Active Room Treatment (ART) by Dirac

[Nathan2823]

I would absolutely try it !

And i would also not use any pre eq on the subs, let ART sort it out
It actually makes it harder for ART

Thank ya.. I’ve been debating about the SVS auto eq.. the techs at SVS told me to run it before Dirac… that it makes it easier for Dirac since the auto eq
Is flattening the curve in the room

 

[levimax]

Thank ya.. I’ve been debating about the SVS auto eq.. the techs at SVS told me to run it before Dirac… that it makes it easier for Dirac since the auto eq
Is flattening the curve in the room

ART is MIMO which is a completely different system than the SVS auto EQ. Trying to combine the two systems will most likely result in reduced performance for ART. I would let ART do it's thing and have complete control over all the speakers.

Regarding adding in a different sub, my experience with DLBC and ART is that matched subs work much better than mixed subs. I know DIRAC is supposed to handle mixed subs well but I have not found that to be the case.

 

[a_ron]

Curious about opinions on this…
I’ll be running a Denon A10H … with Dirac live, bass control and art… I’ve been running a Onkyo rz70,
I’m currently running two SVS pb17 ultras in opposite corners in the room, one in the front right, one in the back left… they have been sounding amazing with the Onkyo and bass control, I tune them with SVS auto eq then run Dirac. I have a SVS pb 3000, I’m debating about putting it in the back right corner, it doesn’t support the SVS auto eq, I know in Art to make sure it’s in its own sub group from the other two etc. What I want an opinion on is do you think adding that third sub would benefit the sound or possibly hurt the sound and just stick with the two matched Pb17s… thank you!!

As already said... Don't bother with the SVS EQ, and yes, use the 3rd sub.

Those three corners might not be optimal positions for those 3 subs. You might want to try different positions and measure what gives you the best frequency response and decay control with ART

Also, use that 4th sub channel! A used pb 3000 is probably not too expensive The more subs, in diverse locations, the better ART can do it's job of dealing with room modes and decay.

Thank ya.. I’ve been debating about the SVS auto eq.. the techs at SVS told me to run it before Dirac… that it makes it easier for Dirac since the auto eq
Is flattening the curve in the room

I'm guessing that person does not understand what ART is doing. The SVS EQ might actually be limiting what ART is able to do.

 

[EWL5]

I'm guessing that person does not understand what ART is doing. The SVS EQ might actually be limiting what ART is able to do.

Or the SVS rep may just be justifying the SVS EQ's raison d'etre, whether it's to a captive audience or new customer.

I have found owners previously used to external EQ of any kind having the toughest time understanding ART...

 

[smygolf]

Thank ya.. I’ve been debating about the SVS auto eq.. the techs at SVS told me to run it before Dirac… that it makes it easier for Dirac since the auto eq
Is flattening the curve in the room

I have a Great pic on how ART and support works
ART does not use peq to do what it does in normal sense

My room has a huge mode at 35hz and huge null at 55hz
And it is clearly visible on every support ch and still the combined response is flat
1: Left plus all the suport ch combined
2: Only left
3: Center support
4: Right support
5: Sub1 support
6: Sub2 support
7: Sub3 support

 

[kemmler3D]

The SVS EQ might actually be limiting what ART is able to do.

Very likely. Normal PEQ cuts output to deal with peaks. A good idea if you are only using EQ.

My understanding of ART is that it uses cancellation in free air, which relies on having sufficient output at the problem frequencies... so if you are trying to use ART to get rid of a mode, the last thing you should do is notch that frequency with EQ.

 

[SoundsGood64]

At least sub1 has good output in the 50-60 Hz range where the dip is, so I think ART will be able to improve a lot.

I have only experiment with my desktop 2.1 and even with the very small speakers and subwoofer, ART managed to improve the dip versus BC only.

I could have tweaked that filter to flatten the curve much more but I like it the way it is now so left it alone. You have 4 subs and more capable speakers than mine so you can expect ART to do a lot more.

View attachment 554669


Found one that appeared slightly different but was done on a different day so it is expected:

View attachment 554673

View attachment 554674

@peng, is your L+R crossover to subwoofer around 103hz? It looks like ART is doing a good job phase-aligning your sub and L+R.

 

[ASharma]

I missed one thing, you have a 30dB scale, that aint much
Try to sweep at +85dB and see if the 2 bumps also goes up in volume
And use 50-60dB scale

This is a pretty darn good result, sweep is a bit higher then yours and 50dB scale
View attachment 556463

Got rid of it. I have 2 sub groups, group 8 and group 9. Within group 8 AI tells me because the support level was set to -18 for the subs themselves within the sub group, it was muddying things up at 30 Hz. AI said to set the support level to -1 for the subs within the first sub group and allow the second sub group to provide all the cancellation for the first sub group. Viola!

