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Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

GXAlan said:
I’m sure at least in the realm of home theater, this is probably akin to Blockbuster video choosing not to acquire Netflix when they had the chance and money to do so.

Except for the 1000 years comment, everything you say is 100% accurate. All of the major bugs were fixed by customers so in its current state, its reliable as long as the existing feature set is all you care about.

They had a made in USA 16 channel processor with very high performance SINAD at good profit margins even when selling B-stock at $3200 or less which is still pretty good today 6 years later.

As inflation has kicked in, other companies have escalated prices, it’s the high end that is most resilient against market forces. They could have set the stage for a HTP-2 or Trinnov like upgrade program. Now, with the incoming tariffs and Monoprice’s heavily imported inventory, their ability to pivot toward AV electronics is compromised based upon their track record.

If the HTP-2 comes out, even HTP-1 owners are going to be skeptical no matter how good or cheap it is. The price of the HTP-2 would simply reflect the product itself, as opposed to the price that Denon or Marantz can charge based upon track record…
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All the manufacturers will get caught by those Tariffs - none of them manufacture in the USA....
 
dlaloum said:
All the manufacturers will get caught by those Tariffs - none of them manufacture in the USA....
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For sure. Components are going to be tariffed unless they were already warehoused in the U.S. in anticipation of the tariffs.

However, since the PCBs are made in the U.S. for the HTP-1, the proportion of the tariff is probably lower that electronics fully made in China.

Factory Tour - Amplifier Technologies Inc.

www.ati-amp.com www.ati-amp.com
 
Frank207be said:
And what about this? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-offer-dirac-live-bass-control-and-art.60891/

I think Dirac is more than willing to sell a few extra ART licenses ;)
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Many thanks for sharing - this is great and hopefully first of many ART announcements for brands other than Storm.

Hopefully D&M is taking notice and not just distracted in internal reorganisations and change management. They need to run their business despite all distractions and no better way of doing it than providing new features and products. Even if R&D is limited, I think providing ART support to the existing top line products would go a long way - perhaps even longer than pushing out a new line of products - as I can't currently think of any features (at least of my interest) that these products lack and that could not be fixed with firmware update.
 
It's not that bad and seems they are improving as of last Q - in the corporate world it is funny money anyway.

At least for D&M - they have great products, just need to consolidate the product lines and reduce the cost. I would not be worried about them at this point and hopefully the new shareholders will know how to help them. Big axe here and there and surgical knife in-between and you have a whole new company ready to move on.
 
Magnus said:
ART for the Monoprice HTP-1 has been in beta for 1000 years now.... DTS:X Pro was supposed to come shortly after. I feel sorry for the fools that bought this buggy POS clear back on 2019. When customers have to fix the bugs for you, it's BAD. I had hopes for it and at least the worst bugs are fixed (by customers) now.
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You think Monoprice was bad? Have you read the Arcam/JBL Synthesis threads???

DSX pro or whatever seems like something of interest to like 5 people, albeit very loud people on the internet. It doesn’t make neural x any better from what I understand - and IMO it’s by far the bottom-dweller of the 3 main stereo upmixers. It just adds more channels. That is besides the point with a 16 channel processor - which is IMO a 7.1.4 channel with multisubs device. The newer version of Dolby’s upmixer (never promised for HTP-1) is more interesting IMO.


Magnus said:
Monoprice crapped their pants on this. They could have had the best AVP for the price, but this is right up there with Emotiva.
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Comparisons to Emotiva just mark one as unserious.

I’m not sure what’s competitive at 3x the price right now. That may change if someone else ships with ART compatibility. But for now there’s really nothing as good until you hit StormAudio. Even Lyngdorf is some tradeoffs.
 
jhaider said:
You think Monoprice was bad? Have you read the Arcam/JBL Synthesis threads???

