Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

[DutchJay]

I recall watching his video - not sure if this one. My understanding is that you need to set up Dirac first (including crossovers), and then go to ART setup which is different screen and methodology.

Getting rid of time decay is most difficult thing in the bizz as room treatments for sub 80hz range are military grade in terms of looks, size and price. Double bass arrays are minimum 4 subs and will have strict placing requirements so in most cases you end up with primitive aka not fully functioning DBA. This is where ART is supposedly going to excel and for example do the same thing with 2 subs and less placing constraints. Time decay will of course improve the frequency response as the lingering bass will no longer be recorded as peak as it is not lingering. But that is where the magic stops.
ART will not really fill in your null at e.g. 50hz (if DLBC was not able to or placement of the subs) as for that it would need to play a really loud signal from the supporting speakers, which is contrary to the settings provided and instructions to keep the signal low and far from obviously audible. For the core frequency response you will be limited to what you got and traditional DLBC approach.

As noted, ART information comes in bits and peaces. Then you try to patch them together best you can. Surprised that more advanced users and beta testers have so little to say though.

Cool, thanks. I asked exactly this question to the dirac live helpdesk. Let's see of they answer! If it is like you say I will most likely buy another sub.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I recall watching his video - not sure if this one. My understanding is that you need to set up Dirac first (including crossovers), and then go to ART setup which is different screen and methodology.

Not necessary.

 

[Dj7675]

This guy takes you through a complete set up and it is clear that ART does not ask you to set crossovers like you do in DLBC. So in my mind it uses all the bass available to make the bass as flat as possible and to correct the room modes.

But not 100% sure ofcourse.

You are correct. When talking about ART ones thinking needs changed a bit. You don't set crossovers with ART. You set how low the speaker is capable of playing and ART will manage it. After you run the calculations, you can see what ART does.

 

[Oddball]

Not necessary.

Oh Kal, either contribute or don't. Putting more confusion to the mix from ART beta tester is why we end up wondering what this thing really does. And not sure if your PC version is the same as implemented, or to be implemented on the DPS.

Throwing around Chinese cookies with you background will certainly stir the pot in the wrong way and without clarity.

 

[DutchJay]

You are correct. When talking about ART ones thinking needs changed a bit. You don't set crossovers with ART. You set how low the speaker is capable of playing and ART will manage it. After you run the calculations, you can see what ART does.

Hi, thanks for chiming in. What do you mean what art does, will you see it setting crossovers? We're trying to figure out if it let's you run your mains full range?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Oh Kal, either contribute or don't. Putting more confusion to the mix from ART beta tester is why we end up wondering what this thing really does. And not sure if your PC version is the same as implemented, or to be implemented on the DPS.

Same as in Storm. After doing the measurements, you choose the mode of EQ calculation you prefer: DL Room Correction, DL Bass Control or DL Active Room Treatment. You proceed to that one and need not do anything with the others (unless you want to).

 

[Dj7675]

Oh Kal, either contribute or don't. Putting more confusion to the mix from ART beta tester is why we end up wondering what this thing really does. And not sure if your PC version is the same as implemented, or to be implemented on the DPS.

Throwing around Chinese cookies with you background will certainly stir the pot in the wrong way and without clarity.

But he is correct. In fact, once you select ART in the Dirac software there is no way to set crossovers.
Best info here…

StormAudio x Dirac Live ART - STORMAUDIO - KNOWLEDGE CENTER - Knowledge Center

support-stormaudio.atlassian.net

 

[Oddball]

Same as in the Storm.

Honestly, a really terrible answer. Same in the Storm for what? We all respect your status and accomplishments, but this is at least a very unhelpful post.

I personally don’t need any clarity as did my homework but would be more than happy to retreat if there is a post that would go in detail to rebut any of my statements.

In absence of any conclusive and detailed response, I will assume there is none - including what you contributed, if that can be called a contribution at all.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Honestly, a really terrible answer. Same in the Storm for what?

Did you read the other two sentences?

 

[ban25]

But he is correct. In fact, once you select ART in the Dirac software there is no way to set crossovers.
Best info here…

StormAudio x Dirac Live ART - STORMAUDIO - KNOWLEDGE CENTER - Knowledge Center

support-stormaudio.atlassian.net

Doesn't seem any difference to DLBC, which also locks out crossovers outside of Dirac.

 

[Oddball]

Did you read the other two sentences?

They were not there in your initial response - as my quote shows. But then what does your revised response really gets to? What will ART actually do? Just correct the decay or will it attempt to fix the core frequency response?

