to each of the subwoofers’ capabilities, the separation into different groups is a necessary first step. The second step would be to manually adjust the Support Range and Support Level that each subwoofer support group contributes to LFE or other main channels.

As per StormAudio and Dirac, subwoofers should be grouped according to their capability so that their support range can be altered to prevent damage and ensure maximum support in the LFE and main channels. In my case, all 4 subs are the same (SVS SB-1000 Pro) but because of my room, I get a huge null under 30hz at the back wall. Does that mean they should be put into separate groups from the front subs?

Here's the measured Dirac Response -

 

[kawauso]

Is there a recommended guide to follow when setting up Dirac ART? I tried the default and the guide in this post here and got wildly different results. One better in stereo applications while the other is better in movies. I am looking for the one perfect calibration for my setup if that exists.
Also, is it true that the subwoofers would no longer work in a summing up SPL configuration instead work only to cancel room modes? I have 4 SVS SB - 1000 Pros in my 15ftx14ftx10ft that kind of need the SPL summing up to deliver the high amount of bass that i like.

What worked best for me was this:

- For all channels except the subwoofers, I set their support speakers to include only the subwoofer group.
- For the subwoofer channels themselves, I adjusted the number of support speakers to smooth out the frequency response.
- I applied the same house curve (with a +3dB bass boost) to all measurements — there was no need to set different target curves for each group.
- I also tested this method in another room, and it gave similarly good results. In that room, using just the L and R speakers as support for the subwoofer group worked best.

I’ve found that adding support speakers can sometimes introduce unwanted peaks or dips in the frequency response.
For now, carefully adding or removing support speakers based on their impact seems to be the most effective approach.

 

[dlaloum]

How is this achieved? By choosing the level of support?

Don't remember, would need to re-read the thread... it was the StormAudio Dirac thread on AVS...

 

[davidc]

I'm wondering if anyone who has used it in a setup without subs (likely with large main speakers) has any insights to share. Stereo or theater. Interested to hear your experience.

 

[JRR]

One thing that surprised me (i didn’t do much homework prior) was that ART utilizes all 11 atmos channels and their woofers during stereo listening making it a significant value for those of us that use our systems for music. The headroom is very noticeable. All of a sudden my puny Revel F226 sound as authoritative as a pair of large format JBL when assisted by another 12 6” woofers and 2KW. Definitely worth the $299 upgrade. A no brainer. I think subs are optional with an Atmos format system if you are using proper bookshelf speakers and ART. In small rooms there is so much boundry reinforcement and headroom that the speakers can handle sub bass just fine

 

[davidc]

One thing that surprised me (i didn’t do much homework prior) was that ART utilizes all 11 atmos channels and their woofers during stereo listening making it a significant value for those of us that use our systems for music. The headroom is very noticeable. All of a sudden my puny Revel F226 sound as authoritative as a pair of large format JBL when assisted by another 12 6” woofers and 2KW. Definitely worth the $299 upgrade. A no brainer.

This sounds interesting because don't have a sub whether I listen to stereo or home theater. My main speakers are capable of reproducing bass as good as any sub. So this makes me happy

 

[JRR]

One thing that surprised me (i didn’t do much homework prior) was that ART utilizes all 11 atmos channels and their woofers during stereo listening making it a significant value for those of us that use our systems for music. The headroom is very noticeable. All of a sudden my puny Revel F226 sound as authoritative as a pair of large format JBL when assisted by another 12 6” woofers and 2KW. Definitely worth the $299 upgrade. A no brainer.

This sounds interesting because don't have a sub whether I listen to stereo or home theater. My main speakers are capable of reproducing bass as good as any sub. So this makes me happy

What is your speaker setup like?

 

[davidc]

What is your speaker setup like?

Two very large left and right main speakers, and a pretty large center channel speaker all from vmps. See the picture below.
And two two side surround speakers, which we used to call rear speakers. I can't put any rear speakers in because our couch is up against the back wall

 

[awf]

Does anyone use Dirac ART for music or otherwise exclusively two-channel content?

I'm exploring how ART, perhaps implemented through a Denon AV receiver, might improve my music setup, which may be a little unusual.

I have two pairs of full-range, active speakers and two subwoofers. I use the eight-output MiniDSP HT to integrate the speakers and subwoofers with a music streamer and a TV.

I listen to one set of speakers at a time with both subwoofers enabled (i.e. a 2.2 stereo setup) based on where I sit in the room. The presets on my MiniDSP device allow me to switch from one set to another easily with independent EQ and cross-over settings for each speaker or subwoofer in any given preset.

So I have two main questions, one about the receivers (they seem to be the only way to use Dirac ART) and second about ART itself.

First, I wonder if the Denon receiver -- say the AVR-X3800H -- can replace my MiniDSP and streamer (a Bluesound Node n130). Is it possible to configure the pre-outs in a way that mimicks my current presets? Is it easy to switch between them? Would I be able to configure separate ART profiles based on the chosen "preset"?

Second, assuming ART would elevate my current 2.2 configurations, would engaging the other pair of full-range speakers at the same time improve bass response even further? For what it's worth, they roughly go down to 20Hz in-room.

Do you see any problem with the idea?

 

[Daka]

Does anyone use Dirac ART for music or otherwise exclusively two-channel content?

I'm exploring how ART, perhaps implemented through a Denon AV receiver, might improve my music setup, which may be a little unusual.

