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Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

Question… in ART there is an option for “infrasonic” bass… for the subwoofers on each group…,
L/r, center, backs etc and when the group is selected.. it has the subwoofer infrasonic option… even of course when the sub group is selected…
Should i enable infrasonic for the subs on all groups?
 
Question… in ART there is an option for “infrasonic” bass… for the subwoofers on each group…,
L/r, center, backs etc and when the group is selected.. it has the subwoofer infrasonic option… even of course when the sub group is selected…
Should i enable infrasonic for the subs on all groups?
There are good reasons you might want to high pass at 20 Hz and good reasons you might want to leave the infrasonics intact. This is one of those setting that is going to be a preference, no right or wrong answer. Fortunately you can easily switch back and forth with and without infrasonics and decide for yourself.
 
There are good reasons you might want to high pass at 20 Hz and good reasons you might want to leave the infrasonics intact. This is one of those setting that is going to be a preference, no right or wrong answer. Fortunately you can easily switch back and forth with and without infrasonics and decide for yourself.
You’re misunderstanding the question…
I want the “infrasonic”…. There is an option to check the box for infrasonic on the subs on each group for the sub group… and on the sub group…
If I want the infrasonic… should I check it on for the subs on each group as well as the sub group?
 
You’re misunderstanding the question…
I want the “infrasonic”…. There is an option to check the box for infrasonic on the subs on each group for the sub group… and on the sub group…
If I want the infrasonic… should I check it on for the subs on each group as well as the sub group?
No, only the subs that go below 20. Only in the sub group itself, if some don't go below 20 separate into 2 groups.
 
100% agree and I’ve learned that the hard way…That’s why I’m wanting to know from the experts what the best practices would suggest
I watched several videos featuring a Dirac representative. His recommendations are much more aggressive settings than any guides or forum recommendations I had found previously. For instance, he mentions that the center speaker can also be used for support, provided it is sufficiently capable. He suggests—when dealing with specific groups, for example—activating support for the group itself first and then adding other support groups step by step. Naturally, you can also increase the support settings themselves (FSupport low/high and the support level). The goal should be to minimize the calculated spread as much as possible.
The key here is to make changes incrementally and then observe the spread to see if a particular group is contributing significantly to the support. You can use Dirac’s snapshot feature for this (labeling them accordingly) or simply take screenshots, as I did.
Unfortunately, AI isn't actually intelligent but more like a "Gossip Girl" that soaks up every rumor and then spreads the ones it has encountered most frequently. If 100 forum posts appear across various websites claiming that mounting all subwoofers in the center of the ceiling yields the best sound, then AI will say so, too —once it has been trained on that nonsense in its next iteration.
My initial settings were far too conservative, because I was worried that more support would cause the stereo image to collapse. Significantly lowering the FSupport low setting—based on the measured spectrum rather than the speakers' technical specifications—and increasing the support level noticeably reduced the spread without compromising imaging accuracy. To me, the resulting bass felt both more substantial and tighter. Of course, the degree of "tightness" one prefers is a matter of taste. Ultimately, however, there is a limit to how much the spread can be reduced. If you don't want to replace your speakers with models offering better bass performance, placing your available subwoofers in asymmetrical positions can help. The rationale is that symmetrical placement within the room results in similar frequency responses—and thus similar dips—preventing the individual subwoofers from effectively supporting one another.
 
No, only the subs that go below 20. Only in the sub group itself, if some don't go below 20 separate into 2 groups.
The box is for the sub group…
I click the front speaker group… it will have the sub group on the bottom left to click the “infrasonic” for..
it has that for each speaker group… including the when I click on the sub… I think it’s to pass the infrasonics from each group to the sub… for example: if I don’t want the height channel to pass infrasonic to the subs… I’d leave it unchecked on that particular group.
 
The box is for the sub group…
I click the front speaker group… it will have the sub group on the bottom left to click the “infrasonic” for..
it has that for each speaker group… including the when I click on the sub… I think it’s to pass the infrasonics from each group to the sub… for example: if I don’t want the height channel to pass infrasonic to the subs… I’d leave it unchecked on that particular group.
Below 20 is uncontrolled as in it does what it wants regardless of the curve. My understanding is it won't send a below 20 signal to other speakers, but if you have huge mains that go below 20 add them to the infrasonic.