 

[a_ron]

Got rid of it. I have 2 sub groups, group 8 and group 9. Within group 8 AI tells me because the support level was set to -18 for the subs themselves within the sub group, it was muddying things up at 30 Hz. AI said to set the support level to -1 for the subs within the first sub group and allow the second sub group to provide all the cancellation for the first sub group. Viola!

View attachment 556598

What AI model and effort level are you using? My first thought is... that model is just guessing.

With all due respect, I'm guessing something else changed, whether you realized it or not. Or maybe I'm wrong and I'll learn something new today

 

[ASharma]

What AI model and effort level are you using? My first thought is... that model is just guessing.

With all due respect, I'm guessing something else changed, whether you realized it or not. But maybe I'm missing something and I'll learn something new today

Simply using Gemini within Google…I hammered it to death until it finally got something right…Here is why Gemini says it works…

 

[smygolf]

Simply using Gemini within Google…I hammered it to death until it finally got something right…Here is why Gemini says it works…

View attachment 556613

Very interesting and not a solution i ever thought would work !

Is it possible to show us the support lvl on the subs posted in Dirac ?
Just print screen and paste

 

[ASharma]

Here are the sub settings for my main sub group

 

[peng]

@peng, is your L+R crossover to subwoofer around 103hz? It looks like ART is doing a good job phase-aligning your sub and L+R.

Not really sure which one that was, but 103 looks like this:

 

[smygolf]

Here are the sub settings for my main sub group

I was thinking something like this
LFE is marked and i hoover over the blue Sub1 with the cursor
A blue trace appears

Same thing but subwoofer 2
Green trace

You can do that on ever ch and see support
Here is how much support Center gives front left

 

[ASharma]

I was thinking something like this
LFE is marked and i hoover over the blue Sub1 with the cursor
A blue trace appears
View attachment 556713



Same thing but subwoofer 2
Green trace
View attachment 556714


You can do that on ever ch and see support
Here is how much support Center gives front left
View attachment 556716

Sub 1, my main sub, in group 8

Sub 2, also in Group 8

Sub 3, group 9, providing support to main sub group 8 along with mains and surrounds also providing support to Group 8

 

[smygolf]

Sub 1, my main sub, in group 8

View attachment 556778
Sub 2, also in Group 8

View attachment 556779
Sub 3, group 9, providing support to main sub group 8 along with mains and surrounds also providing support to Group 8

View attachment 556780

You aint have much boost in the bass and Art does its thing at 100hz, i have never seen such a dip but your waterfall was excellent

 

[ASharma]

You aint have much boost in the bass and Art does its thing at 100hz, i have never seen such a dip but your waterfall was excellent

Does this make sense? Most of the boosting that is required is at higher frequencies so the Mains and surrounds handle that duty to flatten the curve. For lower frequencies its mainly cuts that are required...

 

[smygolf]

Does this make sense? Most of the boosting that is required is at higher frequencies so the Mains and surrounds handle that duty to flatten the curve. For lower frequencies its mainly cuts that are required...

It depends on your taste/target curve
Most of us likes a slight rise in the lower frequencys
And as long at the lvl calibration is done correctly and your subs can handle it a 10dB boost is ok

Something to read inc a clip

https://www.dirac.com/resources/target-curve

 

[napfkuchen]

It seems I had been too cautious with the support level until now. Significantly raising it and also (partially) utilizing the rear and height speakers for this purpose has narrowed the spread somewhat. Here are two overlays as examples:

front right:

subwoofer:

support settings:

With these settings, I do not perceive any disadvantages regarding localization compared to the recommendations in the DIRAC guide.
To further reduce spread and reverberation, additional subwoofers on the rear wall are probably necessary, since the speakers/subwoofers with low lower cutoff frequencies are all positioned at the front.

What are your support settings and experiences/recommendations?

 

[smygolf]

It seems I had been too cautious with the support level until now. Significantly raising it and also (partially) utilizing the rear and height speakers for this purpose has narrowed the spread somewhat. Here are two overlays as examples:

front right:

subwoofer:

support settings:
View attachment 556934

With these settings, I do not perceive any disadvantages regarding localization compared to the recommendations in the DIRAC guide.
To further reduce spread and reverberation, additional subwoofers on the rear wall are probably necessary, since the speakers/subwoofers with low lower cutoff frequencies are all positioned at the front.

What are your support settings and experiences/recommendations?

What speakers do you use in the setup ?