DSX pro or whatever seems like something of interest to like 5 people, albeit very loud people on the internet. It doesn’t make neural x any better from what I understand - and IMO it’s by far the bottom-dweller of the 3 main stereo upmixers. It just adds more channels. That is besides the point with a 16 channel processor - which is IMO a 7.1.4 channel with multisubs device. The newer version of Dolby’s upmixer (never promised for HTP-1) is more interesting IMO.



Comparisons to Emotiva just mark one as unserious.

I’m not sure what’s competitive at 3x the price right now. That may change if someone else ships with ART compatibility. But for now there’s really nothing as good until you hit StormAudio. Even Lyngdorf is some tradeoffs.
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I don't know what you think you hear or think you know about DTS:X, but that's a tall load of horse manure you're peddling!

Bottom dweller??? LOL. There is no better upmixer for movies than Neural X. Period. The more speakers you can utilize in a given room, the more precise the imaging will be for everyone in the room. This is particularly true with more than one row of seats and for people sitting off-axis due to the Precedence Effect, which tends to pull imaging to the closer speaker rather than the intended location (simplest example is a center channel speaker centering the dialog for people sitting left or right of center; otherwise it pulls to the closer L/R speaker. The same is true for for any stereo pair. Neural X makes use of these for both it as an upmixer and for restoring up to the full 30-channel capability of DTS:X. It functions no different than Atmos rendering to layouts beyond 5.1.4. It also fills imaging gaps that are too long (greater than 50 to 60 degrees or so between adjacent pairs of speakers).

Five people? You must not know very many people who have immersive audio systems. There's a lot of people these days with 13 and 15 speaker configurations using D&M products with DTS:X Pro as well as Trinnov and Storm users with larger setups, particularly since the new D&M lines came out, the prior 13 model AVRs went on deep sale. It's also possible to extract extra in-between speakers using 'Scatmos' processor extraction (I've got 11.1.8 here with six processors for extraction using only a 11.1 AVR that works with all modes including DTS, Atmos and even Auro-3D).

Dolby's upmixer DSU is utter amateur hour by comparison to Neural X. Even with the newer version, you still only get up to 9 ear-level speakers and ALL overheads act as one large stereo array overhead (no front/back panning overhead in DSU whatsoever).

Emotiva took immense amounts of time to deliver features or not ever get around to them and just release replacement products instead and they're buggy as all hell. How the fu#@ is that an "unserious" comparison?!?!?

That is besides the point with a 16 channel processor - which is IMO a 7.1.4 channel with multisubs device
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While the HTP-1 shared channels with subs, the new D&M have 4 separate sub channels fully independent of the 9.1.6 configuration. I guess that would make them 19-channel processors in your world. But you can add 4 sub with a simple Mini-DSP unit and get potentially better results than a stock DIRAC system for bass using MSO (multiple sub optimizer). It's a mere $260. But go waste thousands to just do 7.1.4 plus some extra subs....

Franky, it's pretty damn clear to me you know exactly JACK SHI$ about immersive audio.
 
Magnus said:
I don't know what you think you hear or think you know about DTS:X, but that's a tall load of horse manure you're peddling!
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You know, civilized discussion requires engagement, not merely lodging a dumb insult and then sidestepping the points actually made.

Magnus said:
Bottom dweller??? LOL. There is no better upmixer for movies than Neural X.
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Perhaps. I have no knowledge about that, as movie sound IMO isn’t that important. In any event, it’s out of the scope of what I wrote: “stereo upmixer.” Generally, movies have not been in stereo for some time. If what I’ve heard translates to movies, that means it tries to put sound all over the place, so you always know you have all those speakers. I guess some people prefer that over the system disappearing?

Magnus said:
Period. The more speakers you can utilize in a given room, the more precise the imaging will be for everyone in the room.
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Maybe. We’re also talking about small rooms, and of course practicality issues.

Besides, if you’re just talking about movies, the “imaging” is pretty much what you see on the screen. As long as the sound is close, it’s generally fine. Even Atmos bouncers work pretty well in concert with visual cues.