It's from a few videos, from dirac engineers. But who knows, one Dirac engineer contradicts himself in a month over a different setting.
 
Question… in ART there is an option for “infrasonic” bass… for the subwoofers on each group…,
L/r, center, backs etc and when the group is selected.. it has the subwoofer infrasonic option… even of course when the sub group is selected…
Should i enable infrasonic for the subs on all groups?

Looks like my memory is right...... From the Dirac help desk, link has more info.

How-to: Infra-bass bypass in ART
Problem formulation
Dirac Live ART implicitly enforces a steep high-pass filter at 20 Hz, with the consequence that any content below 20 Hz present in a recording would not make its way out to any of the speakers, including infra bass-capable subwoofers. For reference, neither Dirac Live Room Correction nor Bass Control would limit the amount of infra bass in the way that ART does.

Solution description
Dirac has implemented an optional “infra bass bypass”, enabled through a checkbox for each support channel group within each main channel group. It is intended to only become available when F-support Low (the low end of the support range) of a speaker group is lower than 21 Hz. Checking the box, which is optional, will then allow a low-passed versions of the inputs for that speaker group to pass through.

A user can make the checkbox available for a particular loudspeaker group by dragging the support range for that group down to 20 Hz. It must be stressed that this kind of manual override should only be done for speakers that have the capability to play below 20 Hz.

The target curve will be used as reference for infra bass level. All speakers that have been opted in for the infra bass bypass will receive an equal share with equal gain of the infra bass bypassed content, such that they sum up to the target curve level.

The infra bass bypass option will only be available to users with granted access to the “U4h infrabass” feature in their license.

Recommended use
The channel grouping made automatically by Dirac is based on meta data from the speaker configuration. Subwoofers will be automatically grouped together, even if they have very different specifications.

If subwoofers in fact have very different capabilities, it is recommended to separate them into two or more different channel groups. This will allow each group to maximise its performance without being limited by less capable individual speakers in the same group.

It is recommended to enable the infra bass bypass option on channel groups that can play down to 20 Hz.

It is recommended to not enable the infra bass option on channel groups that cannot play down to 20 Hz
 
Looks like my memory is right...... From the Dirac help desk, link has more info.

How-to: Infra-bass bypass in ART
Problem formulation
Dirac Live ART implicitly enforces a steep high-pass filter at 20 Hz, with the consequence that any content below 20 Hz present in a recording would not make its way out to any of the speakers, including infra bass-capable subwoofers. For reference, neither Dirac Live Room Correction nor Bass Control would limit the amount of infra bass in the way that ART does.

Solution description
Dirac has implemented an optional “infra bass bypass”, enabled through a checkbox for each support channel group within each main channel group. It is intended to only become available when F-support Low (the low end of the support range) of a speaker group is lower than 21 Hz. Checking the box, which is optional, will then allow a low-passed versions of the inputs for that speaker group to pass through.

A user can make the checkbox available for a particular loudspeaker group by dragging the support range for that group down to 20 Hz. It must be stressed that this kind of manual override should only be done for speakers that have the capability to play below 20 Hz.

The target curve will be used as reference for infra bass level. All speakers that have been opted in for the infra bass bypass will receive an equal share with equal gain of the infra bass bypassed content, such that they sum up to the target curve level.

The infra bass bypass option will only be available to users with granted access to the “U4h infrabass” feature in their license.

Recommended use
The channel grouping made automatically by Dirac is based on meta data from the speaker configuration. Subwoofers will be automatically grouped together, even if they have very different specifications.

If subwoofers in fact have very different capabilities, it is recommended to separate them into two or more different channel groups. This will allow each group to maximise its performance without being limited by less capable individual speakers in the same group.

It is recommended to enable the infra bass bypass option on channel groups that can play down to 20 Hz.