I have two pairs of full-range, active speakers and two subwoofers. I use the eight-output MiniDSP HT to integrate the speakers and subwoofers with a music streamer and a TV.

I listen to one set of speakers at a time with both subwoofers enabled (i.e. a 2.2 stereo setup) based on where I sit in the room. The presets on my MiniDSP device allow me to switch from one set to another easily with independent EQ and cross-over settings for each speaker or subwoofer in any given preset.

So I have two main questions, one about the receivers (they seem to be the only way to use Dirac ART) and second about ART itself.

First, I wonder if the Denon receiver -- say the AVR-X3800H -- can replace my MiniDSP and streamer (a Bluesound Node n130). Is it possible to configure the pre-outs in a way that mimicks my current presets? Is it easy to switch between them? Would I be able to configure separate ART profiles based on the chosen "preset"?

Second, assuming ART would elevate my current 2.2 configurations, would engaging the other pair of full-range speakers at the same time improve bass response even further? For what it's worth, they roughly go down to 20Hz in-room.

Do you see any problem with the idea?

You can use Zone 2 which will use different pre outs to connect to active speakers. Not sure if sub pre outs can be used in other zones though. You have speaker presets and then each speaker preset can have up to 3 room correction presets.
I would suggest perhaps aiming little bit higher for a better dsp than 3800 - 6800 or even A10h. I’m using the latter and it sounds as good as Lyngdorf mp40. Dead quiet.

 

[awf]

You can use Zone 2 which will use different pre outs to connect to active speakers. Not sure if sub pre outs can be used in other zones though. You have speaker presets and then each speaker preset can have up to 3 room correction presets.
I would suggest perhaps aiming little bit higher for a better dsp than 3800 - 6800 or even A10h. I’m using the latter and it sounds as good as Lyngdorf mp40. Dead quiet.

Thanks. Because of the room layout and use case, it’s important for me to have the ability to have different zones that make use of any combination of speakers and subwoofers, as well as EQ and other settings specific to that zone. I don’t mind spending more if the functionality is there and quality is good. I have no use of amplification though because all my speakers are active. I wish Minidsp supports ART!

 

[JRR]

Zone 2 does not support Dirac in Denon/Marantz products. However, on my Marantz, you are able to create a "speaker preset 2" and assign outputs differently there which should work. Read the manual though.

 

[jtatknox]

Zone 2 does not support Dirac in Denon/Marantz products. However, on my Marantz, you are able to create a "speaker preset 2" and assign outputs differently there which should work. Read the manual though.

Denon also has presets - that should work for @awf.

 

[awf]

Denon also has presets - that should work for @awf.

Thanks do you know if it means a preset can enable and configure any number of the speakers and subwoofers, and each preset having its own Dirac ART profile? Does it matter that they’re connected to the pre-outs and/or subwoofer connectors?

 

[JRR]

Each preset should have full capability. In my case (AV10) you can export three dirac loadouts to each of the two speaker presets.

 

[alalula]

ART still doesn't have any kind of loudness feature? Even before ART I preferrred room correction results from Dirac compared to Audyssey, but since my use case is 99% low to moderate volume listening, I keep going back to Audyssey just because of Dynamic EQ... :/

 

[masterhw]

ART still doesn't have any kind of loudness feature? Even before ART I preferrred room correction results from Dirac compared to Audyssey, but since my use case is 99% low to moderate volume listening, I keep going back to Audyssey just because of Dynamic EQ... :/

This is true, but if you know around what volume you typically listen at, you can bake an ISO226 curve into the target curve you give to Dirac. I don’t have Dirac but I think that’s what owners are doing.

 

[tifune]

ART still doesn't have any kind of loudness feature? Even before ART I preferrred room correction results from Dirac compared to Audyssey, but since my use case is 99% low to moderate volume listening, I keep going back to Audyssey just because of Dynamic EQ... :/

This, and front wide synth (which, understandably, is quite niche), are the 2 reasons Im patiently waiting for the HTP1 update to land. Any day now would be nice .....

 

[GalZohar]

I got an email from them today, advertising ART for Denon receivers. I know it's a difficult question to answer, but is it worth it? Are you going to need a golden ear and have to repeat stuff back to back with a an A/B switch between two receivers to tell any difference or does it genuinely make a difference?

I tried their non-ART stuff on the Denon 6700H last year but I ended up returning it. I was unable to tell any difference in audio quality and because they removed QMS, (for some reason your $2k to $5k HDMI switch can't do a good job at HDMI switching or support all/basic HDMI functionality) it kept going to a black screen that required a power cycle and it broke PC HDMI audio to the receiver. At the time, Denon refused to acknowledge any of it and told me I needed to send in the brand new receiver for service. So they could scratch it up and send it back telling me there's nothing wrong with it, no thanks.

With my arendals 4.2 1723 monitor s fronts and bookshelf s surrounds (which I set to 80Hz and up) with 2 SVS pb-3000 subs, I did need to do some A/B but it is clear there is some difference (a bit subtle but it's there) and didn't take long to decide I like the ART better than DLBC, although I didn't test extensively. Measurements also show some minor but nice improvements in decay times.

 

[GalZohar]

So are real volume levels just different in every environment? Honestly, I can't do below -40, it's just too loud.

With Dirac your reference level is actually not calibrated and you will have to measure post-calibration to figure out the offset from true reference. This is different from Audyssey.

Also you must turn off loudness management or it will further modify your levels in Dolby content.