Magnus said:
Five people? You must not know very many people who have immersive audio systems.
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That is correct. I know personally exactly one household with an immersive system: ours. Admittedly suburbanites may know more such people. But immersive is a small niche in the world, unfortunately small in my view.

Magnus said:
Emotiva took immense amounts of time to deliver features or not ever get around to them and just release replacement products instead and they're buggy as all hell. How the fu#@ is that an "unserious" comparison?!?!?
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HTP-1 was never as a tenth as bad as Emo to start, never needed a separate computer box dongle for Dirac, and the early issues that did exist were remediated.

The big and potentially disqualifying HTP-1 glitch (the doom loop issue) was resolved largely by one very smart and generous user (+testers) and subsequently endorsed by the company years ago now. IMO, in terms of issues in the non-stratospheric priced AVR/P category, Emo has been in a deep pit by themselves, Arcam/JBL Synthesis have been bad and there are still some things very stupid about them (Samsung can’t figure out OTA updates?) but are by now maybe 80% of the way there. Onkyo is still teething (serious DLBC issues). Monoprice has been pretty good. Denon/Marantz/Yamaha have been good. None have been great. OTOH, of those only HTP-1 allows DLBC and loudness compensation and native PEQ in the proper spot (upstream) in the processing chain. So the best feature set by far and generally reliable operation.

Magnus said:
But you can add 4 sub with a simple Mini-DSP unit and get potentially better results than a stock DIRAC system for bass using MSO (multiple sub optimizer). It's a mere $260. But go waste thousands to just do 7.1.4 plus some extra subs...
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I’ve only been using miniDSP products since the OG 2x4 model with 0.9V output. For most (non-retired) people with the means and real estate to play with this stuff, capital is not the main limiting factor. Time is. So a solution like DLBC that gets very good to great results with one set of measurements and a short about of computer fiddling time is a spectacular value add. True, some people would rather fiddle than listen to music, and nothing wrong with having that as a hobby.

As for MSO, look up Dr. Geddes’s take on it on YouTube.

Magnus said:
Franky, it's pretty damn clear to me you know exactly JACK SHI$ about immersive audio.
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Well…my first exposure to immersive was over a decade ago. I’m pretty sure I wrote some of the first reviews of immersive hardware that took it seriously, starting about a decade ago. See, e.g. https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews...rantz-av7702-surround-sound-processor-review/.

At any rate, all of this banter is far afield of ART. Unfortunately none of the boxes discussed above offer it (hopefully yet). I have had a chance ito play with ART in 2.2 channel and hope to expand that to immersive someday hopefully soon.
 
I expect that ART calibration will be simpler with other AVRs/Processors. Interestingly, the author applied a sort of BBC dip at 1 kHz to the target curve.
 
jhaider said:
As for MSO, look up Dr. Geddes’s take on it on YouTube.
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Do you have a link for this? Trying to look up anything for Dr. Geddes just leads to content from a medical doctor.
 
pogo said:
Yes, that's how I understood it at the time. Unfortunately, I can't find the source at the moment.
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I was told by Dirac that you will need Live Room Correction, but you will not need Live Bass Control
 
pogo said:

Dirac Live 3.13.2 // 2025-02-28​

Features​

  • ART support range sliders now take precedence over the detected range of a speaker.
    • In cases where there is no subwoofer used as support speaker, ART filter designs could sometimes result in undesirable magnitude boosts at frequencies between the speaker’s detected low cut-off and the user’s selected low end of the ART support range.
    • The workaround has been to manually adjust the advanced target curve to not “ask for” more bass than the available supporting speakers can provide.
    • The updated functionality will instead use the selected low end of the ART support range to limit, or contain, the magnitude boost applied by the ART filter design. Therefore, it will not longer be necessary to adjust the advanced target curve to achieve a “reasonable” ART filter design.
  • The LFE group in ART now uses a non-subwoofer speaker to define its time target.
    • ART utilizes the measured wavefront propagation of the main speaker in each microphone position to define the time target response for that channel.
    • For the LFE channel, ART utilized the first subwoofer in the LFE group as main speaker for the LFE channel. However, this has two drawbacks:
      • The main peak in a subwoofer’s impulse response can sometimes be difficult to detect. In cases where the detection has failed in one or more microphone positions, the resulting target may not represent a desired wavefront propagation.
      • When multiple subwoofers are used, then ART may “unfairly” assign too much power to the first subwoofer, due to its measured capability to contribute more effectively to attaining the target (which was defined by its measured response) than the other subwoofers.
    • The updated functionality will use a full-range speaker to define the time target for the LFE channel.
      • If there is a Center speaker, ART will try to identify it and use it as target.
      • If a Center speaker cannot be certainly identified, then ART will use either the Front Left or the Front Right speaker as target.
      • The advanced ART settings for the LFE channel group has a drop-down menu to let the user manually override the automatic selection.
  • When Dirac is handling bass management (BM, BC, ART), the LFE channel will always have a low-pass filter applied at 120 Hz. This is to comply with LFE channel handling requirements and be consistent with the Dirac Live Bass Control (DLBC) behaviour.
  • ART now supports the case where some speakers are excluded from supporting other speakers. However, they may still receive support from other speakers when they are enabled.
  • Reduced the time it takes to export a filter to Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer devices.
Bug fixes
  • Fixing a few issues related to measurements taken while an AVR was on an older firmware and using them for filter design and filter export to the same AVR with an upgraded firmware:
    • Dirac Live could crash when clicking the Bass Management filter design option.
    • Bass Control filter design could fail with a message “Malformed request”.
    • Filter export could fail with an error message “Failed filter export”.
  • Fixed an issue where Dirac Live could crash when calculating a Bass Control filter with a narrowband subwoofer.
  • Fixed an issue where Dirac Live could crash at the end of ART preprocessing for a 2.1 system.
  • Fixed an issue where Dirac Live could silently fail to load an older ART project, showing no measurements in the filter design page.
  • Fixed an issue where loading a stored Dirac Live filter design snapshot would put the filter design in a wrong state - as if it had a completed filter design, which it didn’t. An attempt to export that filter design to the device would fail.
  • Fixed an issue where an offer to upgrade a license to ART wasn’t shown when connected to a device supporting ART.
  • Adjusted the LFE low-pass filter cut-off frequency in Bass Control to be -3dB at 120Hz. It was previously erroneously set to -6dB at 120Hz.
  • Fixed an issue where the Bass Control subwoofer impulse response plots were not properly scaled, almost appearing as having zero amplitude (flat).
  • Fixed an issue in the Filter Export page where the text input box for the filter name would sometimes lose focus while typing.
  • Missing/wrong signing for the previous beta releases has been fixed.
  • Other minor bug fixes and under-the-hood stabilizations.
Known Issues
  • The animations in the Dirac Live UI during measurements have been temporarily disabled. This is because we have found that the animations cause high CPU load on some computers, both PCs and Macs, resulting in audio buffer loss in the measurements. The measurement progress can be followed in the progress percentage, which is still displayed.
  • Processing progress percentage can in some situations jump backwards. This doesn’t indicate that there is a problem with the processing itself. It is only the calculation of the progress that needs fixing.
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Reading the above it "seems" like it will support systems without a subwoofer properly? My two large tower front speakers are capable of bass as good as any sub, and I don't have room for subs. Will is support my type of system?

This is all good. I sure hope it gets it closer to introducing it to Denon and Marantz. We are real late on this.
 
pogo said:
Fixed an issue in the Filter Export page where the text input box for the filter name would sometimes lose focus while typing.
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Hallelujah! This was driving me nuts!
 
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