It is recommended to not enable the infra bass option on channel groups that cannot play down to 20 Hz
I read that. It doesn’t mention anything about
Enabling the pass through for the sub group while selecting the other speakers groups… there is the option to pass infrasonic to the subs on each group… including when the sub group is selected..
my understanding there will be no option to select infrasonic pass through without draggin the speaker low enough.., when I select height channel… boxes are greyed out but the sub group on the bottom left as in the pics in that guide… its there on each group
 
I read that. It doesn’t mention anything about
Enabling the pass through for the sub group while selecting the other speakers groups… there is the option to pass infrasonic to the subs on each group… including when the sub group is selected..
my understanding there will be no option to select infrasonic pass through without draggin the speaker low enough.., when I select height channel… boxes are greyed out but the sub group on the bottom left as in the pics in that guide… its there on each group
At the end... .
It is recommended to enable the infra bass bypass option on channel groups that can play down to 20 Hz.

It is recommended to not enable the infra bass option on channel groups that cannot play down to 20 Hz
 
At the end... .
It is recommended to enable the infra bass bypass option on channel groups that can play down to 20 Hz.

It is recommended to not enable the infra bass option on channel groups that cannot play down to 20 Hz
Then if a capable sub supports the group then the group can play down to 20Hz.
Using fronts as an example with a capable sub(s) supporting and the mains not capable of playing down to 20Hz, what happens? The supporting sub(s) provides the content the mains can’t play.
Same scenario but with the infra box checked, what happens? The supporting sub(s) provides the content the mains can’t play.
Same as traditional bass management in this regard.
Whether or not there’s much if any infrasonic bass sent to a channel other than the LFE so it makes any difference, would be my question.
 
Question… in ART there is an option for “infrasonic” bass… for the subwoofers on each group…,
L/r, center, backs etc and when the group is selected.. it has the subwoofer infrasonic option… even of course when the sub group is selected…
Should i enable infrasonic for the subs on all groups?

I select the LFE check box for every group, including the center channel which the Storm folks for some reason claim never to allow. Make yourself 2 presets and switch back and forth while listening. To my ears not having the LFE checked (for all groups) sounds like a trumpet with a mute inserted. I prefer the “open” sound.
 
Then if a capable sub supports the group then the group can play down to 20Hz.
Using fronts as an example with a capable sub(s) supporting and the mains not capable of playing down to 20Hz, what happens? The supporting sub(s) provides the content the mains can’t play.
Same scenario but with the infra box checked, what happens? The supporting sub(s) provides the content the mains can’t play.
Same as traditional bass management in this regard.
Whether or not there’s much if any infrasonic bass sent to a channel other than the LFE so it makes any difference, would be my question.
Is there ever anything lower than 25hz mixed into a channel other than the lfe group?
 
I select the LFE check box for every group, including the center channel which the Storm folks for some reason claim never to allow. Make yourself 2 presets and switch back and forth while listening. To my ears not having the LFE checked (for all groups) sounds like a trumpet with a mute inserted. I prefer the “open” sound.
This is exactly what I thought… I thought the box checked is passing the lfe to the subs for each channel… this isn’t in the documentation etc you’d think as expensive as this software is there would be some good documentation/videos etc explaining this stuff…they have very much dropped the ball with that… im still a little disappointed with the infrasonic bass in Art.. its not as good as in bass control.. but Art sounds better and has the same impact bass
 
This is exactly what I thought… I thought the box checked is passing the lfe to the subs for each channel…

Technically it is group not channel. I have all my channels/speakers in individual groups but the verbiage gets confusing. For instance I have 3 subs that get below 20Hz, I can just select one of those (channels) via check box to allow infra. I can do that for any or all groups. I prefer all 3 (channels) sub boxes checked for all groups, it does as explained a few posts back and drops the level of all 3 but the sound/feel is better than what looks better “on paper” which for me is just my biggest sub let loose.

All 3 subs cut loose

Image 9-13-26 at 5.08 PM.png


Big sub only cut loose

Image 9-13-26 at 5.09 PM.png


Everything plugged

Image 9-13-26 at 5.09 PM.png
 
@ThELiZ, could you please delete/edit your post below? It's still being referenced as gospel by AI chats and was even referenced by an ASR member as late as yesterday as true!