 

[Dj7675]

Doesn't seem any difference to DLBC, which also locks out crossovers outside of Dirac.

Are you sure about that. Been a while since I used Dirac DLBC but I thought you set crossovers in Dirac DLBC. What I recall doing is selecting difference crossovers and testing which provided the best results. At least from my memory you do set crossovers in DLBC, but you do not in DART. At least that is what I recall.

 

[ban25]

Are you sure about that. Been a while since I used Dirac DLBC but I thought you set crossovers in Dirac DLBC. What I recall doing is selecting difference crossovers and testing which provided the best results. At least from my memory you do set crossovers in DLBC, but you do not in DART. At least that is what I recall.

I misread. I thought you meant outside of Dirac. Yes you can (have to, really) set the crossover in Dirac with BC enabled.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

They were not there in your initial response - as my quote shows. But then what does your revised response really gets to? What will ART actually do? Just correct the decay or will it attempt to fix the core frequency response?

I, too, am irate that Dirac has not been forthcoming with sufficient documentation and, in particular, specific guidance on how to manage the multiple, multiple configuration options in ART. Just having new tools is not enough; we need to know how to use them. I find myself doing a lot of almost random experimentation and I am, by no means, prepared to offer a guide at this point. OTOH, I can and do comment when I can answer a question, briefly as you note. If I respond to your question, feel free to ignore me.

OTOH, some of the questions being asked in this thread are covered by documentation. For example: "Just correct the decay or will it attempt to fix the core frequency response?" It does both.

 

[EWL5]

I, too, am irate that Dirac has not been forthcoming with sufficient documentation and, in particular, specific guidance on how to manage the multiple, multiple configuration options in ART. Just having new tools is not enough; we need to know how to use them. I find myself doing a lot of almost random experimentation and I am, by no means, prepared to offer a guide at this point. OTOH, I can and do comment when I can answer a question, briefly as you note. If I respond to your question, feel free to ignore me.

OTOH, some of the questions being asked in this thread are covered by documentation. For example: "Just correct the decay or will it attempt to fix the core frequency response?" It does both.

Kal, I don't know if you've ever gone through the Dirac thread over at AVS but it's a veritable ER w/folks coming in with a variety of questions/concerns.

I shudder to think how it will look after ART hits the masses!

 

[Oddball]

Great and appreciate the wholesome answer. Would be great if you could link the core documentation. While there is not much, the right target would be appreciated.

They actually can't offer both core frequency response fix and decay fix through the setting they have in ART. It is clearly geared to cancelation signals and not to support signals in the core response range. This would require a separate screen and adjustments at least.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

They actually can't offer both core frequency response fix and decay fix through the setting they have in ART. It is clearly geared to cancelation signals and not to support signals in the core response range. This would require a separate screen and adjustments at least.

Well, sorta. The curtains define the range of the core frequency response and the target curve determines the.................. target FR. OTOH, the pop-up windows permit manipulation of the specific components, support range and magnitude of support that primarily structures the <150Hz modal corrections for each group. Lots of tools. Very little guidance on how to use it.

 

[dlaloum]

Theoretically, ART should be able to work even without a sub. Any speaker or sub should be able support itself. The question is only how effective ART will be when support is limited.

There are reports on the Storm forums of users having excellent results with stereo or 2.1 setups...

 

[dlaloum]

plus one Oddball: you need another support sub to support the lingering bass from the primary as your mains will not be able to cover the 20 to 30/40 herz range.

What is interesting is the fact that bass in the 0 - 20 is only bass you can feel and from 20 through to 60 herz range transitions to more bass you can hear. So it is debatable if the standing waves below what good front speakers can produce (and thus support and cancel) will cause a lot of boominess/problems as they are in that bass you can primairily feel realm.

Next to this ART should give you more clarity in the mid/hi frequencies because the lingering bass will not mask details in the mid and highs. Most of this masking occurs by frequencies that are relatively close together. So by by the mid bass rather than the deep bass. So again the debate: controlling the >30 herz to 150 herz might be enough to get the desired clarity effect?

All to be seen and hopefully supported by measurements.

For me considering the above: I have an Arendal 1s sub and the 1723s towers and center whoch have reasonable bass output (heights and surrounds not so much). I'll run ART in this config first to check how good the result is before I buy another subwoofer.

Have a look at the Storm forums for measurements - the measurements are showing excellent results

 

[Curvature]

There are reports on the Storm forums of users having excellent results with stereo or 2.1 setups...

This will be me whenever ART is made available.