I agree, it is not absolutely necessarily I guess, but it is better to have it deleted. Case in point, I just questioned another Chatbot, AI Gemini/Google and it pointed right back to the information from that ChatGPT bot's incorrect information. Then I challenge it to search for credible info from Masimo, D+M and Dirac Live and eventually it came back with the following that I told it that would be copied/pasted on ASR.

Google/Gemini's response to the post that originated the incorrect information:

It doesn't mean this is 100% correct but at least look a lot better than what's in THELiZ's post that quoted ChatGPT.

Setting the Record Straight on Denon X3800H DSP and Dirac ART (Addressing the AI Rumors)
Following up on the recent discussion where a chatbot claimed the AVR-X3800H mutes rear surrounds or handles Dirac ART via an inferior, single-chip architecture compared to higher-end models—this information is entirely incorrect.
Let’s look directly at official Masimo / D+M technical documentation to clear up the confusion regarding silicon, architecture, and channel allocation.

1. The Silicon Reality: One Single Chip Across the Entire Lineup
The rumor that the X3800H has "one chip" while the X4800H or flagships have "two physical chips" is a complete myth.
Every single receiver in the current generation—from the entry-tier AVR-X3800H up to the flagship AVR-A1H and Marantz AV10—shares the exact same computational DSP core:
  • The Processor: They all use exactly one single (1x) Analog Devices "Griffin Lite XP" ADSP-21593 processor.
  • The Layout: The ADSP-21593 is inherently a dual-core chip containing two 32-bit SHARC+ floating-point DSP cores running at up to 1 GHz, alongside an ARM Cortex-A5 system core on a single piece of silicon.
  • The Source of Confusion: The internet (and subsequent AI scrapers) conflated "dual-core" with "two physical chips," or mistakenly compared them to older generations (like the X3700H or X6700H) which actually did use multiple separate, lower-spec processors (e.g., 2x ADSP-21573).

2. Hardware Architecture Comparison (Per D+M Internal Documentation)

AVR/AVP ModelDSP LayoutDAC ArchitectureMax Native Channels
AVR-X3800H1x ADSP-21593 (Dual-Core SHARC+)TI PCM5102A x 811.4 Processing
AVR-X4800H1x ADSP-21593 (Dual-Core SHARC+)TI PCM5102A x 811.4 Processing
AVR-A1H / AV101x ADSP-21593 (Dual-Core SHARC+)ESS ES9018K2M x 1015.4 Processing

3. Why the AI's "ART Channel Restrictions" Claim is Fake
The chatbot's claim that Dirac ART enforces a hard-coded limit of 7.1/7.2 playback and mutes rear surrounds or height layers on the X3800H is flat-out wrong.
  • Full 7.4.4 Playback: When Dirac ART is engaged on an 11-channel setup, all 11 speakers and subwoofers remain fully active for native playback content. Immersive Atmos object panning is completely unaffected.
  • The "Support Channel" Misconception: The confusion comes from Dirac's Support Channel matrix. Because small ceiling or rear surround speakers lack low-frequency extension, they are often restricted or attenuated from acting as dampeners (support nodes) to cancel out bass reflections from other main channels. They still play their own native audio perfectly—they just don't do the heavy lifting of room correction calculations for other speakers.

4. The Real Reason Behind Firmware Rollouts
Because raw computational silicon power is completely identical across these models, tier differences come down to software licensing, analog board layouts/DACs, and separate firmware code branches required to manage different native channel matrices (11 channels vs. 15 channels).
If you are experiencing silent rear surrounds on an X3800H layout, it is not a Dirac ART hardware limitation. Check your Denon Amp Assign settings (the X3800H can only process 11 channels if you route 2 channels to an external amplifier), your physical speaker terminals, or ensure your source content isn't a fixed-print 7.1.2 mix that naturally leaves those channels vacant.
 
@ThELiZ, could you please delete/edit your post below? It's still being referenced as gospel by AI chats and was even referenced by an ASR member as late as yesterday as true!

I just tried but the option is not there. Can we report the post to mods and get it deleted/edited.
 
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